TBAS Information

[Guest FlashEW]

Originally posted by wellington:

500,000 hours please pilots who have been flying there whole life don't even have that many hours give me a break, I'm just telling you what we are hearing down in FL you can think what you want.

It's true that a minor glitch was found in the way PCSM's were calculated with the TBAS but that has since been corrected. It's a very good test of capacity for coordination and multitasking. Here's hoping you'll do better if you choose to re-take it.

[Guest Josh]

Originally posted by Ill Destructor:

Bah... "I have 500,000 hours, a 99.99999 Pilot and my PCSM score is only an 83! The TBAS must be broken!" You think they had some hack just throw some shit together for the Air Force to test pilot candidates with? The TBAS has been in development for years and they've had thousands of hours testing and playing with it. The TBAS is fine. You just didn't do as well as you'd have liked. Wah. Retake it if you must.

No need to "Wah"...I'll admit that I didn't do as well as I'd have liked, and I probably wouldn't have posted this topic if I had a higher PCSM.

[ 29. December 2006, 00:15: Message edited by: Josh ]

[Guest Josh]

Madhatter,

I looked at all the topics you mentioned and I didn't see one that spoke of this exact topic. Besides that, not everyone taking TBAS reads the gaming thread or even finds this board before they take it. I just don't think they considered all the variables when it comes to the TBAS. I have posted my stats on the AD board thread prior to starting this one.

Everyone,

I'm not looking for sypathy, comfort, etc, but I do appreciate Wellington's post because it may relate to mine and other people's problem. I do think the TBAS tests you ability to multi-task well. My issue was muscle memory. I don't have a flight sim (right now) that would allow me to use a joystick in my right hand. All the flying games I've played have been on regular game consoles with the pitch and turn control x/y pad in my left. Similarly, flying left seat in a Cessna, the yoke is in your left hand. In fighters, the stick is in your right. When you want to go up, you pull back, elevator goes up, nose pitches up. If I tried to control a video game right handed, especially with no sensation of forward motion, i.e. ground passing in perifery, it would take my mind-right hand connection a while to get this. This same principal is why it would be tough to fly a plane when the control surfaces were not responding properly to stick movement. With practice, anyone could become become accustomed to turning a steering wheel right and the car turning left. I'm saying what I'm use to controlling with my right hand had negative influence on my TBAS performance, but could easliy be overcome with practice (which I will do). Here's an interesting article on what happens when the controls are hooked up in a way you aren't use to:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,135113,00.html

I'm simply doubting the TBAS is worth weighing as much into the PCSM as we are seeing now and that it takes into consideration all factors that could affect a person's performace during the test.

[ 29. December 2006, 01:44: Message edited by: Josh ]

[joshrk22]

I think other factors come into play on the topic of coordination. I believe athletics has a huge influence. I've been playing sports my whole life; and my CFI told me after I soloed that he believed I had soloed so early because I was very coordinated from sports.

I think it's something you have or you don't. I have friends that have been playing sports as long as I have, and they are just horrible when it comes to coordidation.

I'm not the biggest, strongest, nor the fastest, but I am probably one of the most coordinated, and I've never had to work at it. I think it's something you can't really learn or teach, it's just natural.

I have also played video games my whole life too, so I think that could have an effect on my coordination also.

[Guest ABrown]

It's real easy. All you have to do is have a couple cups of coffee, play Mike Tyson's Punchout (you only have to beat Piston Honda the first time too!), THEN shoot some approaches using the fighter provided in GTA: San Andreas, as well as bomb the Area 51 site in the game a few times and you'll be good to go!

(The above is meant in good fun)

The test measures a lot of things essential to successfully completing UPT. After taking the Bat, my PCSM was an 88; after taking the TBAS post corrections, it's an 85. I'd love to tell you why I think it's that way......but I don't want to be dq'd from getting into UPT. Just do the best you can and you'll be alright.

[ 05. January 2007, 14:00: Message edited by: ATB ]

[Longhorn15]

For those flyers who haven't actually taken the test:

It is a good measure of multi-tasking, but the way it is designed, the "flight controls" are counter-intuitive to actual flying. It is not too bad as long as you think of it as a video game, and not actual flying.

[Guest cobrajeff]

Alright, I'm new to this thread and I'm an aspiring pilot. I've seen a few people type that HALO is a good preparation to the TBAS.

From the limited (official) examples of the TBAS layout I've seen, it appears that the controls are levers rather than thumbsticks found on a xbox or xbox360 handheld controllers.

Without compromising yourself and/or the TBAS test, could anyone clarify what it is? Thumbsticks or multidirectional levers?

Because if they're levers then you'd be using your whole hand and your arms. If they were thumbsticks, they'd only be used with the thumbs.

To add, I'm a wizard at HALO/HALO2. It would be great to know for preparation. Thanks for any help.

[Ill Destructor]

No thumbsticks, bucko. Ever see a thumbstick control a multi-million dollar aircraft? Didn't think so.

[brabus]

No game is going to prepare you at all for the TBAS. Just get a good rest the night before and be awake and alert to take the test. That's the only thing you can do to "prepare."

[spectre56]

How is it counter-intuitive? I only have 5 flying hours, so I really don't know jack, but it seemed that the flight controls are ok. Granted, your not going to be doing a whole lot of what is in the test in real life (I think).

[Guest tonestud]

I think other factors come into play on the topic of coordination. I believe athletics has a huge influence. I've been playing sports my whole life; and my CFI told me after I soloed that he believed I had soloed so early because I was very coordinated from sports.

I think it's something you have or you don't. I have friends that have been playing sports as long as I have, and they are just horrible when it comes to coordidation.

I'm not the biggest, strongest, nor the fastest, but I am probably one of the most coordinated, and I've never had to work at it. I think it's something you can't really learn or teach, it's just natural.

I have also played video games my whole life too, so I think that could have an effect on my coordination also.

You've got to be shitting me. Getting through UPT is all about studying and academics. Actually flying the plane has much less to do with "natural ability and coordination and gifts...etc....etc....." and much more to do with how well you prepare/chairfly.

Another post said something about right/left hand, blah blah. Well, when I flew T-1

s and now in C-17's we're trained in both seats and whichever hand you're using for the throttles or stick doesn't matter at all. Ya just switch.

As far as just getting to UPT, as far as I remember, the hand/eye test (when I took it, it was the bat) was a very small slice of the selection pie. Commander's ranking was what sent you to pilot training.

Anyway, if you get a slot and get your wings be ready to nestle up warm with your dash 1 (and multiple other pubs) and do some studying!!!!!!!!!! I do respect the dedication - just wanted to give insight since I was once a hopeful, got a slot, got my wings and am now flying for the AF.

Take it as you will, just my 2 cents.

[D-ron]

In my opinion the best practice is MS flight simulator and fly a helo. Buy a cheap joystick and some CH rudder pedals and your good to go. The good thing about flying a helo is that it forces you to track two things independently (2 dimensions with cyclic, 1 dimension with tail rotor) just like in the TBAS. Make sure you practice hovering because that's where you are really working. Flying a fixed wing a/c is ok too, but you're not forced to fly coordinated especially since in a simulator where you don't have that seat of the pants feeling.

ymmv

-Darin

[Guest Jack-8]

What was the setup? Commercially available?

[Sim]

What was the setup? Commercially available?

(I specifically asked proctor if I could talk about setup they used ...and she said its ok...as long as I don't talk about the test....)

....they use HOTAS Cougar (~200-300$) and CH-Rudder Pro USB (120$)

Cougar is a metal joystick with center play problem which people spend up to 600$ to fix to replace pots and other things. Obviously, USAF has a regular Cougar so problem is still there. CH Rudder Pro is a plastic rudder pedals with a weird feel to them due to pedals being too close to each other and not enough feedback. Both are sufficient to test reflexes....IMHO of course.

[B*D*A]

(I specifically asked proctor if I could talk about setup they used ...and she said its ok...as long as I don't talk about the test....)

....they use HOTAS Cougar (~200-300$) and CH-Rudder Pro USB (120$)

Cougar is a metal joystick with center play problem which people spend up to 600$ to fix to replace pots and other things. Obviously, USAF has a regular Cougar so problem is still there. CH Rudder Pro is a plastic rudder pedals with a weird feel to them due to pedals being too close to each other and not enough feedback. Both are sufficient to test reflexes....IMHO of course.

Get some time on this puppy if anything. I got a lucky break as a local engineering company hired AFROTC cadets to go through a UAV training program to collect data for software they were developing for the Air Force. I got about 30 hours time learning to "fly" UAVs. Also, ###### me if I ever have to do that for a job (-=.

Edited February 17, 2008 by B*D*A

[Guest bravodelta79]

Honestly they give you a LOT of info on the TBAS site about what to expect. Read through it, see what all the sections are and just come into it with plenty of sleep and stay relaxed. You'll do fine.

https://pcsm.aetc.af.mil/BatInfoPage/BatInfo.htm

[Guest LittleMan]

I disagree with those that say playing video games won't help you. If I needed to take it again, this is exactly how I would do it. Any first person shooter would do, but you must play online on as small a map as possible with as many people as possible (oh, and find one of those servers where mostly just way good guys play... you know, those that do nothing but play all day long). You have to use a joystick (duh) with the y-axis inverted so that pulling towards you moves the cross hair up and pushing away moves it down (duh, again). Obviously you'll need to use your left hand on the keyboard to move. It'll probably take you a couple of hours to get used to it, but if you get even halfway up the kills list you'll probably do just fine on the TBAS.

Oh, I almost forgot, the rudder pedals. Uhhh.... grab a medicine ball and move it back and forth between your left foot and right feet all why you are playing. HAHA... at least you have to concentrate on an additional task! ;-)

[Guest Grey]

Warcraft 3 or Starcraft or any of those RTS games help with multi-tasking and learning to use hotkeys on your keyboard while using the mouse. This becomes especially useful for the emergency scenario test as you'll just get used to the same concept.

[Guest Fuse]

I STRONGLY suggest the Cougar HOTAS. I've had one a while and because of how my TBAS was setup, I give my decision to buy it partial credit to me getting a 99 PCSM.

[Guest IncompletePete]

Yea, couldn't agree more. I was due to do mine but couldn't complete it because the setup wasn't quite right, however was surprised by the stick. The dead zone is is frustrating and the weight of it takes some getting used to given that I've grown up with cheap joysticks without much of a spring to them.

I'd like to get one, but at about £130, it's a lot of cash to spend, then again may be worth it.

Edited April 11, 2008 by IncompletePete

[brabus]

As for the hand/eye coordination, you either have it or you don't.

Bingo. Any computer game, no matter what "setup" you have is going to help very minimally at best. The ONLY real proven way to help yourself is get a goodnight sleep the night prior, don't be hungover for the test, etc. You're hands and mind either works the way the TBAS does or it doesn't. No amount of video games is going to change that.

[B*D*A]

Bingo. Any computer game, no matter what "setup" you have is going to help very minimally at best. The ONLY real proven way to help yourself is get a goodnight sleep the night prior, don't be hungover for the test, etc. You're hands and mind either works the way the TBAS does or it doesn't. No amount of video games is going to change that.

2. One thing did help me however, you may remember this Brabus, an engineering compay who was developing UAV software paid some cadets 18/hour to fly their sims and go through a training program. We used the Cougar HOTAS and I prob got 30 hours in. That helped a little bit, but like it's been said, just do it.

[brabus]

Yeah I can see how that program might have helped some, but I never did it. Since the test is a lot about multi-tasking, I could see maybe playing a game that requires a lot of movement/attention, but also doing quick math problems while playing. That's a very basic premise of the test. Either way, anything people do like that is going to help minimally at best...get a good sleep and hope you've got the hand/eye coordination and good multi-tasking skills to do well.

[Prefontaine]

On a separate note...

How long did it take you all to get your test results? After I took the test on Monday, my TCO told me to wait until NEXT FRIDAY because of Thanksgiving. I figure things might be delayed, but that seems like an awfully long time considering I've heard some people have come home from the test and found their scores online immediately. I've been checking for the past two days and I'm dying here. Should I really expect it to take that long? Could my TCO have just not submitted the stuff yet, or do they submit it right away and the graders are the ones who take the time?

Oh, and hopefully this doesn't fall under the category of talking-about-the-test-after-taking-the-test, but did anyone else find the stick to be really "stiff" (sts)?

[Bronco130]

I got mine and all my friends got theirs within 24 hours from the website.... keep checkin' but with Thanksgiving you might have got straight screwed