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Guest firedawg

Hearing information (H1, H2, H3, testing, waivers)

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Guest firedawg

Hello

I am currently a loadmaster and have a hearing waiver until 06 for a class three flight physical. I am applying for a nav slot and need a class two. Will the waiver for the class three slide over or will a new workup have to be done? Can I get a waiver for the class two? Can anyone give me some insight? Thanks

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You'll need a new waiver for your IFC IA (nav) physical. Your flight doc should be able to take the old narrative summary and transfer it in the waiver system, AIMWTS, and submit it to AETC for certification (unless anything has changed, or your narrative is over 1 year old, in which case, (s)he will need to update/addendum the summary - this may require additional workup by an audiologist).

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Guest F16PilotMD

You need a FC1A physical. I'm not too sure if you'll get an H-3 profile waiver for UNT. If you were already a Nav, then I'm sure you could get the waiver. They likely will consider your request as a new applicant. Worth a shot, though. Good luck.

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Dawg,

Hey man, good luck bro. I have been battling hearing problems since my commission. If you have ever wondered if you are alone, or if H3 hearing would affect your ability to navigate. I am H3. Then again, I am also H1 and H2. It really depends on what day I take the test. The difference in H1 and H3 hearing in the 4K range is 15 decibals - the difference of a mouse fart in my opinion. However, then again, I am not the "man" making those rules.

As a navigator mission commanding a 3+ ship to a DZ you will have to hear the following: interplane, intraplane, range control, DZ control, and ATC. I have to hear them correctly - the first time - mistakes are not an option. The comm's all come in rapid fire succession, sometimes simultaneously, and I have never had a problem. This is not to say you won't, but just don't let that H3 stigma stop or slow you down.

If you have any specific questions fire them away at me. I got my H3 waiver when I was already a nav. My squadron had the waiver before the ink dried. It doesn't do much for you that you are a loadmaster, but your aircrew status and flight time should speak volumes to them.

Good luck

Also, when I went through ROTC, it took me 5 tries to get H1, and it was by the skin of my teeth. Are they giving you an option to retake it a few more times?

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Okay, I need some advice

I'm going to Brooks for my FCI/MFS on 9 May testing starts 10 May. Here's the question. ...on 8 May there is a concert I have been wanting to go to for the longest time. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this.

Would you recomend against going to the concert two days before the testing since my hearing could be skewed slightly.

By all means my shot at pilot in the USAF is more important than a concert when it comes down to it. But I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

Just a little addition...I took an online hearing test (with headphones), supposedly its pattented, not 2 hours after being at a concert and passed it with flying colors.

Basically do you think 2 days of rest is enough for my ears to recover...Man that was long...sory about that

Adam

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Guest F16PilotMD

Well, I think you already know the answer to this but since you took the time to ask the question, I'll give you my advice.

DON'T GO TO THE CONCERT.

Read this board for a while...look how many people are pulling their hair out over eyes, ears, ACL repairs, etc, etc...you don't want to be in their shoes because of one concert, do you?

LOUD NOISE WILL affect your hearing test. If your hearing is soooo good right now that you can afford to take the hit.......enjoy the show. But, don't send me any questions that start with, "flight doc, I failed my hearing test, now what do I do....."

Just kidding...seriously, good luck. Let me know if you have any problems. I would really not go to the concert or any place else with loud noise that close to your physical.

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Guest ncsu14

I had a bad experience with this - being near loud music prior to an audiogram - and it adversely affected me... and while we're on the subject of hearing...

F16MD... i've read your posts on this subject before but I am still looking for clarification... I tested in the H-2 profile, which I am not having to get a waiver for but have had a work-up w/ an ENT and am having an MRI to rule out Retchoc. Pathology... so long as this MRI comes out ok will i have more reprocussions with this in the fuure? Thanks.

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Guest F16PilotMD

I think you need to be H-1 for an initial flying class 1 physical. Not sure why you are not needing a waiver for that but, the answer to your question about further trouble is no--after you get the class 1 physical. As long as your audiology workup is okay, you're fine. See AFI48-123 below.

A7.4. Hearing, Flying Class II and III. Hearing loss greater than H-1 profile or asymmetric hearing

loss requires work-up by an audiologist (audiology evaluation for initial waiver and waiver renewals must

have been accomplished within 12 months of submission to waiver authority). Waivers are required for

H-3 hearing loss or greater. Indefinite waivers are not authorized.

A7.4.1. H-2 profile alone does not require waiver. However, an evaluation sufficient to rule-out conductive

or retrocochlear pathology should be conducted. This includes full audiologic evaluation

and, where appropriate, referral for ENT consultation. Referral to ENT may be at the discretion of the

audiologist or referring facility. Restriction from flying is not required during work-up.

A7.4.2. H-3 profile requires waiver.

A7.4.2.1. For members with new H-3 profiles (i.e., those whose hearing has recently changed to

H-3, and who have not been previously worked-up), restriction from flying is appropriate.

NOTE: *Members with long-standing, stable H-3 not previously evaluated, require work-up and waiver,

but need not be restricted from flying, unless in the opinion of the flight surgeon they represent a danger

to flying safety.

A7.4.2.2. Interim waiver may be granted by MAJCOM/SG after determination of acceptable

hearing proficiency (occupational aircrew hearing assessment), pending complete audiology evaluation

(indefinite waivers are not authorized).

A7.4.2.3. Validate hearing proficiency in one of two ways prior to issuance of medical waiver for

H-3 profile:

A7.4.2.3.1. Inflight hearing test as described in SAM TR73-29

A7.4.2.3.2. Written validation, signed by the flying squadron commander or operations

officer, of the adequacy of the member’s hearing to perform safely in assigned aircrew duties

in the flying environment.

A7.4.2.4. Waiver is contingent upon complete audiologic and where appropriate, ENT evaluation.

NOTE: * The audiologist must rule out conductive and retrocochlear disease. The audiologist may defer

ENT evaluation.

AFI48-123 22 MAY 2001 133

A7.4.2.5. The occupational aircrew hearing assessment is deferred for inactive flyers. They may

receive a Flying Class IIC waiver specifying the completion of the occupational aircrew hearing

assessment before return to active flying.

A7.4.3. Asymmetric hearing loss (greater than, or equal to, 25dB difference, comparing left and right

ear, at any two consecutive frequencies) requires full audiological work-up with further clinical evaluation

as indicated, and requires a waiver (indefinite waivers are not authorized). Restriction from flying

is not required during work-up.

A7.4.4. The following tests are suggested as a complete audiologic evaluation:

A7.4.4.1. Pure tone air and bone conduction thresholds.

A7.4.4.2. Speech reception thresholds.

A7.4.4.3. Speech discrimination testing, to include high intensity discrimination.

A7.4.4.4. Immittance audiometry.

A7.4.4.5. Tympanograms.

A7.4.4.6. Ipsilateral and contralateral acoustic reflexes (levels not exceeding 110 dB HL).

A7.4.4.7. Acoustic reflex decay (500 and 1000 Hz, with levels not exceeding 110 dB HL).

A7.4.4.8. Otoacoustic emissions (transient evoked or distortion product).

A7.4.5. The following tests may be required if indicated by the above:

A7.4.5.1. Auditory brainstem response.

A7.4.5.2. MRI.

NOTE: *Audiology reevaluation is required for waiver renewals if a shift of greater than 10dB is noted

from the “initial” audiology evaluation used for the initial waiver in any one frequency from 1,000 Hz to

4,000 Hz. Additionally, audiology evaluations submitted to the waiver authority must have been accomplished

within 12 months. These rules apply to all hearing waivers.

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Guest ncsu14

I was given this info highlited by the flight medicine people, as per what you posted... this was for an initial FC, were they making some mistake???: A7.4.1. H-2 profile alone does not require waiver. However, an evaluation sufficient to rule-out conductive

or retrocochlear pathology should be conducted. This includes full audiologic evaluation

and, where appropriate, referral for ENT consultation. Referral to ENT may be at the discretion of the

audiologist or referring facility. Restriction from flying is not required during work-up.

[ 15. April 2004, 00:21: Message edited by: ncsu14 ]

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Guest F16PilotMD

A7.4. Hearing, Flying Class II and III

A7.4.1 falls under the above title...flying class II and III. I assume you are going for an initial flying class I/IA.

I can't seem to find the hearing requirements for IFC I/IA. I'll keep looking.

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Guest ncsu14

Yes, Initial Flying Class I/IA... thank you so much for looking, the folks at the base as mentioned above may or may not have made a mistake and I don't have a clue what's going on

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Guest erk183

i have always wondered the same thing, because no one seems to know about the hearing FCI/IA issues. For instance in AFI 48-123 several categories in A7 other than the hearing section start with "Flying classes II and III:" list stuff.. then add "Flying classes I and IA. In addition to the above.." etc etc but in A7.4 there is nothing. Why must they torture us so...

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Guest bjorn

Hey f16md!

Would you suggest wearing earplugs the day before a test, does it help?

Thanks!

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Guest F16PilotMD

Should only be an issue if you are close to not passing. I would avoid loud noise 2-3 days prior.

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Does anyone know how to interpret the numbers under the hearing test on your physical?

Example mine for my right ear are:

(numbers on left are constants; right-my numbers)

500-15

1000-5

2000-10

3000-0

4000-5

5000-0

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Guest erk183

For example a 1000-5 like you have means hearing loss of about 5db at 1000HZ, 0 is ideal, you're golden, well within limits in each range

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thanks man,

what exactly are the limits for each range? One of my buddies is worried about the hearing test and needs to know.

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Guest erk183

The Hearing 1 profile is:

500-25

1000-25

2000-25

3000-35

4000-45

6000-45

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Guest egghead

So if I have a "5" in the box instead of a "-5" like in some boxes, does that mean I've got a hearing "gain" of 5db at X range? Just curious.

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Guest F16PilotMD

A negative number means your hearing improved in that ear at that frequency range. That is not likely...just a result of an inexact test.

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Guest GuardBum
Originally posted by F16PilotMD:

A negative number means your hearing improved in that ear at that frequency range. That is not likely...just a result of an inexact test.

Actually, a negative number means your hearing is better than the standardized baseline and not an inexact test. Kind of like testing 20/15 when the norm is 20/20.

I had negative numbers in the mid frequencies for years. On my last physical, I went from -5 to +10 on the mid freq. Well within limits...but because the change was 15 db, I failed and I will have to get a new baseline with a hearing test off-base.

[ 04. May 2004, 01:35: Message edited by: GuardBum ]

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Guest F16PilotMD

The only numbers I care about typically are the differences between your baseline and current. There, a negative is an improvement and unlikely. If you have a significant change either direction there are a variety of things to do...most are not a big deal. Ordinarily it's just another test. Sometimes your baseline must be reset...can be done based on your records, no DNIF, no extra trips to the clinic. Not all hospitals are the same though. Only if you get very hard of hearing do you require DNIF, waiver, etc.

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Guest NimitsTexan

After squeaking by on the hearing on your FC1, what happens if in a future physical (say the pre-UPT FC2) you bust the H1-Profile limit on loss in frequency in one or both ears?

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Guest F16PilotMD

Not 100% sure how the UPT bases handle this, but in the real world you are sent (or your records are sent) to an audiologist to confirm normal hearing loss patterns associated with age and exposure to loud noise. They almost always simply reset your baseline to the last test rather than your first test. Several of my pilots fall into this category.

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Guest Ryan Paul

Hello all,

I passed a FC1 about two years ago, and I have to take another one this month because my current physical is about to expire.

What steps will I have to take in the unlikely event that I fail the hearing test (having initially passed it on my first physical)?

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