Minimum Runway Length for USAF aircraft

[Guest thefranchise]

Just for my own discussion/knowledge sake, I've been trying to come up with the mininum runway lengths for our various AF. Do these #'s sound right?

F15 - 8000'

F-16 - 6000'(Forward Zone) & 8000' normal

T-6A - 4000'

C130 - 3000' combat and 6000' normal

T-37 - ?

C-17 - ?

[Guest forcemac]

For heavy aircraft it can vary quite a bit due to gross weight....

[ 02. April 2005, 22:41: Message edited by: forcemac ]

[Guest KoolKat]

Someone correct me if I've already dumped the info, but the T-37 was 5000' for normal ops. Realistically a good pilot could knock it to 2000'.

[Mambo]

As for Heavy Aircraft..I think he's talking about Min rnwy length requirement that is in the regs for each particular a/c, the one that says you need X amount of runway to take-off (regardless of weight), as opposed to a minimum take-off distance.

[ 02. April 2005, 22:49: Message edited by: Mambo ]

[Hacker]

8,000 feet for the T-38

[kkboris]

For the C-130s, the real answer isn't as simple as 3000'/6000'. For contingencies (aka combat), the min runway length for landing will be different than for takeoff, and both numbers are highly dependent on a/c weight, outside temp, and pressure altitude. If you want a really general rule, 3000' will allow a Herk to land and take off at most weights and temp/PA combos. Both numbers can get under 2000' in the right circumstances. If you want all the rules, see the 11-2C130 series regs.

[HerkDerka]

Franchise-

Way wrong on the C-130 data.

Combat Takeoff (Max Effort) - Charted Minimum Field Length for Max Effort Takeoff (MFLMETO). In other words, depending on weight, PA, temp. Whatever our performance data tells us we can do is what our min limit is.

Peacetime max effort landings require 3,500 feet of runway even though we do it in less. Combat situations remove the 3,500 and we are only limited by our charted performance.

Normal Takeoff - Either Critical Field Length or Unbalanced Critical Field Length. The higher of the two.

Normal Landing - Charted Landing Ground Roll plus 500 feet.

There are a few others limits i.e. Touch and Go's, etc. I don't want to turn this into a TOLD discussion.

HD

HD

[ 03. April 2005, 05:23: Message edited by: HercDriver24 ]

[Toro]

EvilEagle can confirm, but I believe F-15Cs can land on less than 8000' runways. They weigh a good deal less than the F-15E, and I remember them being able to use alternates with <8K at Lakenheath.

[Guest Pogo]

I think from trying to get them into other places with shorter runways before the landing distance for fighters can be fairly short if you've got arrestor gear. Unlike brakes, chutes and thrust reversers you don't have to assume the cable will fail when calculating the landing distance, or is that wrong?

[Flare]

T-37= 5,000

[Flare]

Originally posted by KoolKat:

Someone correct me if I've already dumped the info, but the T-37 was 5000' for normal ops. Realistically a good pilot could knock it to 2000'.

An IP could land and stop in 2K all day long... but I wouldn't trust a student to! 2K feet for takeoff is an entirely different story however......

[Guest JArcher00]

Yes, the average. You did not say that before. Be clear on what you mean. I have flown with a few IPs that couldn't land to save a life..makes me wonder who is grading who. I have no time as an IP but have about 2-3 times the time in an a/c probably, so I can speak a little about flying. Just be clear on who you are talking about so others like myself don't have to chime in to be sure.

[ 03. April 2005, 13:41: Message edited by: RedDog ]

[Gas Man]

135 is 7000' with out a waiver. We would have to be fairly light to do it under that. I think the E models are quite a bit lower due to the thrust reversers. I have never flow an E and don't know if they are allowed to take TRs into account for planning purposes.

[Guest Pogo]

I tried to get an R in on a 6000ft runway and was told you needed 7000 and that even with an E they couldn't has you had to assume the TRs would fail.

[Chuck17]

Depending on weight, its a min 3500 x 90' runway for C-17 ops. With the capabilities of the aircraft, the TOLD calculations are still very conservative. Its not a problem to stop a heavy jet in 25-2800 feet. Its totally posssile for a 'light C-17' (ie around 300,000 pounds) to stop in 2000 or thereabouts. Pretty unreal for a beast that size...

[TheInner]

I don't want to leave ENJJPT IP hanging out there by himself. As a fellow Tweet FAIP I would say I wouldn't want to have any student landing and stopping the plane in 2000'. I can't think back to the last time I had a student touch down fully flared 500' down, the only situation from which I would want to try stopping in 2000'. However I think the most important point is who cares because we have to have 5000' and that won't be changing anytime soon. As for RedDog I sure hope you are Tweet complete or at least hide your true identity well because you certainly didn't gain any allies with your post. Hopefully you know or will at least learn that your past history or flying time doesn't matter. If you are a Tweet student with 6000 hours civil time and you fly a sortie with 2 Lt FAIP who only has the 69 hours he got at PIT he is still going to be the aircraft commander, know more about the Tweet and how to fly it then you ever will, and most importantly he will have the ability to hook your sorry a*s any sortie he deems appropriate. Like I said I am in no way trying to flame you but want to make sure that everyone understands attitude means alot and you will run into many situations in the Air Force where you need to understand your place in the food chain no matter how much you may disagree.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

In the C-21, we require a min of 5000, 4500 w/ IP on board.

Takeoff distance ~ 4500 (Dry, standard day, standard weight)

Landing Distance ~ 3000 (Dry, etc, etc)

I've personally landed at Offutt Rwy 12 and made Taxiway Juliet...some 1200 ft down, slowed to taxi speed ~ 30 kts, w/out Hotbrakes.

[Guest JArcher00]

Inner, I usnderstand exactly what you are saying. I have my wings so no worries about that. By no means am I trying to flame Enjjpt IP or any other. I am looking for clarification from cocky posts that tend to put down others (students) just because they don't have wings. You are 110% correct when knowing you place in the food chain. This message board is not part of it. The part about who the AC is, has nothing to do with the post I wrote, the ablitiy vs opportunity is the question. I agree that the AC should make that landing since he/she is going to have to answer the call when things didn't work out....in fact these posts have nothing to do with what the person asked in the first place. I am becoming one of the posters I hate, the ones who digress from the question at hand. I apologize to Francise but felt the studs need some support since we were all there at one point, some more recently than others. That's it from me. Later

[Guest tentoad]

For the KC-10 no problem.

As with all airplanes it depends on your gross weight. In addition, do you have an obstacle? IAW 11-202 Vol 3 we have to use the the planning process. Are you VMCG limited? If you are then watch out- it's gonna get hairy!. Are you at a NATO/ ARMY/ FAA field because the screen height is where you have to get started. If its 35 feet you are screwed. Next you have to ask yourself "Self, is there a Special Departure Procedure?" If there is then you can get one set of numbers WAIT!!! Can you make 200' per NM? Next, do you have the WARP pods, boy I hate WARP pods!!!

:)

KC-10 = Min runway length is 7,000'

[Guest rotorhead]

HH-60G (the USAF's only taildragger) = 0 feet.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by ChuckFlys17s:

Depending on weight, its a min 3500 x 90' runway for C-17 ops.

Question: Is that min a restriction for peacetime, contingency, or both?

Like I said, in Herks have have two restictions:

3,000 X 60 for peacetime

TOLD for contingency ops

But we also weigh a butt load (STS) less.

Not trying to get a versus match. I just don't know a lot about your bird and I'd like to know.

HD

[C17Driver]

That's actually the restriction unless we get MAJCOM/DO waiver. If we have the TOLD to support a shorter distance and the priority is high enough, we could probably get it.

-Minimum runway length for a full flap landing is landing ground roll plus 500 feet with max reverse (I've seen instances were this number is below 2500 feet)

Our restrictions are not based on peacetime/contigency.

[Guest thefranchise]

thanks guys for the info! helps out alot when in discussion and what not.

i have been to airshows that have 6000-7000 rwys and have seen F16s there. i would imagine they could land shorter with a waiver or what not.

[Guest Pogo]

When we've had the Dutch F-16 they wanted a cable to land on our 6000' runway.

[Toro]

Originally posted by thefranchise:

i have been to airshows that have 6000-7000 rwys and have seen F16s there. i would imagine they could land shorter with a waiver or what not.

Shack. I had a Strike Eagle at the Farnborough airshow and the runway was 6900' (NSTFS). The show was so important to USAFE that we got a waiver not only for the runway length, but for the fact that there were no cables.