U-2 Dragonlady info

[AMN1]

This is a long shot, but will you be at the sheppard afb open house next month? It seems like this base is not on most pilots list of places to visit, lol. Can't really blame them though.

[Dingle]

also, do you guys ever take commercial flights when you're going somewhere w/o your family anymore? Can you take 38s to get around like that while maintaining currency?

[GovernmentMan]

I guess I never really thought about it, but now I'm wondering about it too. I'm guessing at a minimum, you'd have to be going someplace that can support a -38 (airport with LOA, UPT base, etc.), and the trip would have to be short enough so that you're not screwing over anybody else's currency based on aircraft availability back at Beale. Also, I could see commanders being leery of the appearance of FWA, bad publicity, or whatever, following the fiasco with the ANG F-16 commander.

Still, I'd like to hear more about it straight from somebody who's in the community.

[HiFlyer]

Well,..

1) The official AF position is still to close the U-2 program by 2015, but there are two outstanding Congressional requirements for the GH that must be complied with and, frankly, the GH doesn't look very good right now in terms of satisfying those requirements (won't go into them here). Not sure what will happen if the AF can't meet them, but Congress has said "no meet, no retire"! The requirements aren't necessarily black and white, so there's some wiggle room to argue over.

2) There is lots of PR about the new and exciting things the GH can do, like the Japanese support, that are loudly pushed. Not so much in public about what it turns out it can't do (that it was supposed to do).

3) With all the budget woes, the GH is a big ticket program that is being considered for the chopping block (with some others). We'll see where the FY13 budget goes.

4) As for the T-38s, no, they aren't available for your personal vacation trips. Not to say that they aren't occasionally used for cross-country trips (basic navigation proficency training), but they try to mesh them in with official business (airshows, "business trips" to other bases, recruiting visits to other bases, briefings to UPT bases, etc.). Sometimes if there is no official needs, an aircraft or two might go out on a weekend training trip, usually to/near T-38 capable bases so you can get fixed easily if you break, Its a nice break form the home field routine, but closely controlled by the Wing as part of the continuation training program. You're right about the program (not just Beale's, but the whole companion trainer concept) being a magnet for FWA reviews, so the Wing staff keeps a close eye on it. Like any other program, the Wing is allocated a fixed amount of flying time based on the approved training requirements and the number of authorized aircrews in the program, so you can't just fly anytime you want. You have to be careful about who should fly and how much time each pilot gets.

As for Lt Col Thomas's comments, well, Rick's the front man for the AF and is properly selling the AF's position. That's his job, and he does it pretty well (given what he has to work with). As for MKopak's comment, I guess I agree...the "non-functional manager" probably has an easier job...there's just so much more available ammunition to work with!

[Dingle]

following the fiasco with the ANG F-16 commander.

catch me up... what happened with the ANG F-16 commander?

[Dingle]

4) As for the T-38s, no, they aren't available for your personal vacation trips. Not to say that they aren't occasionally used for cross-country trips (basic navigation proficency training), but they try to mesh them in with official business (airshows, "business trips" to other bases, recruiting visits to other bases, briefings to UPT bases, etc.). Sometimes if there is no official needs, an aircraft or two might go out on a weekend training trip, usually to/near T-38 capable bases so you can get fixed easily if you break, Its a nice break form the home field routine, but closely controlled by the Wing as part of the continuation training program. You're right about the program (not just Beale's, but the whole companion trainer concept) being a magnet for FWA reviews, so the Wing staff keeps a close eye on it. Like any other program, the Wing is allocated a fixed amount of flying time based on the approved training requirements and the number of authorized aircrews in the program, so you can't just fly anytime you want. You have to be careful about who should fly and how much time each pilot gets.

That's what I figured. As much as the recruiters described it as "take a 38 up as much as you want to," I figured there were some more limitations on it, just wasn't sure how strict they were. Also, what type of flights are the local proficiency flights? Is there a lot of formation involved? Acro?

[HiFlyer]

That's what I figured. As much as the recruiters described it as "take a 38 up as much as you want to," I figured there were some more limitations on it, just wasn't sure how strict they were. Also, what type of flights are the local proficiency flights? Is there a lot of formation involved? Acro?

You start out with contact, instruments, and navigation for the basic qual. The local training areas are available just like UPT, so you can go there first and acro yourself silly before returning to the pattern. Later, as you have time and interest, and the wing has sortie availability, you may check out in formation. The last time I looked, there were only about six-eight sorties a month in the program so staying proficient in formation (given repeated absences when deployed 2+ months several times a year) is tough at first. As you advance to other positions that keep you home more (FTU IP, Group/Wing staff) you have more time (or more consistency) to maintain enough proficiency to fly formation. It depends on the individual.

[kapilot]

Longer life for the U-2? Gives me hope for a chance still. Anyone heard any rumors on recruiting forecasts?

Edited January 25, 2012 by kapilot

[WheelzUp]

Long time coming, but it looks like sanity has finally prevailed. As for the recruiting question....we are ALWAYS looking for good people to fly with us. Fill out an app dude.

[Spoo]

Longer life for the U-2?

(Well, given my avatar, I had to post something...)

[Guest Grind]

Sooooo, U-2's gonna start dropping now that GH is toast?

[HiFlyer]

Sooooo, U-2's gonna start dropping now that GH is toast?

Dropping? As in via UPT or the normal assignment process? Nope. It is, and always has been, a special duty assignment. You can talk to them about the application/interview process by calling the 1st RS at Beale. They have never stopped recruiting, and are still looking for good people.

[Guest Grind]

Dropping? As in via UPT or the normal assignment process? Nope. It is, and always has been, a special duty assignment. You can talk to them about the application/interview process by calling the 1st RS at Beale. They have never stopped recruiting, and are still looking for good people.

Was just joking, but thanks for the heads up.

[Spoo]

HiFlyer,

You need to fix your dino avatar.

Edit: apparently Flyer has an "L" in it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Spoo

[Dingle]

/cheer!

Looks like it'll still be around in a few years when I'll be qual'd to apply. This is a good day.

[HiFlyer]

HiFlyer,

You need to fix your dino avatar.

Edit: apparently Flyer has an "L" in it.

Damn...what happened to Dino??? I'll have to work on that.

EDIT: Can't find the darn thing. Here's some 1969 history instead.

Edited January 26, 2012 by HiFlyer

[spaceman]

EDIT: Can't find the darn thing. Here's some 1969 history instead.

I'm out of likes so here you go

[MKopack]

Damn...what happened to Dino??? I'll have to work on that.

EDIT: Can't find the darn thing. Here's some 1969 history instead.

Sorry, I see that pic and can only think of rocket launchers full of beer cans. Salute!

[murdocjxx]

So how do you let the people in your chain know you want this assignment without them thinking you're a douche bag looking to get out of the community? What's the PC way to go about it other than saying, "Hey i wanna fly U-2's."?

Edited January 26, 2012 by murdocjxx

[SurelySerious]

"Hey i wanna fly U-2's."

What's wrong with that? You simply stated a goal. If they infer something such as, "I hate everyone here, and this mission sucks so I want out," I doubt any sugar coating is going to help.

[Fudge]

Global Hawk to replace U-2 spy plane in 2015

“No U-2s in the Air Force in fiscal year ’15,” said Lt. Col. Rick Thomas, the Air Force’s Global Hawk functional manager

--------------------

That's a bold statement when "the [Global Chicken] has had some teething problems where it failed its operational test due to poor reliability and mediocre sensor performance" and "The sensors provide less range, less resolution and less collection capability than existing intelligence gathering aircraft".

O RLY!

[Learjetter]

So how do you let the people in your chain know you want this assignment without them thinking you're a douche bag looking to get out of the community? What's the PC way to go about it other than saying, "Hey i wanna fly U-2's."?

My $.02...

The assumption: you're an active-duty MAF or CAF pilot early in your career

The background:

In my experience, "Normal" career progression to O4/O5 is ops tour x 2 and a ALFA/ALO/Trainer/schoolhouse/FTU/OSA/WIC/TPS then ops or staff/school then ops or staff or command, etc. The order varies a little, but if you're within your first three assignments, applying to the U2 instead of schoolhouse or OSA or WIC or ALFA should not been seen as a bad thing. If you're "due" for your next ops tour, or the "dessert" tour (OSA/schoolhouse/FTU, etc) you could apply without raising too many eyebrows. It's selective-hire (meaning you have to make the cut to go) and Sq/CCs understand that, so most see going to the U2 as a good thing for YOU and the U2 program. They should also tell you the career impacting pros/cons of going to the U2 and of staying "mainstream."

You should not worry about "seeking information" about alternatives to mainstream careers. There are a LOT of cool flying jobs in the AF, and people get them by asking about them. Here are some non-mainstream examples: OSA, Test Pilot School, Big Safari, DCMA, AFFSA, green/blue door, exchange, DIA, FAA flight inspection, anything in AFMC's Test/Eval/Acquisition sections (usually after TPS or in ASC/ESC). MAJCOM staffs often have test/acquisition positions to run and fly new things the MAJCOMs are working on (C-130 AMP, uh, maybe scratch that one... KC-46, F-35, NextGen Bomber, you get the idea).

The technique:

If your Sq/CC or DO doesn't have the info, or presents a one-sided view of anything, then seek info from others (like here, or in other units in your airframe on deployments, or call the units you're interested in. You can also call/email your specific handler at AFPC: he or she will get notified of upcoming openings in these special units and may let you know about them. Search for "11x" (F/B/M/R, etc) authorizations on AMS website--it'll tell you the locations/units/rank of UMD positions you might find interesting. Search the AF Portal for announcements.

Finally, be a bro, because sometimes the units flying these missions call to recruit YOU, and that's the ONLY way they hire. Some are classified, some aren't, some you stay in (once you're in, STS) some are one-tour only and back to your MWS.

Good luck!

ETA: YMMV

Edited January 26, 2012 by Learjetter

[Lvgravy]

Can active duty Navy guys still apply for the program or has that changed?

[sputnik]

Can active duty Navy guys still apply for the program or has that changed?

From their website:

I'm a Navy/Marine/Coast Guard pilot and I want to pursue an Inter-service Transfer (IST) to the USAF to fly the U-2. How do I proceed?

First, you need to call the Air Force Personnel Center (AFPC; the equivalent of the Navy's BUPERS). They will tell you if you are eligible for an IST. For this, contact Mr. Clarence “CJ” Smith, via email at AFPC.Recall.ops@Randolph.af.mil; Subj: U-2 Applicant (your last name): They do not control U-2 assignments; they look purely at whether you meet the USAF's criteria for an IST. After you talk to AFPC, call us at DSN 368-4447.

[nrodgsxr]

My $.02...

The assumption: you're an active-duty MAF or CAF pilot early in your career

The background:

In my experience, "Normal" career progression to O4/O5 is ops tour x 2 and a ALFA/ALO/Trainer/schoolhouse/FTU/OSA/WIC/TPS then ops or staff/school then ops or staff or command, etc. The order varies a little, but if you're within your first three assignments, applying to the U2 instead of schoolhouse or OSA or WIC or ALFA should not been seen as a bad thing. If you're "due" for your next ops tour, or the "dessert" tour (OSA/schoolhouse/FTU, etc) you could apply without raising too many eyebrows. It's selective-hire (meaning you have to make the cut to go) and Sq/CCs understand that, so most see going to the U2 as a good thing for YOU and the U2 program. They should also tell you the career impacting pros/cons of going to the U2 and of staying "mainstream."

You should not worry about "seeking information" about alternatives to mainstream careers. There are a LOT of cool flying jobs in the AF, and people get them by asking about them. Here are some non-mainstream examples: OSA, Test Pilot School, Big Safari, DCMA, AFFSA, green/blue door, exchange, DIA, FAA flight inspection, anything in AFMC's Test/Eval/Acquisition sections (usually after TPS or in ASC/ESC). MAJCOM staffs often have test/acquisition positions to run and fly new things the MAJCOMs are working on (C-130 AMP, uh, maybe scratch that one... KC-46, F-35, NextGen Bomber, you get the idea).

The technique:

If your Sq/CC or DO doesn't have the info, or presents a one-sided view of anything, then seek info from others (like here, or in other units in your airframe on deployments, or call the units you're interested in. You can also call/email your specific handler at AFPC: he or she will get notified of upcoming openings in these special units and may let you know about them. Search for "11x" (F/B/M/R, etc) authorizations on AMS website--it'll tell you the locations/units/rank of UMD positions you might find interesting. Search the AF Portal for announcements.

Finally, be a bro, because sometimes the units flying these missions call to recruit YOU, and that's the ONLY way they hire. Some are classified, some aren't, some you stay in (once you're in, STS) some are one-tour only and back to your MWS.

Good luck!

ETA: YMMV

thanks.. all good info that I will research in the next year