Army (Warrant Officer) to ANG transfer

[Guest CavGuy]

Hey there. I'm an Apache guy too. The "Scarlet A" (A model) is starting to fade and I really don't want to replace it with the "Scarlet D" (Longbow). I thought all hope was lost for getting into the AFR/ANG but now I find there is no age limit. Don't tell the rest of the Army until I get in! ;-) Any info you can give me on units or aircraft to aim for would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Vince,

From one Apache guy to another, it can be done. I just did it and I am 27 with similar experiances. Feel free to pm me or email me at magicatc@msn.com. I will show you what worked for me.

Edited January 6, 2008 by CavGuy

[Guest korouva]

What is the age limit for an Army warrant aviator to move to the ANG for a pilot slot?

I'm thinking of going Army Warrant because I'm too old to apply for UPT. Also the Texas ARNG needs warrants officers much more than officer aviators.

If this info has already been posted, my apologies for not being able to find it.

[Victory103]

There are waivers for age. What source to you have that states that unit needs WO's? In the Reserve/NG service, many WO complete their degrees and transfer to RLO's for the nice retirement paygrade change. There have been many RLO's to give up their commission just to fly as WO, which as you know is our primary job. Several threads on here have great info for going from AD to Reserves/NG. I'm AD now, but looking to continue NG when I retire in 4 yrs. In your case, I would start talking to the unit, see if they have IERW (Flight School) slots, and look at going that route if you want the ARNG track, but keep your commission. Depends on your age, most of the waivers are case by case, but I have seen some slightly "older" students at Ft. Rucker. Hell, since the WO program is high school to flight school, I was considered "old" at 28.

[Guest captnmo]

I'm a 28 year old Warrant officer and will be 29 in Nov. UH-60, OH-58 pilot with the Army Guard. I was previously commissioned as a 1LT, resigned my commission because if I was going to stay in the Army, I'm going warrant. However, I have my degree and am interested in transferring to the Air Guard/Reserves. I'm also a regional airline pilot with over 3400 hours, 3000 fixed-wing. I'm currently three years into my six year obligation to the Guard from flight school.

My question is, is an inter-service transfer a legitimate means of transfering my committment or am I going to just piss off my command when (if) I get hired by the Air Force when I ask for a transfer and make life miserable for myself? Ideally, I'd like to complete my committment, but then I'm 31 years old. Can I transfer at 31 or am I past the age limit? Can I "revive" my commission or will I have to go to OTS? My understanding is that since I'm a "military aviator," I do not have to compete for a UPT slot and would be considered a fixed-wing transition. Is that correct and does that affect the age requirements?

My biggest concern is my committment. Like I said, I'd like to complete my obligation, but I do want to make the switch and am concerned about the age requirement. Any help is appreciated. Personal opinions are helpful, references to regulations and personal experiences are even better. Thanks!

-M-

[Lord B]

I am a prior Army Commissioned guy as well as a prior warrant. I just got hired with a C-130 unit in the area and was 5 years into my ADSO from flight school. NGB gave the OK for me to transfer and continue my ADSO with the AF. I was very forward with my command with what I was doing and that made the interview process a little easier. I am just finishing the paperwork process then looking forward to the FWQ course. Let me know if I can help.

Karl

I didnt answer your questions. You can re commission with NO OTS. I did it before I left the Army. There is no age waiver since you are already a rated pilot. I attached the reg regarding converting your Army wings to AF Rotor Only. The biggest step is finding a unit to hire you. I was close on several occasions, but finally I got hired. Hopefully this helps.

Karl

Pages 18-25 AFI11-402.pdf

[Guest captnmo]

Kind of yeah. it sounds a little douchy of me when you put it that way, which is why I'm asking the question here. I really want to know if it's an option. It's not a plan. I want to know if the rules for WOs are different than regular commissioned officers when it comes to transfers between Army and AF.

BTW I'm already an AF officer. I'll be happy to fly in either service and may end up loving the Army if I switch over, but as of now I'm partial to the AF and would like to know if I have the option to come back if I switch to WO. Does becoming a warrant officer mean you resign your commission? If it will complicate things much more I'll push to keep my commission, but it will decrease my chances of selection for aviation.

Korouva,

Yes, in order to become a warrant officer, you would need to resign your commission. I have not been AF but was commissioned in the Army Guard. I am now a warrant and if you're going to fly in the Army, being a warrant is the only way to go....unless of course you like the management aspect of being an officer. I'm not saying anything bad about their job, it's very necessary, but.....there's a lot of commissioned officers that become warrants....that's all I'm going to say.

I am however looking into transfering to the AF. Now that I look into it, I kinda wish I kept my commission for the sake of transferring to the AF. But I believe there are ways to regain it if you just resigned it. If you find out, let me know because I'd be interested to know as well.

[Guest Ammotimmy]

Would like some info on transfering to the Air Guard. 35 yrs old Iowa Army National Guard Warrant Officer would like to transfer to the Iowa

Air National. Does anyone have any info on this? Can it be done? I have a degree, can I be commisioned in the Air Guard?

[Guest Hueypilot812]

There are ways to go from ARNG to ANG in your case. But you need to investigate the specifics and go from there, and it depends on what you want to do. If you want to fly for the Iowa ANG, I doubt you'll have much luck. First, there are age limits for commissioning (but I've known several people in their mid 30s to get a commission), and second there are limitations on attending Fixed-Wing Qual.

The smoothest transition I can think of is to find a way to get a direct commission in the ARNG, then transfer to an ANG unit that operates helicopters (NY or AK). Trying to pursue a commission in the ANG will present its own roadblocks, along with getting a FWQ slot. I won't say it's impossible, but it will be difficult at best.

I went from the LA ARNG (UH-1 pilot) to the active-duty USAF. That was possible because I made the decision to apply when I was 25, versus 35. In any case, talk to the unit you're interested in flying for...and good luck.

[jcollins]

The age limit for commissioning is 39 with prior service.

[BigFreddie]

If you end up transitioning to fixed wing the AF will make you got through the fixed-wing qual course. That will eat up about a year of your life before you even get to the ANG unit's aircraft. And passing FWQ is not guaranteed either - there is a definite difference in Army and Air Force flying.

BF

[Guest Hueypilot812]

There is a definite difference between the Army and Air Force. That being said, so long as you have a good attitude and are ready to adapt to a degree (AF flying is more micromanaged), you'll do just fine. There have been Army folks who washed out of FWQ/UPT, but those examples I've heard of did so because of attitude or they simply quit. I attended the full-up UPT syllabus about 4 years after I went through IERW and I did just fine. I had no problems whatsoever. Learn the differences and press on.

[Guest jwce21]

Thanks so much ahead of time to all those who reach out to help those of us trying to join you!

So here's my situation:

- Former active duty CW2 UH60 pilot in the Army.

- Last military flight Nov 05.

- Currently civilian EMS helicopter pilot in Alaska.

- 31 yrs old, 32 in May.

- Going to school full-time online and finishing degree in August.

- 2600+ TT (mostly helos), 200+ fixed wing on a private rating

I'm interested in flying for the ANG in Alaska (or a handful of other states potentially). Would love to make the leap over to the fixed-wing side of things in C-130s or C-17s, but would be thrilled to hop into an HH-60 as well if that's the only way back into a green flight suit. I've contacted a couple of folks from the community that have pointed me to this forum. So I throw it to you!

1. Do I need a UPT slot as a rated Army pilot to fly fixed-wing? What about HH-60s?

2. Can I apply to a board prior to receiving my degree?

3. How does all this work out with regard to my age? (I'm thinking if UPT is required, this is a long shot)

Thanks so much for any help, guidance, or encouragement!

[Lord B]

Thanks so much ahead of time to all those who reach out to help those of us trying to join you!

So here's my situation:

- Former active duty CW2 UH60 pilot in the Army.

- Last military flight Nov 05.

- Currently civilian EMS helicopter pilot in Alaska.

- 31 yrs old, 32 in May.

- Going to school full-time online and finishing degree in August.

- 2600+ TT (mostly helos), 200+ fixed wing on a private rating

I'm interested in flying for the ANG in Alaska (or a handful of other states potentially). Would love to make the leap over to the fixed-wing side of things in C-130s or C-17s, but would be thrilled to hop into an HH-60 as well if that's the only way back into a green flight suit. I've contacted a couple of folks from the community that have pointed me to this forum. So I throw it to you!

1. Do I need a UPT slot as a rated Army pilot to fly fixed-wing? What about HH-60s?

2. Can I apply to a board prior to receiving my degree?

3. How does all this work out with regard to my age? (I'm thinking if UPT is required, this is a long shot)

Thanks so much for any help, guidance, or encouragement!

We have a very similar situation. (Army UH-60 warrant, 31 years old, etc.) I just completed the transfer process and am awaiting FWQ dates. I didn't have the break in service and I believe there is an issue over 8 years. Check out the AFI 11-402 pages 11-25. This will explain the transfer process. Once hired you will do an Aeronautical Rating Board to convert your Armt wings to AF Rotor Only. This is where the 8 years comes in to play. You would require an actual board versus an ARB waiver if over 8. Start getting a packet together and submit it to any unit or airframe you are interested in. Also, start contacting units you want to fly with. Tell them your current situation and have the regs to back up your story.

You do NOT need a UPT slot for airplanes or helos. For airplanes you will need to attend the Fixed Wing Qualification course. (This means a unit can hire you outside of a UPT board.) For helos you need a helo unit to hire you, then you would head to OTS and then Kirtland AFB for the HH-60 transition. Since you are a military rated pilot you do not need to take the AFOQT or TBAS tests. There is NO age waiver required.

PM with questions. I have some unit info as well.

[Marjackson82]

How much time, if any, is added to your ASDC if you transfer to the ANG/AFRES but don't actually go to UPT? (Go through either the fixed-wing course or helo transition course). You wouldn't incur the 10-year commitment, right?

[Lord B]

How much time, if any, is added to your ASDC if you transfer to the ANG/AFRES but don't actually go to UPT? (Go through either the fixed-wing course or helo transition course). You wouldn't incur the 10-year commitment, right?

Good question. I was just happy to get away from 12-18 month deployments. Short answer, I dont know. I will ask. My best guess is that it still applies.

[Lord B]

How much time, if any, is added to your ASDC if you transfer to the ANG/AFRES but don't actually go to UPT? (Go through either the fixed-wing course or helo transition course). You wouldn't incur the 10-year commitment, right?

36 Months was the answer i got for the FWQ.

[Guest aircavaz]

Hey everyone,

I am currently a active duty CW2 in the army and I am looking to join the ANG. I am looking for anyone who has done this before and would like to pick their brain for information. I have read the info from previous forums and was curious to see if there were any changes to the process. A little background info on me, OH-58D pilot with almost 2200 total hours, degree in aeronautics, 26 years old and ETSing from the army in June. Thanks again.

[Guest JT]

Even though you're a 58D guy, I might still help you. Haha, I made the switch a few years ago. The process hasn't really changed, you still need to get picked up by a unit before you can really start the process. In the meantime, you can get a 1st class physical and take the AFOQT. Your age is good and you can still get a UPT slot, which may get you hired faster as opposed to a fixed-wing qual slot. Used to be that the best bet was a guard/reserve unit close by, since they seem to like locals. But a lot of guard units are brac'd and other units are picking up their people. Reserves might be the best bet since an Officer Recruiter can give you vacancies nationwide. Have you looked at the Coast Guard, direct-commision is the way to go and you're still active duty in a good organization. PM me if you have specific q's.

[Guest aircavaz]

Hey everyone. I have a few quick question I was hoping someone could help me with. I just got out of the army a week ago as a CW2 helicopter pilot and have an interview with an ANG unit next month. Before I got out of the army, I got a current flight physical and was wondering if that would suffice or if I would have to get a brand new FC1 physical? If selected, would I have to go through the same process as a civilian applicant or would there be a different path I would take to attaining Air Force wings? If anyone who has gone through this process has any good advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again

[LoadClear]

Hey everyone. I have a few quick question I was hoping someone could help me with. I just got out of the army a week ago as a CW2 helicopter pilot and have an interview with an ANG unit next month. Before I got out of the army, I got a current flight physical and was wondering if that would suffice or if I would have to get a brand new FC1 physical? If selected, would I have to go through the same process as a civilian applicant or would there be a different path I would take to attaining Air Force wings? If anyone who has gone through this process has any good advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks again

Is your FC1 physical still current or has it expired?

I know a guy that was an Army warrant, then went the UPT route. Because he was going to be commissioned in the AF, he had to get a commissioning physical prior to AMS. There are a handful of things past the commissioning physical that pertain to rated positions (Pilot, Nav, ABM). The ANG unit that hired me was doing commissioning physicals for a handful of us on a UTA, some will be rated, some not. They just added the extra stuff that the rated guys had to do and it was still all accomplished the same day. Because I already get an enlisted flying physical, all of the things that were beyond the commissioning physical and for the FC1 on my enlisted flight physical were pulled from my last physical and I did not have to accomplish them. So my thinking would be if you have a Army FC1 physical and its the same as the Air Force FC1 and its CURRENT, you should have no problem.

BTW, your flying experience will be a huge plus for the board but they will also be confident that you will pass the FC1. They "hire" alternates for a reason because theres always the guys that don't pass the FC1/FC1A physical and security clearance. Your two steps ahead of the game. Good luck!

Edited June 30, 2010 by LoadClear

[scoobs]

How's Army Aviation lifestyle? Seems like everyone is looking to leave, is it that bad?

[Victory103]

It's the deployments for many, as mentioned above 12-15 months was the norm. Guys are looking at both ANG/AFRC and USCG for better overall quality of life/deployment cycles. I'm prior Navy enlisted aircrew and surprised we don't bend more metal based on the number of hours flown.

[Guest Sherco]

Does anyone have any info on Air Guard/Reserve units in the southeast that may be interested in picking up an CW2 out of the Army Guard?

I've gotta a 4-year degree, 3400 hours (1700 fixed wing), prior airline & current corporate pilot flying Citations (ATP, Typed, and flying single pilot & crew) and some King Airs. I'm looking for somewhere that is a 'reasonable' commute for me (driving). I'm about to start Graduate school, but wanted to make a few phone calls (again) to see if there are any takers into the Air Guard. I was enlisted in the Air Guard as an SP years ago. The Army Guard has been a culture shock......and still is. Some of the guys are great, but.............anyways......

I started making calls a couple of years ago trying to find out if anyone would take a Warrant from the AR Guard. However, I got tied up with a deployment and my civilian job, so I had to put it off.

Before I start calling everyone (again), if anybody has any ideas on who 'might' be worth while calling first, I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Edited December 27, 2010 by Toro
Merged thread

[LoadClear]

You are interested in a unit in the southeast close enough for commuting, but a more specific location would be helpful. Where exactly do you live?

With your experience, I'm sure you would be competitive in a pilot interview. How old are you? Have you taken the AFOQT? Is there an airframe you would prefer to fly? This sort of information may help you in your search.

Also, take a look at http://www.guardreservejobs.com/ for job postings. Best of luck!

Edited December 27, 2010 by LoadClear

[Guest Sherco]

Thanks for the response.

As for my location and age, I'm in East Tennessee and 34 years old. No preference on an airframe.

Do intra-service transfer aviators still take the AFOQT?

Thanks again!