Safety School (Albuquerque, AMIC)

[B-O-double-Z]

I'm going to go to Kirtland AFB next month for the FSO course. It's about three weeks long. I'll probably be the oldest guy ever to go throught the damn thing, but it AFRC is willing to pay for it, I'm willing to put it on my resume. I heard it's a pretty cool school.

Anyway...I haven't spent much time in Albuquergue over the years, just a bunch of gas-n-goes and the occasional RON. I'm going to fly my own small airplane out there for the TDY and have a rental car too.

Couple questions for anyone in the know...

What's a decent FBO, either on ABQ or any of the outlying airports, to park a small plane for a few weeks?

For anyone who's gone through the course, what are the chances of getting a Friday off? I want to go to Hawgsmoke at Davis-Monthan AFB and get there on Thursday, March 23rd, in time to drink copious amounts of beer.

Gouge on where to go in Albuquerque (bars, restaurants, etc.)? I've been down around the U of NM a little bit. That seems pretty good. Any areas better than that?

Anywhere especially interesting, within a couple hundred miles, to fly a small plane to on the weekends?

[Flare]

Cutter Aviation is where we usually gas-n-go at rather than using TA at Kirtland. We park military a/c there with no RON fee.....don't know if it would be that same for a civilian a/c. If so, you could get gas at Cutter and then park over on the TA ramp..you just have to fill out a form to be able to do so.

If you're into skiing, you're going to get there for the end of the skiing season, so you could probably do that on the weekends.

I haven't been to Safety school, but I'm betting that your chances of getting a Friday off are slim-to-none. You probably have waaaaayyyy too many unnecessary powerpoint slides to review to be able to give you a whole day off!

[Hacker]

My favorite restaurant in ABQ is The County Line BBQ. Sits up N/NE of town at the base of Sandia Mountain.

[ClearedHot]

Lots of old dudes go through the FSO couse. They like to send folks through the school then make them cheif of Wing Safety prior to taking a squadron.

As for places to go, Gardunos (spelling), is a good mexican place down by the mall, but I have heard there are some new places that are even better. I think there is a Macaroni Grill across the parking lot from Gardunos.

I am not sure if the area around the base is still bad, but I stayed at a hotel just off base on the main strip and one of the dudes that was out there with me got robbed in the 7-11 acrosss the street.

[ 19. February 2006, 09:10: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[B-O-double-Z]

Lots of old dudes go through the FSO couse. They like to send folks through the school then make them cheif of Wing Saefty prior to taking a squadron.

Clearedhot,

Yeah, you are probably right. In my case, I'm an LTC in the Air Reserve Technician (ART) program. I have to keep going till I'm 56 years old (currently 41). I figured if I don't make the "A-Team" and become a full colonel, then wing safety will be a place to hang out in my golden years and still fly like a lieutenant. There are worse things.

I haven't been to Safety school, but I'm betting that your chances of getting a Friday off are slim-to-none. You probably have waaaaayyyy too many unnecessary powerpoint slides to review to be able to give you a whole day off!

ENJJPT IP,

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I'll start trying to put a marker in as soon as I can. I really want to go to Hawgsmoke. I've been to all of them, flown in two of them (my four-ship took 2nd in 2000, and we won it all 2002), and I designed the competition for the last one (2004, which got rained out). The Guard/Reserves have hosted them all in the past and it's been a rockin' good time. We'll see how the active duty pulls it off. I have my doubts.

[Guest sleepy]

BOZZ,

If you're going to be there and free during the first weekend of March, check out the Cactus Fly-In at Case Grande, AZ.

[B-O-double-Z]

Sleepy,

My TDY at Kirtland doesn't start till March 6th, so the time frame for the Case Grande fly-in doesn't work out. Casa Grande, AZ is a long way from Albuquerque.

ENJJPT IP,

I haven't skied in NM. Where do you suggest? I know about Taos and Angle Fire. Are there any other places? Taos is only about 100 NM from ABQ. I might try heading up there for a weekend.

[Mambo]

Taos would be your best bet. I've skied there a couple of times. Snow is excellent, even late in the season and the mountain is challenging. It's hard to find a bad restaraunt in Santa Fe, and the night life is pretty cool.

Angel Fire is pretty scenic if you like the high desert. Didn't ski there late in the season though so wouldn't know about snow quality. Lincoln county is home to alot of old west history, Billy the Kid and all that. There is a museum in Ft Sumner with his grave and some interesting stuff you'll find just driving around.

Hopefully you'll get some time off to enjoy the area...

[busdriver]

I could give you a list as long as my arm of good places to eat in town. Truth be told, there are very few restaurants in Albuquerque that I don't like. There are a boatload of bars, my personal favorite is Kelly's, they have a list of 20 or so in house micro brews that are great.

[Guest Hoser]

B-O-Double-Z,

I went thru the FSO course back in Apr 04.

The only days we got completely off were the normal federal holidays.

The class is definetly banker hours. Classes normally start at 0800, 1 - 1.5 hr for lunch, and depending on who teaches the afternoon session, out by 15-1600. There were many a day I got at least 9 holes of golf in before it got too dark.

Mr Hannah is a great instructor and keeps the classes fun. I didn't like Mr Preteska. He spent a lot of time in AETC and seemed to have a hair across his arse. The classroom academics were somewhat painful, but once you get out into the crash lab, it gets more bearable.

There are a couple of writing assignments that you'll have to do. One of them is an F-4 mishap that each person has to do using the AF web-based database (called AFSAS). Everyone also has to write a safety article for submission to the AF Safety Mag. Once you get to the crash lab, you'll be divided into groups and your group will have to write a final report for an F-16 Class A, as well as the powerpoint brief that would be given by the SIB Pres to the ACC/CC. If you are interested, I have electronic copies of all. Let me know and I can e-mail them to you. Not sure how much the course has changed in 2 years, but it's better than nothing.

My wife came (STS) for a visit over one of the weekends. We took the Tram to the top of the Sandia Moutains and ate at the High Finance Restrauant. Little Pricey but the food was good and the view was nice.

Cap-10

[ 19. February 2006, 12:08: Message edited by: Cap-10 ]

[B-O-double-Z]

Hoser,

Yeah, I'll take you up on the offer of your notes from the course. I'll PM you with my work email address.

I did heard everyone has to do an article for AF Safety Magazine. I've been giving that some thought. How's this for a working title..."For all the sh!t I've pulled...If I can live through 4000 hours in a single-seat fighter...maybe you can too."

MajorMadMax,

It's looking slim for me to get out there to D-M too. Maybe while at Safety School I can feign sickness, or temporary insanity, or the death of a pet, or some other reason to skip out of a Friday. I can tell them I'm on the "Senior Advisory Council for Hawgsmoke." Here at the FTU, we have senior officers skipping out of formal training all the time for dubious reasons.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Sadie's (sp?) is great New Mexican food, there is place called taste of Guadalajara or something like that right out the Gibson gate. As far as bars go, any place you end up on Central is great, my personal favorite being Maloney's. There are a couple of good places to eat between the university and the bars on Central too, like Il Viccino. Oh, and if you are given the choice between building 1911 and sleeping in your plane, take the plane.

[HeloDude]

If you want a change from the typical bar scene downtown on Central (though Maloney's is actually pretty decent) try going to Billy's Long Bar north on San Mateo and Horse and Angel (really hot waitresses) that's northeast of the base I think near Montgomery but I could very well be wrong. Those places are pretty cool and the crowd sometimes is a little better than dealing with the typical Albuquerque locals you see downtown.

[Guest Jollygreen]

Check costs at Double Eagle Airport if your going to fly in, should be lower then ABQ for a GA aircraft.

Sadies is definately the best food in Albuquerque. Bit of a drive, but worth it.

[Guest SnakeT38]

There used to be another ski area over by Los Alamos that was open on Wed, weekend and all holidays. Other than the little area on Sandia Peak, Santa Fe will be closest to ABQ.

[Berry]

First, congrats on the slot. I'll second Hoser's words on the bankers hours. The instructors will do what they can to get you out of there at a reasonable (~1600) hour. Having gone to the FSO course a year ago, one of the best things about the class are the instructors. Mr. Hannah is great, but I have to disagree with Hoser's opinion of Mr. Preteska. I think his safety knowledge and sense of humor make up for his eccentricites. I seem to remember him mentioning flying gliders around there. If you get Doug (forgot his last name), count yourself lucky. I can't explain it, but you just get the feeling that back in the day, he was probably a goof ball. Smart? Yes. Serious? Most of the time. All-in-all, the instructors and the material (crash lab) will keep you interested. If it makes you feel any better, we had two O-5s in our class...

As for restaurants in ABQ, don't forget to hit up Rudy's BBQ(also in San Antone). Downtown didn't impress me at all, but Maloney's isn't too bad, I guess.

Besides skiing on the weekend at Taos, a lot of guys in my class went to the various Indian Casinos around town. I'd say the Sandia Casino north of town was great for craps, as Indian casinos go. I went to two minor league hockey games while there and thought they were pretty entertaining.

If you can swing staying at a nice place off base, go for it. No internet access to speak of on base, though you're real close to the safety school and you won't have to fight through the gate. You may have heard many rumors on the lack of insurance and sobriety among Albuquerque drivers...all of them are true, so beware.

If all else fails, I suppose the instructors can point you to some underrated restaurants.

Good luck!

[ 20. February 2006, 17:51: Message edited by: Space Monkey ]

[DC]

Charlie's Back Door for geniune New Mexican food. Great for lunch. (Behind Charlie's Front Door on Menual Blvd and Wyoming Blvd)

Gardunos, as mentioned above, is pretty good--but not really. Only out of towners like it, haha. (Several locations around town--airport and mall locations are the worst)

Breakfast burritos at a place called Dos Hermanos. Cheap/good eats. (Wyoming Blvd between Comanche and Candalaria).

As mentioned, Sadie's is also pretty good. Its been a long time since I've been there and I can't even for the life of me remember where it is.

Well, I could go on for hours about the food in Albuquerque, but now I'm starting to get hungry and I miss it!

Skiing? Taos and Angel Fire are probably the best in the state, but Santa Fe isn't half bad either. Sandia, while not nearly as good as the others, is right outside Albuquerque (you can even take the tram from Albuquerque and it drops you right at the top of the slopes.) Bad news, though. From what I've read and heard from back home... the ski season this year has been very lacking in the snow department.

Bars? I never really hung out downtown a whole lot. I didn't much care for the scene. Places I usually end up are Billy's Longbar (San Mateo Blvd near Oasis), O'Niells (Uptown and Lousiana--but I hear they changed their name and they suck now), and a few other random ones. The bar scene there changes a lot because you have to stay one step ahead of the hoodlums.

I definately recommend Sandia Casino for some gaming. There are several other indian casinos around and none of them are terrible (for indian casinos). Also highly recommend the ice hockey as mentioned above. Always plenty of fights (not always on the ice). Good times but watch your back! haha.

The base? Kirtland is a little dismal. Lack of plant life, etc. Its spread out so good thing you have a car. The BOQ leaves a bit to be desired. Some are newer but you certainly aren't going to find internet hotspots! (Unless its changed the last 1 1/2 years). The area outside base is just a step up of what the area outside Maxwell AFB is like. If/when you leave base, go far. As a general rule, in Albuquerque the further north you are, the safer you are.

Weather in March? Be ready for anything. 20 degrees to 80. Snow to rain to sun. Likely windy.

I lived in Albuquerque for 15 years. If you have any other questions go ahead and ask.

[Guest guard/reserve hopeful]

I have been volunteered (“told”) I will be the new safety officer and will be scheduled to attend AMIC in the next 60 days. My question is this, does AMIC in itself qualify you to be pulled out of the squadron to sit on other accident investigation boards? Or do you have to also attend FSO school (and maybe get other certifications as well) at a later time out at Kirtland to be qualified to sit on a board?

I don't have a problem with being in the safety office but I’m wondering if I can hold off FSO school (for a while) in hopes that I will stay on the line longer. Short question is how many of the schools do you have to attend to be pulled out for other accident investigations?

Thanks

[Butters]

I have been volunteered (“told”) I will be the new safety officer and will be scheduled to attend AMIC in the next 60 days. My question is this, does AMIC in itself qualify you to be pulled out of the squadron to sit on other accident investigation boards? Or do you have to also attend FSO school (and maybe get other certifications as well) at a later time out at Kirtland to be qualified to sit on a board?

I don't have a problem with being in the safety office but I’m wondering if I can hold off FSO school (for a while) in hopes that I will stay on the line longer. Short question is how many of the schools do you have to attend to be pulled out for other accident investigations?

Thanks

???? Not sure where you are getting some of your information.

You can be on a board as a pilot member without any safety training whatsoever. They prefer AMIC training for the pilot member but it is not required. FSO training is required to be an Investigating Officer (not the same as the pilot member)

Safety does not take you off the line. I have been an FSO for 7 years, served on 3 boards, and spent 1 year in wing safety. I flew more when I was the Chief of Flight Safety than I have in my other wing jobs XP and OSO. I wish I could go back to the safety office.

Go to the school!

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

I've been to the AMIC course (about 1.5 yrs ago) and do not work safety...

However, I recall them specifically stating that YOU can be called on to "assist" the SIB, but most likely will not unless you have been to FSO. Same as being the Life Support Officer....being a pilot allows you to be on the board w/uut any additional training, though.

FWIW, I have heard from various sources that the FSO course is awesome. I personally wouldn't hold off on it - however, it could open some unwelcome doors. Our FSO recently got picked (later dropped) to be a safety guru in OIF.

I've been trying to get my foot in the safety door for some time now...

**Edited for spelling

Edited January 16, 2008 by C-21 Pilot

[Butters]

however, it could open some unwelcome doors. Our FSO recently got picked (later dropped) to be a safety guru in OIF.

ops, I forgot to mention that. I did spend a bit of time in OIF as a safety officer, but had a great time.

However, once again being an FSO will not cause you to be deployed more. I know plenty of folks that have deployed to the CAOC and can't even spell safety. If you are deployed as an FSO they are not going to send you to the CAOC as a tactics officer right when you get back. If they do, your commander really sucks.

[Guest guard/reserve hopeful]

???? Not sure where you are getting some of your information.

This was just some of the initial reaction that a few of the people in the squadron had when I ran the idea by them. Something like "they could pull you away from the squadron for a safety investigation" and other similar reactions from the higher ups. But none of these people served as a safety officer either, it was just their "opinion". I’m not sure how they could "pull me away" anyways when I’m just a traditional part timer, only working a few days a month or maybe a week at most. After looking at the AMIC website it looks like a very interesting course.

Thanks for the input.

[skibum]

AMIC does qualify you to be an investigating officer (not related to pilot member) on a board. Although unlikely, you could be tagged for a board.

Edited January 17, 2008 by skibum

[Guest C-17 Flyer]

Has anyone been through the FSO course recently?

[stract]

no but I come through KIKR often (helo schoolhouse). In fact I'm here right now for sim refresher. I'll add on to what others have already said:

The new building at lodging (22018) has wireless in the lobby, and the rooms are decent. There's also a community kitchen in the lobby area with pots/pans.

Chama River Brewing Company (next to TX Land & Cattle @ I-25 and Jefferson) brews some pretty incredible beers. Also hit up Korean BBQ House on Central.

If you find yourself up in Santa Fe, eat at a place called La Choza (espanol for "the shed"). Their other restaurant, called "The Shed" is in the downtown plaza and is more for the tourists. La Choza is where the locals eat.