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Several people I know were wondering what would happen if they turned down the promotion or went out of their way to not get promoted, and were then forced out prior to their 10 years. Can they still get a job with the guard or reserves....? I can see it now... people scrambling to do ASBC by correspondence to "earn" an ASBC in residence slot. I'm sure Robin Olds would be thrilled.

1. Your original logic was that as an officer, we should be supporting the uniform queep because we set the standard. Not going along with the uniform Nazi attitude means we're poor leaders. If anyone is going to "uphold standards", as you claim is so critically important, then who would be more important than the Wing/CC? You say he "owns the base", which means you seem to think that because he's an O-6 he can now do as he pleases. If that's the case, then I'm a FGO and I can do as I please. Why should all other officers O-5 and below allow, tolerate and encourage uniform Nazism, but O-6 and above can wear their uniform however they want? I'm not trying to get into a logic contest with you. I think uniform queep is minor potatoes, and anyone focusing on it too much has their priorities ed up...which is my point...that O-6 I mentioned has his priorities squarely on getting the mission done and taking care of his people, not with minor uniform infractions. At the end of the day, if a guy has his flight suit sleeves rolled up and the mission got done and people got taken care of, does it really matter? 2. I love it when people in the AIR Force try to make the connection that pilots are a "minority" and question why are operators in charge. It has ZERO to do with how many of us there are. It has everything to do with what our branch's primary mission is. We are the AIR component of our nation's military. Sure, we do things like space and cyber warfare, but those two missions aren't the defining reason why we exist as a separate service. Any other branch could absorb cyber warfare or even space and call it their own. For convenience those misisons were given to the Air Force. But the reason why our AIR Force exists as a stand-alone branch is because we operate our nation's strategic bombing capability, tactical interdiction capability, strategic airlift capability, the vast majority of our aerial refueling capability, nearly all the tactical airlift capability, and a large chunk of the airborne ISR capability. Take close note to the titles of those various sub-missions...there's a lot of AIR in all of them. Meaning they require OPS to execute, and MX to generate. So yeah, despite being only a percentage of our total USAF strength, the bag-wearers and the wrench turners are the heart and soul of the AIR Force. So when you ask "why are pilots (or ops, really) in charge of the Air Force", you just asked a question that underlines all the concerns we have about the focus of our USAF. I'd like to give you a different perspective. I wasn't always a pilot and officer in the Air Force. At one point, I was an enlisted engineer in the Army. Not flight engineer, but construction engineer. I enlisted as an E-1 in 1992, and for four years I drove construction equipment. I then went on to become a Warrant Officer in the Army and flew Hueys (hence my screen name). Never in my 8 years in the Army did I see an enlisted Army soldier stop an officer and question their uniform, much less even be rude about it or question their integrity (as has happened to myself and many others over the years in the USAF). I might have mentioned to my platoon leader (a LT) that he left his hat behind in the office, but it would have only been a quick courtesy...it NEVER came out as a directive or even as a "correction". Additionally, despite being an engineer and also an aviator, I NEVER lost sight of the fact that the core of our Army were the combat arms career fields...the infantry, artillery and armor units. All we did was support them in one way or another. I never chafed at the idea that infantry and armor officers ran the Army...hell, that's what we did...that was our mission! To have a bunch of engineers or even aviators running the Army would have seemed idiotic. Now I'm not going to say the Army was perfect, they have their own set of issues and cultural problems. But they did NOT suffer from an identity crisis over "what do we do as a service", and all the soldiers knew the difference between an M1 MBT and an M2 BFV. We were all trained in basic infantry tactics, even if the last time we ever did any of that was in Basic Training. Fast forward and I'm in the USAF now. I've been yelled at when a First Shirt barged into my dorm at a deployed location and commanded me to sweep my hallway (along with all the other Captains and Majors). I've had a LT yell at me for not saluting him (I was in PT gear)...granted he was taken aback when I told him that Captains don't salute LTs, but see where all this queep Nazism stuff leads? He was indoctrinated into that culture, where ROTC-style queep IS your job. I've had a MSgt Pro-super yell at me to "get those shades of your head", despite the fact that I had oak leaves on my shoulder. I've had cops hold me and my toddler-aged kids at gunpoint despite me wearing a flight suit and line badge (and yes, I had permission to have them on the flight line). I could end there and say it was all about inconvenience and feeling slighted because of my rank. But I'll go a step farther and tell you that despite all this heavy attention on shirt tucking, color of shoes and socks, having sunglasses on your head, etc etc, I've had tons of examples where I was unable to get the mission done because people simply didn't want to try, or they gave me one of 69 excuses why it couldn't get done. Like the time I returned to pick up Army troops trying to catch their rotator home only to be denied landing because our PPR had "expired"...never mind the fact that it was our third trip up there that day (same call sign, etc...but our last arrival into their airfield was a few minutes beyond the Zulu day and they wouldn't let us land). Troops missed their flight home because of that idiotic call. Guys that had spent 18 months away from family had to wait longer because someone in base ops at Base X decided that, despite knowing it was the same ing C-130 that had been in there twice already, the "PPR expired"...as if we're no longer part of the good guys now. I've been told after landing with min fuel at a deployed location (got to min fuel because the airspace closed and we were forced to hold for nearly an hour) that we couldn't get fuel because USAF aircraft aren't allowed to get gas (it was a USMC field). That came straight from the USAF-ran ATOC. I pleaded saying we only needed about 4,000 lbs to make it to our destination without running out, and they said "you have to leave with what you got", except what we had wasn't enough. I had to spend hours calling people at AMD, who then went AROUND our own USAF guys and called the Marines directly, who then provided us with 4,000 lbs of gas. According to the Marines..."we have no problem providing fuel in emergency situations...we just don't want to be used routinely". So it was our own USAF shoes that wanted to send a Herk back out without enough gas to make it home. Nice. Or how about the time I was advising the Iraqis at the IqAF base next door, and on our way to work one day, we discovered the ECP/Gate we used to get to work was now closed. The only other way to the IqAF base was to drive the loooong way around...all the way to the North end of Sather, then back south past Camp Stryker. We queried the Sather folks, and they said they wanted to close it off because they were having too many problems with "ramp incursions" and it posed a security risk. We later found out that ALL of the "ramp incursions" were being committed by their very own Security Forces troops driving onto the ramp and parallel taxiway without clearance and without FOD checks...thanks for that, so you decide to screw all the CAFTT guys. Got it. Not a single example of any security being at risk, other than our very own "security" folks breaking their own damn rules. I can go on and on and on with stories were shoes impeded the mission, and gave us excuses like "that's not my job" or "we aren't allowed to do that" despite the fact that not doing it would result in mission failure. I tell ya, the USAF is really big on "The Process", and "The Mission" is secondary. If you tried to get the mission done and followed the process, and the process didn't allow you to complete the mission, well, that sucks but it's ok. But if you got the mission done but didn't use the process, God help you. Anyways, this rant is over, I've got other things to do tonight.

Intel 3 yrs old is still pretty good, seems the guys in the onesies bitch about the same thing.....repeatedly. It's actually entertaining.

Apples and oranges bro, I know you aren't that stupid to think that's in the same league as dress and appearance. I think this one goes both ways, I have seen Es and Os regardless of AFSC avoiding each other in let's say the BX parking lot so that they don't have to salute. These are more than likely the same people that go running indoors when they hear retreat start to play.

You know, that happens....what the Major did, regardless if he is a Comm officer or whatever, he was well in his right as a Major to do what he did. If he hurt your feelings, then it is what it is, you work in a military institution. He could have a little more nice about it I agree with you there, and understood your situation, hell one of your buddies could have hid or frozen your hat. I am rather shocked an officer treated another officer that way.

If I saw something out of place with the Wing/CC I would politely mention it, I surely would get an attitude and jump him for it, use your head. And why do pilots run the majority of the AF? Rhetorical question so to speak?

Huey, Good rant, and understood on this end. I think the main root of all these issues is class hostility and the idea of "are nots". But that is not what drew me out, the damn near racist tone of some of the comments about 'shoe clerks' is what compelled me to speak out. At the end of the day if people learn some manners, customs and courtesies and just realized we are all on the same team.

Yea.....about that, see spot 52 is a ramp location, now if it was bld #xx.....that's an outbound, so late take off? No. Again, check the context. And I'll be damned if that storm front hasn't moved! Still lightning w/ in 5nm, and a wind gust advisory too? It's gonna be awhile..... Spot on, and the point I have been trying to make.

sorry that trans where you have been has not been up to par. yes, there are some dispatchers and drivers that suck. they hate their jobs, so they spread the grief around by making people that dont deserve their stupidity suffer. thanks for that disclaimer though. there are good trans out there, just like there are bomb diggity flyers that make air crew just that much better with their attitude and thanks. but you may not realize that not many flyers can do their job without trans. they arent just air crew drivers, they deliver parts for the planes (that you fly), help bring in base supplies (that you consume), make sure there are vehicles in remote locations (that you borrow), and do convoys across iraq and kuwait. and that line about being uncool was not to piss you off...but to be called uncool is close to being called unimportant. and the statements above prove that trans is more than a taxi service. look up convoys, and see what were trained to do. cool or uncool, trans is needed. maybe not by you, but by alot of bases out there.

Nah, never work. Hey I got an idea....why not get your buddy Capt Marz to drive for you? Or is he too busy at Quiznos keeping the customers safe?

child of scorn, i am not an alias to Jango...i would have to have different plumbing for one. plus, its not fair for flyers to become irate when they arent picked up just as their jet has landed...phone calls have to be made, and the last ones to be called is the bus. dont get mad at us, get mad at the ones who dont dial the numbers fast enough. sad you cant do your job without the people with the "uncool" jobs. if it was up to me, all ya'll would walk your @$$es to your jets. we dont expect a handshake or a pat on the head, but a "thanks for the ride" is alot better than, "we called 10 minutes ago". blame base ops or command post, not the people who get out there within 5 minutes of getting the call to pick you up.