Hearing information (H1, H2, H3, testing, waivers)

[Bishop]

Digging up this post.. Again I have another friend now interested in the service, she has decided to go enlisted, she wanted to go enlisted aircrew. I am uncertain what the specs are on Hearing for Enlisted aircrew, as well she wasnt aware of what her "H" level was all they said was she failed the hearing test, I offered to check into it for her if she can do anything. Here is what she told me.

600 mhz = 60

rest were below 15

Reading the other posts that sounds a bit low..Is she SOL on a waiver, or can she retest? Thanks in advance.

Edit: She has confirmed she is an H2 and her problem lies in that they are not letting her retest, is there policies or procedures preventing her from retesting, or is there a direction you all could point me to so I coudl track the info down, I have no idea where to start besides this board.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Bishop

[latidah]

Edit: She has confirmed she is an H2 and her problem lies in that they are not letting her retest, is there policies or procedures preventing her from retesting, or is there a direction you all could point me to so I coudl track the info down, I have no idea where to start besides this board.

Well, other than calling bulls*** on not letting her retest, there is nothing I can find that precludes her from accomplishing a new hearing test. What if she'd realized later that she had a cold or been exposed to loud noise within the previous 40 hours? Those two examples should be reason enough to demand a retest. However, you could also ask the medical guys to point where in 48-123 (the bible reg of medical exams) she is not allowed to retest. Then politely ask for her to be rescheduled.

Recommendations: have her wear hearing plugs (the little foam ones work fine) the day and night prior to the test. Sometimes that's enough to make a dramatic difference - even wind noise from a car window can affect hearing. However, if the retest is the same, she'd have to get an audiology work up (probably on her own dime) to show no evidence of an underling condition that may cause the high result. I'm assuming you meant the 6000 mHz (not 600), which is the highest frequency tested. This is also often the one freq that shows early noise-related hearing loss. As long as there's no other medical condition, and the hearing loss is only in one freq (and not "asymmetric" as defined by two freq loss difference), waiver chances are good. She falls under IFC III standards, which does require an H1 profile w/out a waiver.

[Bishop]

Well, other than calling bulls*** on not letting her retest, there is nothing I can find that precludes her from accomplishing a new hearing test. What if she'd realized later that she had a cold or been exposed to loud noise within the previous 40 hours? Those two examples should be reason enough to demand a retest. However, you could also ask the medical guys to point where in 48-123 (the bible reg of medical exams) she is not allowed to retest. Then politely ask for her to be rescheduled.

Recommendations: have her wear hearing plugs (the little foam ones work fine) the day and night prior to the test. Sometimes that's enough to make a dramatic difference - even wind noise from a car window can affect hearing. However, if the retest is the same, she'd have to get an audiology work up (probably on her own dime) to show no evidence of an underling condition that may cause the high result. I'm assuming you meant the 6000 mHz (not 600), which is the highest frequency tested. This is also often the one freq that shows early noise-related hearing loss. As long as there's no other medical condition, and the hearing loss is only in one freq (and not "asymmetric" as defined by two freq loss difference), waiver chances are good. She falls under IFC III standards, which does require an H1 profile w/out a waiver.

Thanks man., this will be great news for her, and ill tell her about the earplugs thing, thats an awesome idea, and I can definitely see the logic on how it would work. Yeah I was confused about the no retest as well.. becaue I read on this thread or another one the guy that started it retested like 5 times.. I will pass this stuff along to her, thanks alot for your help! If a waiver is necessary, how would I tell ehr to start the process, if the recruiter is unwilling to even let her retest, I can only imagine hes not gonna want to start work on a waiver..

Where can I get a copy of this 48-123 form?

[Bishop]

Jsut got done telling her that info, she was glad to hear it, and I found out it wasnt her recruiter saying she couldnt retest it was actually MEPS that said that, and so it is possible they were just saying that she could retest the same day

Hmm just rereading that oyu say requires H1 w/o a waiver so even if seh gets a waiver she cant be a enlisted Aircrew? also the score she got (15 in every categorey besides 6000), how far was she from a H1 level?.

Edited January 20, 2008 by Bishop

[latidah]

Jsut got done telling her that info, she was glad to hear it, and I found out it wasnt her recruiter saying she couldnt retest it was actually MEPS that said that, and so it is possible they were just saying that she could retest the same day

Hmm just rereading that oyu say requires H1 w/o a waiver so even if seh gets a waiver she cant be a enlisted Aircrew? also the score she got (15 in every categorey besides 6000), how far was she from a H1 level?.

AFI 48-123 is available on the AF pubs site: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil

Search under Departmental, 48 (Aerospace Medicine) series - there are 4 volumes, Vol 3 deals with Aircrew standards, and I think Vol 4 has the hearing profile information.

MEPS is run like a factory - there isn't a lot of time to deal with special cases. She should be able to work with her recruiter to get scheduled for a retest there, but a better chance may lie with the local AF medical facility (including local guard/reserve bases). I forget if you said she was going AD or Guard/Reserve, but she'll have to get additional testing at some point to fill in the requirements for the initial flight physical (which I thought MEPS didn't do).

She's not very far off from the H1 level, so a retest may be enough to put her back into that category. It's an all-or-nothing thing - if you are over in even only one freq, that puts you into the next hearing category. If the restest is the same, and the audiology workup shows nothing serious, the waiver should not be difficult to get. Getting a waiver will allow her to be enlisted aircrew.

[Guest P27:17]

AFI 48-123 is available on the AF pubs site: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil

Search under Departmental, 48 (Aerospace Medicine) series - there are 4 volumes, Vol 3 deals with Aircrew standards, and I think Vol 4 has the hearing profile information.

MEPS is run like a factory - there isn't a lot of time to deal with special cases. She should be able to work with her recruiter to get scheduled for a retest there, but a better chance may lie with the local AF medical facility (including local guard/reserve bases). I forget if you said she was going AD or Guard/Reserve, but she'll have to get additional testing at some point to fill in the requirements for the initial flight physical (which I thought MEPS didn't do).

She's not very far off from the H1 level, so a retest may be enough to put her back into that category. It's an all-or-nothing thing - if you are over in even only one freq, that puts you into the next hearing category. If the restest is the same, and the audiology workup shows nothing serious, the waiver should not be difficult to get. Getting a waiver will allow her to be enlisted aircrew.

As I understand AFI 48-123 Attch 5.6 to read...this individual would be an H-2 with a 60 at the 6000 frequency. He/she would need a waiver and an ENT/audiology eval to support it.

[Guest Chucktalbert]

Hi Doc's,

So Im new to this board and I am applying to OTS currently. I am prior navy and had to get a Hearing waiver for High Freq loss in my right ear. I know I am going to have to apply again through the Airforce but I was wondering if you thought it would be hard to get this passed, I heard the Airforce is more strict than the navy on medical waivers. I am not going pilot/nav, just want to be an officer. Here are my scores from when I took it the first time at MEPS.

FREQ:....05 10 20 30 40 60

RIGHT:..00 00 05 60 50 55

LEFT:.....00 15 20 30 05 15

It looks like I only failed the 3k range. I really want to stop wondering about this so.... Any thoughts/opinions? Any suggestions for going to meps again this time?

Thanks a lot!

Chuck

Edited July 5, 2008 by Chucktalbert

[Guest P27:17]

Hi Doc's,

So Im new to this board and I am applying to OTS currently. I am prior navy and had to get a Hearing waiver for High Freq loss in my right ear. I know I am going to have to apply again through the Airforce but I was wondering if you thought it would be hard to get this passed, I heard the Airforce is more strict than the navy on medical waivers. I am not going pilot/nav, just want to be an officer. Here are my scores from when I took it the first time at MEPS.

FREQ:....05 10 20 30 40 60

RIGHT:..00 00 05 60 50 55

LEFT:.....00 15 20 30 05 15

It looks like I only failed the 3k range. I really want to stop wondering about this so.... Any thoughts/opinions? Any suggestions for going to meps again this time?

Thanks a lot!

Chuck

I'll have to look at the Commission standards when I get to work tomorrow...you have 2 issues going on:

1. High Frequency Hearing loss in the right ear at or over the H-2/H-3 profile

2. You have Asymmetric Hearing; a difference of 20 decibels between ears in at least 2 consecutive frequencies.

You will need an audiology eval and an ENT eval to determine if it is stable or if it is progressive (gonna get worse). The will also want to know if it is due to a disease process or from noise exposure.

So, if you get "through the door" and get an AF Commission exam be prepared for these...if not then you have to decide if you want to pay for them on your own and hope they'll except the evals.

If you do get an AF Commission, you job choices will be limited due to your hearing...FWIW

[Guest Chucktalbert]

I'll have to look at the Commission standards when I get to work tomorrow...you have 2 issues going on:

1. High Frequency Hearing loss in the right ear at or over the H-2/H-3 profile

2. You have Asymmetric Hearing; a difference of 20 decibels between ears in at least 2 consecutive frequencies.

You will need an audiology eval and an ENT eval to determine if it is stable or if it is progressive (gonna get worse). The will also want to know if it is due to a disease process or from noise exposure.

So, if you get "through the door" and get an AF Commission exam be prepared for these...if not then you have to decide if you want to pay for them on your own and hope they'll except the evals.

If you do get an AF Commission, you job choices will be limited due to your hearing...FWIW

Well I just got another Hearing test yesterday from a civilian doc and the scores came out basically the same so that at least shows it is not progressive since it was 8 years later. I had an ENT eval to get the waiver for the Navy and he evaluated it to be due to noise exposure. So I hope that is at least good. Was the Navy less strict in its waiver process, or was I just lucky? Thanks for all your help!

Chuck

[Guest P27:17]

Well I just got another Hearing test yesterday from a civilian doc and the scores came out basically the same so that at least shows it is not progressive since it was 8 years later. I had an ENT eval to get the waiver for the Navy and he evaluated it to be due to noise exposure. So I hope that is at least good. Was the Navy less strict in its waiver process, or was I just lucky? Thanks for all your help!

Chuck

Chuck...I did some checking and the news is not good. You must be in the H-2 category for AF Commissioning. They will not waive H-3 (which you are in the 3000 frequency of you right ear).

I wish I had better news...if you choose to pursue it anyway...I wish you the best!

[Guest Chucktalbert]

Chuck...I did some checking and the news is not good. You must be in the H-2 category for AF Commissioning. They will not waive H-3 (which you are in the 3000 frequency of you right ear).

I wish I had better news...if you choose to pursue it anyway...I wish you the best!

Thanks a lot for checking into that for me. Recruiters just do not have that quality of information. Is there anyway you could point me in the right direction to find out this for the other services? Army or Coast Guard? Thanks again

Chuck

[jimbobpow13]

At brooks if you fail the first hearing test will they retest you?

[Butters]

At brooks if you fail the first hearing test will they retest you?

No, you are imidiately taken outside and shot!

Just kidding. Yes they will. The next time you go they recomend sleeping with earplugs and wearing them to the test, no raido on in the car and have the windows rolled up.

[Guest P27:17]

No, you are imidiately taken outside and shot!

Just kidding. Yes they will. The next time you go the recomend sleeping with earplugs and waring them to the test, no raido on in the car and have the windows rolled up.

No he's correct...

You'll probably be retested the next day...as Nole said, avoid excessive noise as best a possible.

If you still have a questionable hearing test they'll send you to an audiologist/ENT eval to determine the cause and likelyhood of progression.

[Palangi]

I was at brooks in august and I was retested the next day, and the next day, and the next day for hearing. Two months Later, I was tested again. I went from H1 in my AS300 year to h3 in my left ear this year. I found that they really wanted to know what my hearing was doing. Fortunately I got a waiver to commission even if I have to be a shoe.

Just be nice and they will take care of you the best they can.

[Guest janis597]

Hi

Given you posted this back in 2006 I am hoping you and/or any others on this forum found a way to improve on your scores and achieve your goal. Be great if you could share with me what you did because my son has just been thru OASC at Cranwell England and has been found to have H2 hearing in one ear, H1 in the other and we think that's not good enough for air crew selection. Also any information on waivers would be good.

Thanks

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Am I the only one who had problems with the hearing test? I consider myself to have a normal range of hearing, and wasn't too concerned when I went to take the hearing portion of the FC1 today..

But once they shut the door on the sound-proof booth, and you put those headphones over your head, it's so quiet in there that I could hear the beat of my own heart. Which, in fact caused me to miss several of the miniscule *beeps* that I was supposed to hear. If I moved at all, or even swallowed, that alone would drown out any of the other sounds in the headphones.

I don't know that I failed it outright, but the tech said I was low on the 3 and 4 (tones, I guess?) portion of the test, and that it could be earwax buildup in the inner ear (yuk).

Now I'm wondering if I need to see a doc and have my ears cleaned out and see if they'll let me test again (in the event that I did fail).

Just curious if anyone else has had any challenges with the hearing test, and what (if anything), they did to improve their score.

[Hawker]

Does the FCI only test to the 6000 HZ range? or does it go higher?

[Guest sleepyboyd]

Hi, I would like some direction on possibly being diagnosed for Sudden Unilateral Hearing Loss.

I lost my hearing in my right ear suddenly about 6 weeks ago. I went to the flight doc the day after it happened and he thought it was an allergy problem... The funny thing is I have never had any allergies that i've known of. I took pseudophedrine, and when that didn't work, they placed me on flonase and allegra, but nothing happened. finally, after 5 visits to flight med in 4 weeks they refered me to an ENT. After 2 weeks of waiting on Tricare, and then waiting on an appointment... what I thought was a simple allergy turned out to be something really really bad. My ENT is treating me with Decadrone now through a silverstein wick, and he said it would be a miraculous recovery at this stage in the game.

i'm not sure if the ENT is preparing me for the worst case, but he made it sound very likely i will never get my hearing back, since the flight docs waited so long to refer me. But, I cannot undo the past. If i loose my hearing in the right ear, is there a waiver? I was a Instructor Navigator, but over the past year i've been going through UPT. And this incedent happened right between phase 2 and 3. I've been told I could get a waiver if i was still a navigator, but since i'm now classed as a UPT student, it's unlikely i'll get a waiver.

I have a commercial instrument rating through the FAA, and as a Navigator i'm eligable to be a UAV pilot even without completeing UPT ( I think, if that program is still going on where Navigators with FAA ratings can cross train as UAV pilots)... and would also like to know if I could get a waiver for this issue to be a UAV pilot?

If I cannot be a UAV pilot, is this problem going to cause me to loose my career in the USAF.. as in, would I be ineligiable to mover to a non-rated career field, or otherwise "unfit for duty"?

I was blindsided by this issue this past Friday, and as you can guess, i'm praying the silverstein wick works. I would like to arm myself with more information, so i can make educated decisions and stay in the service in the comming weeks if this problem dosen't go away.

Any help is appreciated. Thankyou.

[Guest sleepyboyd]

Hello, I haven't heard anything back from the forum about this issue, so I thought I would update the forum to see if I can get any information about a waiver for my Sudden Unilateral Hearing Loss.

I was told that in fact, I could get a waiver, but my flight doc here is a Navy Flight Doc. He says he has no idea about my situation and how the USAF will treat my waiver application. He's doing his own research with some Air Force Docs at Brooks right now. He is committed to trying his best to get a waiver for me, but he admits he dosen't have much history with this type of hearing loss to offer.

The short story since my last post is that the wick didn't work. They have patched my eardrum and I should be done with the ENT this week. My hearing has not changed according to the audiograms, and I still have significant loss of the right side only. I have no balance issues assosiated with this.

I need only to get a waiver for a Class II physical to continue in UPT. My flight doc told me they could issue me a conditional??? Class II, with limitations??? What exactly do they limit? Has any other flight doc heard of a case where a guy looses alot of his hearing in one ear getting a waiver? What about UAV's?

I'm stuck on a Navy Base, and these guys are doing the best they can, but there isn't much history to work off of here. Any information would be awesome.

Thanks

[Guest sleepynav]

Wow, no information on this? My waiver is still in "The System." I passes an in-flight hearing test, but no news from the waiver front. This must be a real rare issue for no one to have any information.

[JPStryker]

Wow, no information on this? My waiver is still in "The System." I passes an in-flight hearing test, but no news from the waiver front. This must be a real rare issue for no one to have any information.

I was also afflicted with SUHL back in Feb '09. Took a nap one day and woke up deaf (40-70 decibel loss across all frequencies) in my left ear - no trauma, no illness, no flying/diving, nothing. Went to the flight doc the next day and my heart sank when he said that he couldn't see anything wrong inside my ear. I got in to see a civilian ENT that same day. He was all set to Microwick me, but I backed out. He couldn't give me convincing data on the efficacy and I didn't want to risk not having my eardrum heal up properly. I figured it had as good a chance of getting better on its own as it did with the Microwick. Alas, it never got better.

I started down the waiver road. I did the inflight hearing test which is a joke if you wear a headset and can hear well out of one ear. So I passed that no problem. Despite this the flight doc was all doom and gloom and claimed my waiver chances were not good - I didn't believe him. I made it down to Brooks in Dec '09 and went through all of the tests again. Yep, it's confirmed, I can't hear well from my left ear. So I sat down with the young doctor who was my case manager and impressed upon him that, even though I was down one ear, I was still better at my job than 69% of the guys who had two ears. I guess he agreed with me. Brooks recommended waiver approval and ACC followed their recommendation.

My impression of the process - it all hinges on the doctor who manages your case at Brooks and their opinion of your situation. For me it was different because I'm a trained, experienced aircrew member - not a cross-trainee. YMMV. Best of luck to you, hit me up if you have any ?s

[Guest sleepynav]

JP Stryker,

Hello, I've been meaning to get back on here. I received my waiver early February, and have 70-80 decibel loss in my right ear. They waived it, and threw me strait into class two days later, so it has been go,go,go since. They said I needed an audiology work up every year from now on to keep track of my good ear. I acquired an ANR headset since, and flying in the T-44 is now very quiet and easy to hear. Regular headsets were fine, but for training, I want to make sure I hear the instructor.

My flight doc here told me my chances were low on the waiver, but he was more curious than anything when he wrote the paperwork. He wanted to see if he could actually get the waiver through (like a challenge). Since I was already "trained aircrew" as a navigator, we lobbied for a FC2 physical waiver even though I was in UPT, and they (Brooks) said that would work. Lo' and Behold, it came through. It's just like you said, it's all on the doc you see and how they write the paperwork for Brooks to read and evaluate. I'm glad your waiver went through as well. At least i'm not the only "non-stereo" hearing guy flying. I actually have a harder time hearing in the simulators here, (we don't wear headsets in our sims, and the sim operator sits on my right "dead" side).

If you don't mind me asking, what airframe do you fly, and do you use any ANR equipment? (headsets / Earcups in helmets, etc.) I'll be going back to the C-130 more than likely, and i'm interested in what options I may have for ANR in helmets and stuff.

[Guest rufeecolada]

First, Thanks to all for your prior information. I have a few specific questions with a hearing problem.

Background: I am 26, trying to get an ANG pilot slot, no prior service, (and running out of time!). I developed tinnitus and a loss of hearing about 5 years ago while shooting a shotgun. I have been going to several ent's and finally found that may be able to help. Thanks to your information I see that I would fail the hearing test at the 4000 and 6000 mhz level. I have several specific questions:

Can I go to MEPS now before selected for a upt slot to see if I could pass the test?

If I fail can I use an ENT that I have working with, or must I use an air force appointed one?

My current ENT (prior air force guy, said he thinks he could prove that the hearing wont get any worse and that it is a genetic issue. Would the doctors accept this? Im worried because I have no prior service, and would MEPS accept this? I could see Wright Patt working with me, but I picture MEPS being if I don't pass I get kicked in the ass out the door no questions asked.

Thanks for answers and ideas. Im trying to figure this out before I waste this unit's time and energy if I don't pass.

Thanks again

[Guest rufeecolada]

Well I will ask a more simpler question:

Can you guess at the tones on the audiogram? Like timing it? Anyone try?

Can I go to meps before a unit formally sends me?

Bueller?

[KWings06j]

This is the closest thread I could find to my question so hopefully I'm in the right spot...

I am an active duty pilot and have developed occasional tinnitus (ringing a few times a week for a minute or so at a time). My last hearing test I had a significant hearing shift (for the worse) and had to come back and retest a month later. Passed it with an improvement over my baseline (most of you can guess how). I'm debating reporting the tinnitus to the flight doc to get it in my records for future disability claims but I don't want it to affect my flying status. Anyone had experience with tinnitus and/or hearing decrease that can weigh in? I'm coming up on my commitment and am really on the fence on what I want to do once it expires so I'm trying to prepare for either choice.