Masters information (MBA/GRE)

[Jaded]

Wouldn't surprise me. However, commanders using it as a way to dole out DPs won't.

I agree, but, isn't that sort of insubordination? If Welsh is serious enough about this to change it on your PRF, shouldn't commanders fall in line?

[Helo Kitty]

Small part of me would feel a little shitty for all the mid and senior level Capts who scrambled to get theirs done before the lock after getting hounded to by the boss. Wonder if this would be grandfather'd in.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Helo Kitty

[magnetfreezer]

I agree, but, isn't that sort of insubordination? If Welsh is serious enough about this to change it on your PRF, shouldn't commanders fall in line?

Subordinate CCs can always be more restrictive - in whatever previous year was the "year of the Air Force emphasis on family", at least 6-9 dudes in AFCENT probably got Art. 15s for visiting their wives.

[Jaded]

So to you, "more restrictive" is the same as "completely contrary"?

[Bobby]

Small part of me would feel a little shitty for all the mid and senior level Capts who scrambled to get theirs done before the lock after getting hounded to by the boss. Wonder if this would be grandfather'd in.

And this line of thinking is exactly why things never seem to change...

[Helo Kitty]

And this line of thinking is exactly why things never seem to change...

Why I say 'only small part of me'. I would still support the decision to mask the AAD, some frusteration in the beginning, but still needs to happen.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Helo Kitty

[speedy782]

Regardless of whether it is masked or not, I would get it done to err on the conservative side so in 4-5 years when it becomes unmasked again, you aren't caught with your pants down.

Edited April 21, 2013 by speedy782

[Champ Kind]

Regardless of whether it is masked or not, I would get it done to err on the conservative side so in 4-5 years when it becomes unmasked again, you aren't caught with your pants down.

The heart of the usaf's problem, ladies and gentlemen:

Complete lack of faith in our "leaders".

[hindsight2020]

The heart of the usaf's problem, ladies and gentlemen:

Complete lack of faith in our "leaders".

Give the AF some credit, this is the heart of ALL of our labor problems. The concept of employer loyalty is dead. Our employer is no different. Take care of número uno and I don't mean lead buddy.

[Champ Kind]

Give the AF some credit, this is the heart of ALL of our labor problems. The concept of employer loyalty is dead. Our employer is no different. Take care of número uno and I don't mean lead buddy.

All the more reason to punch. I can remember being all bright-eyed about the Air Force, but it's turned into more of a place of employment than some kind of noble career.

When you look at it that way, and given the RIFs, budget issues, and shitty deployments I'd just assume be employed elsewhere.

[BFM this]

Give the AF some credit, this is the heart of ALL of our labor problems. The concept of employer loyalty is dead. Our employer is no different. Take care of número uno and I don't mean lead buddy.

All the more reason to punch. I can remember being all bright-eyed about the Air Force, but it's turned into more of a place of employment than some kind of noble career.

When you look at it that way, and given the RIFs, budget issues, and shitty deployments I'd just assume be employed elsewhere.

Hmm...

Not bagging on either of you here, but you've given me a thought. The erosion of employer loyalty, i think, has been an issue for quite some time--decades if not longer. The most apparent manifest of this being the disappearance of the employer sponsored pensions in favor of IRAs and then 401Ks, while leaving base pays level, or declining. The American worker little noticed this erosion in compensation over the two decades when they were implemented, given multiple recessions and recoveries to cover the tracks. No, I don't' think the slip of the union influence has been to blame--I think unions were a victim of their own erosion of usefulness as information flowed ever more freely.

So is the AF a victim of it's own desire to be more like it's Big Brother private Business? Is it adopting the more cut-throat attitude that has been prevalent in the efficiency driven B-schools and their progeny over the past 30 years?

As an example, I submit: was the Bathtub a by-product of AF leadership trying to save as many souls as they could, at the time? Or just myopic personnel management, as we all subscribe?

[guineapigfury]

Hmm...

Not bagging on either of you here, but you've given me a thought. The erosion of employer loyalty, i think, has been an issue for quite some time--decades if not longer. The most apparent manifest of this being the disappearance of the employer sponsored pensions in favor of IRAs and then 401Ks, while leaving base pays level, or declining. The American worker little noticed this erosion in compensation over the two decades when they were implemented, given multiple recessions and recoveries to cover the tracks. No, I don't' think the slip of the union influence has been to blame--I think unions were a victim of their own erosion of usefulness as information flowed ever more freely.

So is the AF a victim of it's own desire to be more like it's Big Brother private Business? Is it adopting the more cut-throat attitude that has been prevalent in the efficiency driven B-schools and their progeny over the past 30 years?

As an example, I submit: was the Bathtub a by-product of AF leadership trying to save as many souls as they could, at the time? Or just myopic personnel management, as we all subscribe?

The problem in bold is primarily a function of two things: rising health care costs are eating any potential raises and a virtually unlimited supply of unskilled labor from the rest of the world has held down the wages of people with no/few skills. Supply and demand is still in effect.

[Ravens52]

All the more reason to punch. I can remember being all bright-eyed about the Air Force, but it's turned into more of a place of employment than some kind of noble career.

When you look at it that way, and given the RIFs, budget issues, and shitty deployments I'd just assume be employed elsewhere.

Agreed... The act of serving your country and fighting for its freedoms has managed to escape the minds of the Air Force more and more. It's now a focus on job security and what can I do and what can I tell my bros to do to survive.

But, apparently it's been this way long before we signed up...

Edited April 23, 2013 by Ravens52

[Jaded]

I tried looking earlier in this thread for the answer but couldn't find it. I apologize if this has already been answered.

Can you start the AU OLMP on the leadership concentration, take the core courses, and then when you become a major select "switch" to the joint warfare concentration?

[BONE WSO]

That plan will not work out well. They let you rank order which classes you would prefer to take and I always rank ordered the leadership classes at the bottom and the core classes at the top. They ended up giving me all the leadership courses as my first 5 courses. Not sure if switching is allowed but I think if you tried to do it that way you would waste a lot of time and effort on the leadership classes that wouldn't count for anything later.

[ThreeHoler]

I tried looking earlier in this thread for the answer but couldn't find it. I apologize if this has already been answered.

Can you start the AU OLMP on the leadership concentration, take the core courses, and then when you become a major select "switch" to the joint warfare concentration?

Yes. It works just fine. You may wind up taking a few extra classes depending on your luck with the order of your classes.

I wound up taking one extra class by doing exactly what you asked.

[Pitt4401]

I tried looking earlier in this thread for the answer but couldn't find it. I apologize if this has already been answered.

Can you start the AU OLMP on the leadership concentration, take the core courses, and then when you become a major select "switch" to the joint warfare concentration?

J,

Thanks for asking this question, looks like you found the answer. Only thing I can add is when I was at SOS last year, a rep from AU did their company pitch for the OLMP and I remember saying that at the completion of the Capt's version that you could do 4 more courses and knock out ACSC.

I think it's already been covered here, but I'll give credit to Big Blue for offering a free, no-adsc option for those looking to check to box.

On a side note, question for the crowd...Is the OK State MBA still seen as the best value for a distance learning AACSB-certified for .mil folks?

[MilitaryToFinance]

Depends on how you define value. It's above University of Phoenix online MBA but nowhere near the caliber of UNC's online MBA program. However if you want a cheap MBA that is a step of the usual for-profit crap military people go for then it's a decent "value." I still wouldn't waste the time/money on it though. If you want to check the box then take the easiest route to checking the box, just go to AU or Toro and get a stupid military history masters. If you want an MBA because you want a real education/degree then go get a real MBA. You only get one chance at an MBA.

Edited May 27, 2013 by mappleby

[Bronco130]

Negative. Get an MBA from DL if you are an engineer.. so you can get a real engineering masters and a crap MBA.

[Cell Dweller]

Negative. Get an MBA from DL if you are an engineer.. so you can get a real engineering masters and a crap MBA.

I've seen this strategy work for a number of active duty engineers (AFSC 62E). They get an online MBA or management related MS degree in their first few years because their jobs give them plenty of time to work on it (no extended formal training, rarely deployed). That gives them a better record around the 2-6 year time frame they are eligible for AFIT. The only trick is that these 62E's wanted to get an engineering MS. Many do not want to go through the pain after getting their BS. This is however probably the 'easiest' way to do it. Not saying it is fair, but the Air Force, for what it is worth, wants these types in their ranks.

[MilitaryToFinance]

Negative. Get an MBA from DL if you are an engineer.. so you can get a real engineering masters and a crap MBA.

You are making the assumption he is an engineer and wants an engineering Master's degree. That's why I asked what he means by value. Personally after my BS in Mechanical Engineering I had no desire to ever get a MS in any engineering related field. If you think at some point in time you want to actually get out and not be an engineer having a real MBA will help. Having a crap, distance learning MBA nobody is going to take seriously. If you want to just check the box then get whatever crap degree is cheapest. Don't waste your 1 and only chance at an MBA on a garbage program.

[Jaded]

For those who have done the master's degree from Air University:

How serious are they about the quality of the research paper? The rest of the work has been sub-high school level expectations of critical analysis and writing ability, and I can't tell if it's going to be the same for the research paper as well.

[ThreeHoler]

Based on what I read from my peers over the 8 weeks of RE2, not very serious.

I wasted a good bit of effort and time writing mine to personal standards that were way too high for AU.

YMMV.

[Champ Kind]

In my little slice of heaven, AADs are no longer being tracked for strats at the squadron level. That column has been replaced by PT score.

[FUSEPLUG]

That column has been replaced by PT score.

Please, for the love of God almighty, tell me that last part is a joke.