Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I am exercising the right I defended for almost 25 years. If you have any problems with that, then And I'm exercising my right to the First Amendment which I have defended (and continue to) for the last 17 years. I disagree with your view of the Second Amendment. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Really?! Joking, right?! I am all about the second amendment, but is all of that necessary? I'm curious of the purpose of such extensive firepower. Obviously, firearm ownership lines have to drawn somewhere. Whether it's semi-automatic handguns, fully-automatic rifles, or personally owned A-10s, there comes a point where the right to bear arms ends. Just like well-intentioned evangelicals, over-the-top radio talk show hosts, or radical political activists put-off the general public with their voices, responsible gun owners can be a lot more successful advocating the Second Amendment by quietly promoting safe and responsible gun usage than by owning, bragging about, or encouraging ownership of military standard weapons. No private citizen is going to fend off any tyrannical government with any amount of firepower, and for the safety of my family, I prefer just enough firepower to get lodged in an intruder, but not go through my baby's bedroom wall. I am a Constitutionally-minded conservative, but bragging about the size of your "gun" in the aftermath of events like yesterday's shootings does more to hurt Second Amendment rights than help. I'm not sayin', but... I'm just sayin'. And I am just capturing your comments so we all know what a fucking idiot you are! And I'm exercising my right to the First Amendment which I have defended (and continue to) for the last 17 years. I disagree with your view of the Second Amendment. Well, you have every right to be a fucking idiot, the First Amendment protects that; but care to explain why you think those rights are absolute while there should be limitations on the ones expressed in the Second?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) I guess we're fortunate that you're wrong. There is more than enough regulation on firearms in this country, and it's convoluted and confusing. I'm sure what M2 expressed is justifiable, because every time something like this happens the anti-gun crowd lashes out and tries to add more confusing and unnecessary regulation. There is already enough infringement on the Bill of Rights. If I'm wrong, please explain the merits of unlimited gun rights. And don't use the "criminals will win" argument. A .45 bullet will drop a bad guy just as quickly as a 30mm HEI round, if the user is proficient, of course. And I am just capturing your comments so we all know what a ######ing idiot you are! Spoken like the true intellectual you are! I'm also very intimidated by your "capturing" skills. I've voiced my opinion. You've made it clear that any real discussion about this topic is impossible, so why should we waste time exercising your vast vocabulary of four-letter words in a series of pointless back-and-forths? Well, you have every right to be a ######ing idiot, the First Amendment protects that; but care to explain why you think those rights are absolute while there should be limitations on the ones expressed in the Second?!? The First Amendment has limits. Inciting mayhem, for instance. One more thing... It's seemingly always the guys who have never actually done "something," whether that "something" be getting laid, flying airplanes, or being violent (killin' squirrels don't count), that talk the most/act the biggest about it. Just something I've noticed... Edited January 10, 2011 by Pancake 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) SNAP, you don't know me very well... Thank God for that... And, it's "Crew Dawg," thank you very much... Edited January 10, 2011 by Pancake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 One more thing... It's seemingly always the guys who have never actually done "something," whether that "something" be getting laid, flying airplanes, or being violent (killin' squirrels don't count), that talk the most/act the biggest about it. Just something I've noticed... Is that right? Who the fuck are you again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Is that right? Who the ###### are you again? Pancake. It says that every time I post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alarm Red Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Tell me again of your disgust for me for pondering the very realistic consequences from this numbnut's action? Instead of saying "the victims of this senseless act are in my thoughts," you said "this will probably affect my ability to own guns, but I sure hope it doesn't. I do regret the shooting, but really the gun owners are going to be affected. Although I hope not." I'm embarrassed for you, that's all. It doesn't really matter since this thread stopped being about the shooting a few pages back though. According to the news (so who really knows), that piece of shit shot all 30+ rounds before being tackled. I'm sorry, but as Helo said, if a CCW citizen had been there, this guy would have been down long before he fired off 30 rounds...of course assuming the citizen carrying wasn't hit immediately. Regardless, this tragedy proves the utility of responsible CCW citizens and NOT the opposite (gun control). The good news is that Arizona does not issue CCW permits. As it should be. 47 more states to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The good news is that Arizona does not issue CCW permits. As it should be. 47 more states to go. 2 more states and DC to go IMO. And Arizona does issue CCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The good news is that Arizona does not issue CCW permits. As it should be. 47 more states to go. You're high. Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alarm Red Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) 2 more states and DC to go IMO. And Arizona does issue CCW. I stand corrected. Arizona does still issue them, but they are no longer required (like VT and AK). So why would you take the class? If you want reciprocity with almost anywhere, get a Utah license, it's easy and doesn't require you to ever go to Utah. If 47 more states had constitutional carry, I'd be happy. You're high. Chuck Good one. Edited January 10, 2011 by Alarm Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It all makes me glad I picked up a Bulgarian 75-round drum for my AKs a few weeks ago, as well as a 1260-round can of Romanian ammo at the gun show yesterday! Every time gun control nuts pipe up, prices follow! M2, Please don't take offense, but I don't see the point of letting citizens own assault weapons. I fully agree with gun ownership for hunting, home defense, and self protection. Your well laid out argument concerning CCW is as relevant as my theory that he would have been stopped much earlier had he only had a revolver. Can you name an incident where a home-owner has defended himself more ably with an assualt weapon against an intruder than with an ordinary pistol? I remember Columbine (12 dead): "During the shootings, Harris carried a 12 gauge Savage-Springfield 67H pump-action shotgun (serial no. A232432) and a Hi-Point 995 Carbine 9 mm semi-automatic rifle with thirteen 10-round magazines, fired 96 times. Harris's other weapon, the shotgun, was fired a total of 25 times. Harris committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his shotgun. Klebold carried a 9 mm Intratec TEC-9 semi-automatic handgun manufactured by Navegar, Inc. with one 52-, one 32-, and one 28-round magazine. He also carried a 12 gauge Stevens 311D double barreled sawed-off shotgun (serial no. A077513). Klebold's primary weapon was the TEC-9 handgun, which was fired a total of 55 times. Klebold would later commit suicide via a shot to the left temple with the TEC-9." I remember Georgia Tech (32 dead): "Cho used two firearms during the attacks: a .22-caliber Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun and a 9 mm semi-automatic Glock 19 handgun." Where do we go from here...more guns in the hands of responsible citizens...less guns in the hands of all citizens...? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfargin Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 M2, Please don't take offense, but I don't see the point of letting citizens own assault weapons. Thankfully it doesn't matter what you "see" or don't see as to what the 2nd amendment grants (actually I would argue it just confirms a right we have/had already). "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Exactly what part of "shall not be infringed" do people not get?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Good one. Eh, well - saying I disagree with you is boring. Creativity is mo betta'... Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Instead of saying "the victims of this senseless act are in my thoughts," you said "this will probably affect my ability to own guns, but I sure hope it doesn't. I do regret the shooting, but really the gun owners are going to be affected. Although I hope not." I'm embarrassed for you, that's all. It doesn't really matter since this thread stopped being about the shooting a few pages back though. The good news is that Arizona does not issue CCW permits. As it should be. 47 more states to go. Those that have a personal connection to the event or victims will have a very different view on the incident than I will. Acknowledging a bad situation, but not pouring out essentially feigned grief (I don't know any of the victims personally) is not good enough for you? Wondering how the over-reaction to the event is going to affect me and my ability to protect my family is embarrassing? I shall try to live with the approbation. It will be difficult, but I'll try. God bless you for your universal view. I am all about the second amendment, but is all of that necessary? I'm curious of the purpose of such extensive firepower. Who are you to decide if "all that is necessary?" How about if I just want it? (*cue what about RPGs or tactical nuke arguments...) The illegal act of this headcase is the issue, not those who exercise their freedoms responsibly. Hint: it's illegal to murder someone. That didn't stop this idiot. Restricting even more those of us who decide what we want to have is not going to undo this tragedy or stop future ones. Ever b1tch about Big Blue's penchant for making everyone wear diapers for the stupidity of one? Edited January 10, 2011 by brickhistory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scooby Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I thought the gun control argument was settled years ago? I'm as bleeding heart as they come but I'm also a CCW holder and fully support the right of my fellow citizens to both conceal and open carry. I just don't even see how there is a political argument to be made here. The 2nd Amendment is fairly straight forward, regardless of the placement of some commas...the intent is fairly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Pancake. It says that every time I post. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The ONLY limit on the 2nd Amendment is that you should have to have sufficient room to use whatever weapons you possess without bothering others. Want a nuke? Better move to central Nevada. Any "line" regarding weapons ownership will be arbitrary and based on someone's opinion on what they think is good for you. People (read: idiots) tend to associate violent acts with the instruments used. Do we credit the scalpel for a successful surgery? Do we credit the hammer for a house? Do we credit paintbrush for the mona lisa? Yes the tools make the work possible, but without the operator, those tools are just inanimate objects sitting on the table. Objects do not possess motivations, or the means to operate themselves. Just like we fault the builder when a house is built all fuckered up, we need to properly place fault for violent crimes. The shooter is 100% responsible for this, and should be treated accordingly. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I saw this sticker on the bumper of a Subaru this weekend: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The ONLY limit on the 2nd Amendment is that you should have to have sufficient room to use whatever weapons you possess without bothering others. Want a nuke? Better move to central Nevada. Any "line" regarding weapons ownership will be arbitrary and based on someone's opinion on what they think is good for you. People (read: idiots) tend to associate violent acts with the instruments used. Do we credit the scalpel for a successful surgery? Do we credit the hammer for a house? Do we credit paintbrush for the mona lisa? Yes the tools make the work possible, but without the operator, those tools are just inanimate objects sitting on the table. Objects do not possess motivations, or the means to operate themselves. Just like we fault the builder when a house is built all ######ered up, we need to properly place fault for violent crimes. The shooter is 100% responsible for this, and should be treated accordingly. Blaming a gun for this bastards actions (millions of US gun owners did not kill anybody yesterday) is like blaming forks for obese women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Iraq and Afghanistan should think about Cell Phone Control legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Any "line" regarding weapons ownership will be arbitrary and based on someone's opinion on what they think is good for you. Like this opinion... The ONLY limit on the 2nd Amendment is that you should have to have sufficient room to use whatever weapons you possess without bothering others. Edited January 10, 2011 by Pancake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) **Post modified in respect of unnamed contributor's feelings...** No one in this thread has called for more gun legislation. Grandstanding politicians, yes, but no one in this thread. The reality is that 4 or 5 people think their opinions in support of unlimited gun ownership are sacrosanct while anything else is ludicrous. Reminds me of a room full of these guys... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N2E93VzQSA Note: NSFW breast feeding video link also on page. Edited January 10, 2011 by Pancake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 A cop was killed in Baltimore this past weekend while breaking up a chick fight outside a bar. A by-stander and/or another cop killed him and another by-stander. While I do regret the death of the innocent victims in Tucson, especially the little girl, not one mention of this cop's death in the line of duty. Or the guys doing the job overseas who won't be coming home. Ever. Aren't they worthy of the attention being heaped upon this tragedy? Not one word beyond the local media and even that is buried in the middle of the paper/broadcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 No one in this thread has called for more gun legislation. I didn't say they did. WTFO? You sure your name isn't really Tumbleweed or Random Thought or Super Dumb Ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Children...there is a Gun Talk thread somewhere on these forums, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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