Track Selects and Assignment Nights

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

1 hour ago, Danger41 said:

This is not meant to have any connotation at all so keep everyone's panties unwadded.  I'm asking because I'm curious.  In the T-1, how much of the flying is done on the autopilot for the students?

Depends on which phase of training.  In Trans (first category after track) it is exclusively hand flown, even at cruise.  The student hands off aircraft control to the IP in order to get ATIS, run TOLD, brief approaches, etc, but that's it.  Trans sorties consist of MOA work (TP stalls, vert S, etc) and VFR patterns for the most part, so it's stick (yoke) and rudder work anyway.  Nav they cruise with the A/P on, but aside from GPS approachs (where the intentional emphasis is how to use the automation to fly approaches) all instrument approaches are hand flown.  Holding and procedure tracks/turns may be flown with the autopilot on, but only in heading or roll mode, so the student still needs to figure out where to point the nose.  Mission Fam is a mix.  Wing work is exclusively hand flown, even in cruise, but lead is about 75% A/P on, with the exception of on LLs, which is hand flown at all times.

[Danger41]

Cool, thanks.

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, Napoleon_Tanerite said:

Depends on which phase of training.  In Trans (first category after track) it is exclusively hand flown, even at cruise.  The student hands off aircraft control to the IP in order to get ATIS, run TOLD, brief approaches, etc, but that's it.  Trans sorties consist of MOA work (TP stalls, vert S, etc) and VFR patterns for the most part, so it's stick (yoke) and rudder work anyway.  Nav they cruise with the A/P on, but aside from GPS approachs (where the intentional emphasis is how to use the automation to fly approaches) all instrument approaches are hand flown.  Holding and procedure tracks/turns may be flown with the autopilot on, but only in heading or roll mode, so the student still needs to figure out where to point the nose.  Mission Fam is a mix.  Wing work is exclusively hand flown, even in cruise, but lead is about 75% A/P on, with the exception of on LLs, which is hand flown at all times.

Too hard to get ATIS >and< fly?

[sqwatch]

Depends on which phase of training.  In Trans (first category after track) it is exclusively hand flown, even at cruise.  The student hands off aircraft control to the IP in order to get ATIS, run TOLD, brief approaches, etc, but that's it.  Trans sorties consist of MOA work (TP stalls, vert S, etc) and VFR patterns for the most part, so it's stick (yoke) and rudder work anyway.  Nav they cruise with the A/P on, but aside from GPS approachs (where the intentional emphasis is how to use the automation to fly approaches) all instrument approaches are hand flown.  Holding and procedure tracks/turns may be flown with the autopilot on, but only in heading or roll mode, so the student still needs to figure out where to point the nose.  Mission Fam is a mix.  Wing work is exclusively hand flown, even in cruise, but lead is about 75% A/P on, with the exception of on LLs, which is hand flown at all times.

Nerd


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[Napoleon_Tanerite]

11 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Too hard to get ATIS >and< fly?

In the T-1 no, but remember we're training them to fly much larger, more complex airplanes where you have a crew and autopilot to delegate tasks to.

[Kenny Powers]

In the T-1 no, but remember we're training them to fly much larger, more complex airplanes where you have a crew and autopilot to delegate tasks to.

Sooooo...

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[Sprkt69]

Dear Autopilot, 

I delegate you to fly the airplane at all times, and get the weather and the ATIS. I promise you I will brief the approach to you. But please don't hate me if I just stare out this nifty window and look at this complex environment.

Your loving Crew sitting in the front row

[Clark Griswold]

15 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Too hard to get ATIS >and< fly?

You have altitude hold in single seaters also, you don't use it when you have to multi-task?

[Kenny Powers]

You have altitude hold in single seaters also, you don't use it when you have to multi-task?

No.

We're single seat fighter pilots, we have to be good at multi tasking while flying our jet. Most of our multi tasking happens in a very dynamic environment.

I can't speak for everyone but I use it at night in a CAS wheel sometimes, while I'm getting eyes/sensors on a target and getting a 9 line.

I would also use it if I was working my way through a long checklist if the EP wasn't a "Land as soon as possible" situation.

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[Lord Ratner]

Fighter aircraft are easier to fly, aerodynamically, than heavy aircraft.

[VMFA187]

57 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

You have altitude hold in single seaters also, you don't use it when you have to multi-task?

Rarely. Multi-tasking in the fighter community is flying form in proper position while operating your sensor(s) and executing active listening. Attitude hold isn't really relevant in a dynamic environment. Perhaps CAS detached, but we (in the Marine Corps) rarely operate detached unless the S/A threat is non existent.

10 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Fighter aircraft are easier to fly, aerodynamically, than heavy aircraft.

They have to be.

Edited March 1, 2017 by VMFA187
.

[Clark Griswold]

2 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

No.

 

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

Rarely.

Copy all. 

Since we're having an exchange between the crew and single seat communities I don't want to leave the impression that in the multi-place world that we are incapable or don't occasionally fly for some periods of time with duties normally distributed between the pilots all done by the PF (physio breaks, controlled cockpit rest, mission requirements in some crew aircraft will pull the right seater away for other mission tasks, etc...). 

Usually the split of flight duties, challenge and response checklists, confirmations, etc... is not because the PF is tasked saturated with just flying of the jet but to enhance SA, communicate to the crew (flight deck and back end if applicable) and utilize all the resources available.  It keeps the PNF from getting out of synch with the PF and ready to take the jet, if required.

Just one herbivore's take on how we do business...

Edited March 1, 2017 by Clark Griswold
minor

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

1 hour ago, Clark Griswold said:

 

... is not because the PF is tasked saturated with just flying of the jet but to enhance SA, communicate to the crew (flight deck and back end if applicable) and utilize all the resources available.  It keeps the PNF from getting out of synch with the PF and ready to take the jet, if required.

Just one herbivore's take on how we do business...

Not to mention the innumerable stories of crews all focusing on one task and driving an otherwise good jet into the ground.  Task saturation and loss of SA/aircraft control is never a good thing, but the consequences are far more severe in a large aircraft that can't recover faster than you can say "oh shit" and usually involves double or triple digit loss of life if you can't recover.

[matmacwc]

Throw some MK84s in the mix and now we are leveling entire city blocks.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

2 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Throw some MK84s in the mix and now we are leveling entire city blocks.

Implying there may not be PALLETS full of the fuckers in the back of a T-1 grad's airplane?  Put your dick away, I'm not interested in a measuring contest.

[Kenny Powers]

Copy - can't fly and get ATIS. That's all you had to say.

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[Fuzz]

Getting ATIS involves more than listening to a radio but crunching TOLD. Which is a little more involved in a 500,000lb aircraft since we don't have a BAK-12 to catch us if something goes wrong.

[Boomer6]

55 minutes ago, Fuzz said:

Getting ATIS involves more than listening to a radio but crunching TOLD. Which is a little more involved in a 500,000lb aircraft since we don't have a BAK-12 to catch us if something goes wrong.

The T-1 is 500K? 

Wow.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Boomer6

[Lord Ratner]

The T-1 is 500K? 
Wow.

Ah, perfect. This is where we transition to the next phase of this annual conversation.

MWS IPs require far less skill and instructional aptitude than UPT IPs. It adds a few hundred thousand pounds to the takeoff weight.

[BashiChuni]

my favorite quote from co pilots (as the autopilot is on and flying) "hey sir im gonna get ATIS can you take the aircraft?"

uh...wat? and no.

[Mark1]

23 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

I can't speak for everyone but I use it at night in a CAS wheel sometimes, while I'm getting eyes/sensors on a target and getting a 9 line.

Reasonable given that this is typically a 30min long process for a single seater.

[ViperStud]

2 minutes ago, Mark1 said:

Reasonable given that this is typically a 30min long process for a single seater.

Well, given that we don't have our boyfriend in the backseat to run the targeting pod for us....

Did we just skip ahead to ANOTHER phase of schwantz measuring?  You're welcome. 

[matmacwc]

Yeah!  Let's make fun of WSO's! Or CSOs or NAVS!  What are we calling them nowadays? 

[sqwatch]

I call my WSO "left thumb, right index finger"


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[Day Man]

did I miss something, or does every T-6 solo student have to get ATIS/recover/land by themselves?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Day Man