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Thanks to valuable contribution from a loyal member, I have added a new ENJJPT section to the Military Pilot pages - due to popular demand and frequent ENJJPT questions.

Please critique these pages for me and let me know what y'all think.

NEW ENJJPT Section

HAPPY FLYING,

BASEOPS.net

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Great info about ENJJPT. As a recent grad of ENJJPT, all the info you have on there is pretty accurate. The only slight bit that may confuse some is where you mention merit ranking on there and talk about heavies. Unless things change this year, there is NO OPPORTUNITY to fly a cargo plane out of here. A student here recently hung up her pilot dreams when they (ENJJPT leadership) would not let her fly a RC-135 with her husband after she graduated (assuming she would have made it). She approached then within about a month of starting Tweets and they still would not let her out of the "Fighter committment" those studs here have. Kinda crapy, but this program is designed to create a fighter pilot, even though that doesn't always happen. Anyway, great site man and keep up the great work on here!!!!!!

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Guest Walter_Sobchak

Gotta question for ENJJPT Stud or anybody else who might know something about the assignment system out of Sheppard. I just finished Tweets here and have heard a third- or fourth-hand rumor that in addition to the MASS ranking, the IPs in both 37s and 38s write up evaluations reccomending or advising against specific aircraft assignments. I'm not talking about the 1122s or OQEs going to the T-38 side of the house, but supposedly there's something else that the students never get to see themselves. This is the first time I've heard anything about this - anybody know if there's something to this or if this is just something the rumor mill coughed up?

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Well, there's not anything official other than the OQE and the 1122s, but the IPs definately can have input as you described it. There's usually a few things that happen in this process.

1)While you can't really let anybody below the FAIP/Fighter cutoff line get a fighter or FAIP, it CAN go the other way.... a person might have high enough scores to be above the line for various reasons (there might be several people who don't deserve to be above the line, but the way a bell curve works, obviously not everyone is going to be that low is--this is just one reason) but the IPs don't feel that person is ever going to be safe in a single-seat aircraft or is not the kind of person they want to work with for the next 3 years as a FAIP. If this is the case, they often can "influence" (read: change) assignments around. I believe this would usually happen before the SNR (or whoever does assigments at the UPT bases) runs though the list to make assignments, but changes have happened as late as few hours before assignment night. I don't think they would ever make anything type specific (saying a particular student Joe can fly a Eagle, but don't put him in a Viper!) though.

2) They often can "massage" (as my SNR put it) FAIPs. Most often the dudes at the top of the class don't want to FAIP, so they are left with a dilemna. You don't want to make the guys the did the best take a assignment they don't want, but you also don't want the guys at the bottom training new pilots for the next 3 years, so they have to find someone in the middle. They then ask the IPs who they think would make the best FAIPs and sometimes even talk to some of the potential FAIPs, and then they make their decision from there.

Having said this though, I want to add that I'm still very new to the IP world and assignment process.. if I've given any incorrect info, any current/former AETC IPs feel free to jump in and correct me...

As far as being notified before assignment night, it depends on the SNR and the student,and where the FAIP slot is. Some guys want it to be a suprise, no matter what it is. Obviously if a FAIP slot was in the top half of your dream sheet, they wouldn't tell you unless the two weren't together (I had -38 in my top 3 and the -37 wasn't number 4.... they told me ahead of time). It kind of depends on what you want.

[ 07. April 2004, 21:54: Message edited by: ENJJPT stud ]

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ENJJPT stud is pretty much right on.

Unofficially, the IPs have a huge say in the ranking. Officially, it is the Flt/CC who writes the recommendation, but it is after hours of consulting with all the instructors in the flight.

For guys finding out where they are before assignment night, it seems like the trend for about as long as I've known has been to leave it a surprise. When I went through, our class was told exactly what was in the drop and were we ranked before the drop. At the drop, we were teleconferenced to the other two bases (Sheppard wasn't included) and you stood up in order or ranking to pick your jet from what was available. Shortly after, they changed to keeping everything a suprise. The Flt/CC will know a couple days in advance what everybody is getting, but it's up to him whether he wants to tell the students - or even the IPs. While I was an IP at Columbus, no Flt/CC ever revealed this to his IPs.

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Guest Metalhead

Yup, right on. I'll throw in some more for your reading enjoyment. :rolleyes: It's a lonnng-assss post but some good info for you studs.

It's pretty much the norm at XL that the Flight Commander let's the IP's in on what the drop is. The studs are told a day or two what the OVERALL drop is (meaning for Laughlin+Vance+Columbus) usually, and NOT specifically what's allocated to Laughlin. That way the studs can fill out what they really want, and not try to game their drop as much.

For instance: "Well the FC told me I'm #7 and there are 5 C-17's and I think there are 5 or 6 guys above me that want them, and that's really what I want too, but I'm probably not gonna get one. So I'm gonna put C-5's down as my #1 'cause there's only 1 of those. That should give me a better chance, since I don't want a KC-135."

You hear that some times, and the reality of it is the FC MAY be able to trade a C-17 for that C-5 with another base if, for example, there was another kid at that base who wanted a C-5 over a C-17. Happens. So usually the Stud's aren't told what is specifically slated to the base. Just the overall.

Now to answer the 1st question. Is there anything official that lets the IP's influence what airplane you might get? Yup. 1st let's look at what governs the IP's, etc:

AETCI36-2205 Formal Aircrew Training Administration and Management

5.14.3 Track Assignment Procedures:

5.14.3.1 ... The student's assigned IP will make a training recommendation for each track on the AF Form 3849. The flight commander will concur of nonconcur with remarks. ... The recommendation will be based on each student's demonstrated skills and potential to complete advanced training.

Continuing on, [The SQ/CC will...]

5.14.3.2.3 ...provide the best match of the student's skills, potential, desires, and available training quotas. Students will receive their first choice of an advanced training track if it is available and if the individual student's IP and flight commander recommend the student for that track.

AF Form 3849 is the preference worksheet.

What you should realize when reading this is -- it allows IP / flight commander(FC) subjectivity to enter into the picture. If you score high enough to get a T-38 but your IP and/or FC don't think you have the potential to handle it. They can deny it. Delve deeper:

5.15.2 MWS Assignment Procedures:

5,15,2,1 ...students will complete AF Form 3849, indicating their choice of MWS aircraft. The assigned IP will make a first assignment instructor pilot (FAIP) recommendation for each student... Base the recommendation on the student's demonstrated flying and interpersonal skills, maturity, and potential to return as an FAIP. The flight commander will concur or nonconcur...

...

5.15.2.4 WG/CC's will be informed of other bases' aircraft assignments. If an appropriate MWS assignment is not available in the assignment block, WG/CCs are authorized to work assignment swaps (within an assignment block) with other WG/CC's to better meet Air Force needs and student desires.

...

5.15.2.6 The WG/CC will be actively involved in actions affecting JSUPT students in the assignment selection process and will make the final decision on the best match of student's skill, potential, and desire with available aircraft.

Now look at some of the phrases in there:

interpersonal skills

maturity

potential

appropriate MWS assignment

Air Force needs

student's skill

WHAT IT'S SAYING, is if the IP's don't think you can handle a C-17, they can give you a whacker, (no offense to you whackers out there), even if your scores are good enough to get you one. Now realize it does say "WG/CC" These decisions aren't made lightly. The man delegates authority down, gets recommendations up, etc. Don't know how often this happens in the 38's, but T-1's see it -- probably one person in every 3 or 4 classes. So not very often. I've seen it both ways, once a guy was shithot but tanked his check rides. So his MASS score was way low (I can't remember or figure out what 'MASS' stands for, even after reading the reg, but it's the rank merit score and it's defined on p104 of: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/ae...etci36-2205.pdf ) and hence what he should have received was, how do you say, an airframe that is not typically picked by the top individuals. We (the IP's, the FC and the SQ/CC) made the decision that, due to the needs of the Air Force, this person should be in a 'more demanding airframe.' I've seen a really shitty guy get put in a plane that would never go low level, even though his scores and desires would have had it that way. He was no shit f'n scary down low. It was a good decision.

Now I know the IP's don't discuss any of this with you guys and you don't get issued this reg., but these are the rules of the game (and hence why I posted them). In the end it comes down to what everybody has always said:

Try hard, have a good attitude, be here to learn, and it'll all work out in the end.

Don't think that because (you think) a particular IP doesn't like you, that your chances of 'success' are low. You can bet your *** that the IP's all talk and have a BIG picture of how people are doing and what they deserve. The only person who is going to screw you is you.

So go out and fly.

'course buying you IPs doesn't hurt!

[ 08. April 2004, 15:05: Message edited by: Metalhead ]

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The Cadre at my ROTC det keep telling me that the downside to ENJJPT is that if you wash out you will not fly in the USAF period. It would seem to be to same way for JSUPT or UPT. My question is how big of a wash out rate is there for ENJJPT? I know for JSUPT there are remedial training programs to keep folks from getting cut, is the same true for ENJJPT? Also, how much more intense is ENJJPT from the other UPTs?

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There are actually two formation checkrides at SPS: a "basic" and "advanced."

The basic check is mostly close in formation...wingwork, close / extended trail, rejoins, etc.

The advanced check contains a 90 / 45 / 180 tactical turn, tactical rejoins, FM, and some more extended trail. Basic stuff is thrown in there for sampling, and it's all fair game. There are 15-ish (can't remember the exact number off the top of my skull) "advanced" form rides prior to the check, and FM is done on all but 2 of those rides.

I don't know how this differs from SUPT, but I'm curious (sts).

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Guest T38driver

Fury220,

Phlash gave a run down of the tweet...now on to Phase III...

The Formation phase has one check ride, at the end that includes all the items you listed. (Close in and Tactical Formation in addition to Extended Trail). At CBM, the student is required to complete tact turns, wing work, the g-x, and Extended trail to complete the check ride.

As for the blocks. Two blocks (4 rides each), before initial form solo (Pitch and puke, no tactical). Then 4 more rides, concentrating on tactical. Initial Tac Form solo. Then they go to a 12 ride block before the check. Later, they'll move into 4-ship and advanced form. They'll do the advanced form after assignment night.

Thats a general overview, let me know if you have any specific questions.

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Guest terribletravis

Howdy all,

I am new to all the posts but I could not find any good information on the ENJJPT program. When applying for a Pilot slot, we were given the option to try for ENJJPT but when I looked it up, I could not find much information. I have now received a slot for ENJJPT and want to find out more information about the program.

This is what I know:

ENJJPT is specifically held at Shepard AFB, TX

About 50-60% of the class is Europeans

There is no track selection after Phase 2; everyone goes Fighter/Bomber track

If any of these statements are wrong, please tell me.

Here are some questions I have:

I know that currently all they are using is T-37's but I read a post (rumor?) that the T-6's will be solely in the program by Summer 08?

What is the actual difference between the two programs (aside from track select)? Is the ENJJPT program a whole lot harder?

Is there any extra weight a person has after going to ENJJPT as compared to JSUPT? (i.e. promotions, job assignments, ect...)

I might have other questions that pop up in relation to comments posted on these.

Thanks to everyone that helps me to understand everything!

Gig 'em!

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I know that currently all they are using is T-37's but I read a post (rumor?) that the T-6's will be solely in the program by Summer 08?

No. Won't be all T-6 until 2009, should start students in T-6s late 2008

What is the actual difference between the two programs (aside from track select)? Is the ENJJPT program a whole lot harder?

Not harder (sts), just different

Is there any extra weight a person has after going to ENJJPT as compared to JSUPT? (i.e. promotions, job assignments, ect...)

No

And as a bonus, I feel compelled to add that it seems like you just kinda applied for ENJJPT as an afterthought and didn't really know what you were getting into. In which case, you may REALLY end up regretting that later. Hope I'm wrong!

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Guest Gumps

What separates the two?

Primarily the international flavor you get at ENJJPT, which is a little stonger than at UPT. ENJJPT also has some syllabus differences, and is currently working on another syllabus change, which will drastically change the current system. You've probably heard, but they are moving toward taking the T-6 and making it a 8-9 month program, to include tactical formation, something done only in the T-38 in the past. Also, there was talk of removing the bottom dude or two (after the T-6 portion of training) and putting them in a T-1/T-44 at a UPT base/Navy base. That would try to eliminate the aforementioned guys that decided half way through that a fighter is not for them, and also eliminate sending guys who otherwise at UPT would've gone Tones anyhow, into a T-38.

I have spoken to dudes at UPT, and it seems much more of a melting pot of instructors as well. At ENJJPT you have US and internationals, but they all were fighter pilots for the most part, with the exception of your Buff and Bone dudes, and the random Italian C-130 pilots.

As for the flying, it is mostly the same, I've heard there are some things at ENJJPT that are done that aren't at UPT and vice-versa (FM, continuous extended trail, etc)

The bottom line is that you've gotten yourself into a program that is designed to build fighter pilots, so I hope you know what you asked for and received. Let me know if you have any specific questions regarding ENJJPT, and good luck.

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Guest Gumps

Anyone who says either ENJJPT or UPT prepared them "better" for IFF than the other is a tool bag.

Nothing done in pilot training matters after pilot training.

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Found this on the Facebook ENJJPT group...posted by someone who got ENJJPT FY 07 who had asked someone from his Det who went through circa 04/05...long but worth the read:

Hey dude, of course I remember. Congrats on getting ENJJPT. It will be awesome. A lot of people ask what you can do to get ready for pilot training, what to study, etc. The truth is, there's not really much you can do to get ready for it. Any amount of studying you do beforehand will only put you a couple of days ahead of everybody else when you get there, and then you'll all be even again. You will be somewhat overwhelmed with the amount of things you are supposed to learn once you start the flying portion. You'll hear "like drinking from a firehose" all the time.

As far as other things to expect, the timeline sort of works as follows: you'll start with aerospace physiology first, which is the easy part of the program. You'll go out early in the morning, practice PLF's, sit through classes about GLOC's and spatial disorientation, etc. I think that lasts a couple of weeks, if I remember. After that, you'll start the systems academics phase for the T-37 (I don't think they've upgraded to the T-6 yet, but I might be mistaken). The contractors they have are awesome teachers and could build a tweet from spare parts if you gave them a couple of hours. You'll cover engines, hydraulics, electrics, etc., the whole gambit. Then, at some point, I think it totals up to be about a month after you've formally started the program, you start reporting to your flight room instead of the academics room every morning. You'll meet your instructor pilots (IP's) and you'll start getting put on the schedule to fly.

Expect to fly about 4 times a week or so, as long as the weather is decent. If your class gets behind they might start double-turning you (fly twice in one day) to try to get you caught up. There are five flying phases in the Tweet. Contact, Instrument, Low Level Navigation, Advanced Contact, and Formation.

Once you start getting put on the schedule to fly, life is a blur for the next two months. You'll step to the jet on your dollar ride and you'll have absolutely zero SA on what's going on. You'll barely be able to get the jet started in the correct order like you've already practiced a hundred times in the LINK simulator. Everything seems to happen at ludicrous speed. In the contact phase, you're just learning the basics of flying the jet from point A to point B, how to fly a military overhead pattern, how to put the jet into a fully developed spin and then recover, how to land, single-engine ops, emergency procedures, just the basics. After you have about 5 or 6 contact rides, you'll start flying the instrument phase simultaneously. This is to give you more practice in the VFR pattern with an IP next to you before you solo. Then you'll fly a mix of contact rides and instrument rides as you go, and before you know it you're in the VFR pattern with no IP next to you.

Solo is awesome. You're scared as ###### when you step to the jet, but once you get airborne it's sweet as hell. Your SA is 10 times better because there is no pressure from the right seat. Your first solo ride is in the VFR pattern (the IP actually flies the first half of the sortie with you, then you land, shut down the right engine, he climbs out and you fire it back up again and take off. He then walks over to the RSU shed to watch you in the pattern and help you out on the radio if necessary). After that, you'll be full-up cleared to the MOA, to Hacker (the auxiliary field where you practice pattern stuff). You live for the solo rides and you actually start looking forward to those sorties instead of sucking with the IP seeing everything you get wrong.

The instrument phase is the most grueling. It's tough enough that you are flying the contact phase and the instrument phase simultaneously, but you alsol have academics every day, and you're also flying LINK missions every day (T-37 SIM with no screen so you can practice instrument procedures). There is a LOT of stuff to learn about instrument procedures.

You'll have your first checkride at the end of the contact phase. It's pretty nerve-wracking, but it's not too big of a deal. It's actually kind of nice when you get the contact check out of the way, because then you can just focus completely on the instrument phase.

Towards the end of the instrument phase, you'll start flying "out-and-backs." You fly IFR to some other airport, grab some lunch, and then fly back. You're responsible for filing the flight plans, doing fuel computations, planning divert options, etc. Then, at the end of the instrument phase, you'll have another checkride.

Here is where the program starts to get money. At about the same time you finish contact and instruments, you also finish up with academics and LINK missions as well. Congratulations, you just made it into the Tweet Flying Club. You'll find that you actually have time to do things like go out to dinner during the week or watch a movie at home or whatever. The fog finally starts to lift a little and you think you might actually make it through this program.

After contact and instruments, you'll start low level navigation. You'll build maps and fly low level routes to arrive over a target at a specified time. This phase is awesome because you're cruising at 500 feet and you can actually look outside again as opposed to the instrument phase. Low level nav is a short phase, only like 8 or 9 rides or so. Then you'll start flying advanced contact. Advanced contact is more of the same stuff in basic contact, but now you add in aerobatic maneuvers. About half of the advanced contact portion is solo. You already know how to do all the contact shit, so it's a pretty easy phase respectively.

You'll also start flying the formation phase along with advanced contact. Formation is probably the most fun phase of the whole program. You'll hamfist the first formation ride, but you'll get the hang of it. You'll do fingertip whifferdills, extended trail exercises, echelon turns, etc. Then you'll have your advanced contact and formation checkrides (sometimes only separated by a couple of days or so) and you're done with the Tweet.

Then there's the T-38. It's an awesome machine compared to the Tweet, full up with afterburner and everything. You'll move to your new flight room on the T-38 side of the house, and you'll start at the bottom again.

The T-38 phase is easier than the Tweet phase. The program runs: Contact, Instrument, Basic Formation, Advanced Formation, and Low-level Navigation again. Here's the difference though: You already know how to study. You already know the instrument procedures. The T-38 is where you actually get good at them. Formation is the same, but now you add the tactical formations and stuff. Like the T-37 phase, the first couple of months or so are somewhat difficult, but not as bad. Same deal with the LINK missions and academic classes for about the first half of T-38s. And then you're done.

A quick side note on non-flying related stuff. If you drink alcohol, you'll drink like a mother######er at Sheppard. You'll NEED to. Everyone always studies all day on Sunday, so Friday night you'll have a ton of stress built up from the week, and you and your bros will go out and get absolutely wrecked. I never drank in college like I did on the weekends at Sheppard. Woke up several times underneath my truck staring at the driveshaft with Carl's Jr. littered all over the place. If you don't drink, no worries, you'll still hang out and just take it easy on Friday and Saturday. So get ready for that, you'll have all kinds of crazy stories. The international dudes are pretty cool too, they make things interesting.

So that's about it in a nutshell. Of all the uncertainties, I can guarantee it will be the best year of your life. Pretty awesome when you finally pin on the wings. So here are some parting recommendations:

1) Go to Kinko's when you get thereand get the big packet of gouge. They'll know what you mean when you ask them. I think there are a couple in town there, so call first to find out which one has it. It's got lots of useful information and stuff that previous classes have compiled. It's good reference data, but remember, it is gouge so it might not be 100% accurate.

2) Start practicing ground ops as soon as you can when you get there. Get someone from a couple of classes ahead of you to walk you through it a couple of times. They should be glad to. The better you are at ground ops on the first ride, the more brain bytes you can dedicate towards the stuff that actually matters.

3) Chairfly. I know it sounds gay, and it's difficult to do for long periods of time, but it will pay off huge. Talk out loud to yourself when you are chairflying if you need to to keep your mind focused. Go over every detail of your flight the next day, repeatedly. Trust me, it helps big time. Also, schedule yourself for practice SIMS if you have the spare time.

4) I don't know if you're IFR qualified or not, but the more exposure you have with instruments, the better off you could be during the really grueling phase. It might be worth checking out on Microsoft Flight Simulator or something.

5) Help your bros. Not everyone will do as well as you will. Offer to take them to the SIM and help them practice whatever they need help on. Share info you get about test questions, etc. The IP's are just looking to see if you guys can work as a team.

That's about it dude. It will be pretty awesome. When does your class start? Do you know anyone that will be in your class?

Anyway, hit me back if you have any questions or whatever about the program. I got a little long-winded, but it should give you a little bit of an idea of what to expect.

Also, when I left, I think they might have been building a new simulator building or something. So the syllabus may have changed a little bit since I was there. Anyway best of luck and I hope you do well.

  • Upvote 1

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Searched and found this page so I figured I'd just piggyback it on this one.

Our flight leader came back from a meeting with the news that the T-44 and helo tracks were now a possibility out of Sheppard for dudes who the Cadre feel won't do well in 38's rather than just washing out of all flying. From what I understand one guy is headed to or will be soon to the T-44 track.

Edit: Just for the record I actually think this is a good deal and not some "crazy oh no!" deal as the thread name kind of implies. Just found a thread about Sheppard and added this at the end.

Edited by egochecks

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Guest EN_STUD

The guy you are referring to was in my class and finished Tweets and even went to the fuge. The day before he was supposed to start 38s, the squadron commander stopped him in the hallway and told him he isn't starting after all and he has the choice to go to helos or T-44s. He chose T-44s. About 8 months ago we heard this was a possibility for any ENJJPT student so it's not that big of a suprise they actually did it...but I'm sure it was for the dude that it happened to.

During commader's call yesterday, the WG/CC, when talking about the new T-44/Helo options said, "this does not mean ENJJPT is becoming a full blown SUPT track select, but I'm not saying it wont be in the future".

Also, one the ENJJPT 2008 changes is going to be the option for NATO countries to send their students to Sheppard for just 38s. Spain and Denmark are expected to start sending students once this option is available.

Just to clarify, the dude that is going to T-44s DID finish Tweets. He struggled throughout with 3 out of 5 checkrides busted and 2 FPCs, but did end up finishing. He was one hardest workers in our flight...knew all the GK/prcedures better than anyone, but just couldn't put it togeher in the air.

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so if a stud just doesn't want to do the fighter thing, they're still "stuck" and don't have a choice to go 44s, but if the leadership thinks they can't handle 38s then they will go to a 44? I know several guys who could definitely do well in 38s, but didn't want to do that gig. Seems people like that at EN are still stuck, despite this new 44/helo thing. Correct?

That's the way I understand it and that's pretty much how the CC made it sound in the commander's call. I'm sure there are guys who would like the option, but I would definitely consider that a rarity. We knew going to Sheppard locked us into 38s. I think I remember signing some kind of form saying I understood that ENJJPT meant only fighter/bomber option. My point is, you're right, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who considers themselves "stuck."

As far as the wing cc making these changes, I don't think this was all his doing. The previous CC made comments about the new options coming down the chain months ago. The new CC seems to be a great guy. Definitely had a good time at the roof stomp when he moved in.

Last thing. The guy who is going another track isn't getting treatment unavailable to others. He's just the first one to catch the new program.

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Guest Ward104
When applying for a Pilot slot, we were given the option to try for ENJJPT but when I looked it up, I could not find much information. I have now received a slot for ENJJPT and want to find out more information about the program.

I am curious, when applying for a pilot slot are all applicants given the option to try for ENJJPT?

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Guest salokin
I am curious, when applying for a pilot slot are all applicants given the option to try for ENJJPT?

Yeah, you sign a memo saying you want to apply, and then they throw your name in the hat.

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Guest Ward104

I see, thanks. So I take it the chances of getting into ENJJPT is even less than UPT. If you sign up for ENJJPT and don't make it, can you still get into UPT?

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I see, thanks. So I take it the chances of getting into ENJJPT is even less than UPT. If you sign up for ENJJPT and don't make it, can you still get into UPT?

If you sign up and don't get selected, yes you can go to UPT. If you sign up and don't make it through the program, no you can't go back to UPT.

If you've already made up your mind to accept the ENJJPT slot and are just looking for more information, I would suggest focusing on people's posts who have been through Sheppard. ENJJPT IP and FURY220 are good sources of information. There will always be dudes arguing and whining over UPT vs ENJJPT, Academy vs ROTC, fighter vs heavy, Yankees vs Red Sox... ignore it because neither side will convince the other side who's right.

Edited by FallingOsh

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Right now ENJJPT only has Norwegian, Dutch, German, and Italian students. There is a Greek instructor hanging around on the 38 side and a Canadian on the 37 side. I think that there is also a Portuguese somewhere but I'm not sure on that. With the new ENJJPT 2008 syllabus more countries are probably going to start sending studs again but we'll see. As far as foreign guys graduating at the top of their class there is usually a German who gets DG. Overall, though it is really class dependent. I wouldn't say that one country is consistently better than another, but the foreigners do seem to have some advantages over the American students at times. Most of the foreigners here seem to have gone through more stringent screening to get here and they have flown a more in-depth type of IFS where they get acro experience etc. However, think of it just like you would with Americans. Some dudes go to pilot training who flew for a regional airline and have 2,000 hours. No guarantee there that the guy is going to be #1 or that he is even going to be in the top. Pilot training seems to have a way of throwing curve balls to people and you can't predict in the beginning before day one who will be #1 on the last day. Another thing to remember is that ENJJPT is a NATO program and not a U.S. program, therefore some people say that there is some politics that goes along with that not only for leadership positions etc but also with students i.e. ranking at the end etc. I personally have not seen this on my own but there are people out there who believe that it does go on so that might be why some people are saying that the foreigners are normally in the top of their classes.

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Don't forget the Spanish SNR, who flies T-38s for the 90th. Turkey no longer sends students here, either...although they have one IP (Turkish SNR). (Hell, if you're the only one at ENJJPT from your nation, you're not really the "Senior National Representative." More like "Only National Representative.")

Also, your last couple sentences (highlighted in bold) are complete and utter horsesh!t, and it sounds like you have been talking with some giant SNAPs. When it comes to the final ranking decisions, there isn't really a lot of "decision-making" about it. What actually happens is the TIMS results are glonkulated by TIMS and are run through a GIANT macro in Excel. MASS rankings come directly from numerical flight data.

Sure, there is a *SMALL* amount of input that comes from the IPs in the flight, but this has a very tiny impact compared to all the flying data that's thrown-into the mix via TIMS.

Sorry to disappoint, but when it comes to the final rankings, there is no cigar-smoke-filled secret back room. Deciding the drop, though...well, that can be a different story...

What you DID say correctly has to do with the "pre-ENJJPT" flight screening differences between the different nations. The Dutch and the German studs have pretty extensive screening programs, and those guys get quite a lot of flight experience before they make the move to Wichita Falls. Generally, it shows...which begs the question: why aren't we doing more of it for US potential SUPT/ENJJPT students?

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I did cursory Google and BaseOps search but didn't hit upon a definitive answer. Can Guard and Reserve go ENJJPT?

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Guest Flying_Bulldog
I did cursory Google and BaseOps search but didn't hit upon a definitive answer. Can Guard and Reserve go ENJJPT?

I don't know about Reserve but there are three Guard guys in my class. So, yes, Guard guys CAN come here if they are slated for a fighter/bomber that requires the -38.

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