NAS Whiting training info

[Flare]

Just wondering if any AF guys on the board went through primary at Whiting w/ the Navy. One of my buds back from ROTC just got his orders today that he's going to start pilot training there. He was curious as to how easily you adapt to the AF way during phase 3, and how the track select works and what planes usually come out of a Whiting drop (specifically how many T-1s and -38s). Thanks for your help.

[Scooter14]

From what I understand, there's not a "drop" per say. It's kind of like "OK, you're done. There's a T-38 slot open, and you have the scores (or no slot, or you don't have the scores). Have fun at Vance. Buh-bye"

I was AF trained all the way through, but the Navy trained folks we got from Corpus/Whiting had some initial shock and awe from their days on the beach, flying whenever, sleeping till whenever, not memorizing boldface, not saying "I will maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation, blah, blah, blah." I don't fault them...if I was at a place where I didn't have to go in unless I was flying and I could spend as much time as I wanted to at the beach, hell yeah I'd do the same thing, but once you get up here, it's kind of game-over.

Nobody's washing out or anyhing like that and everyone's acclimated for the most part, it's just that we're all learning a new plane, and they have the added responsibility of having to learn the Stand-ups, boldface shenanigans and the friggin' gradebook that the Tweet guys have been dealing with for 6 months. Big deal to learn? No. Pain in the *** to learn? Yep.

[ 02. April 2004, 23:25: Message edited by: PAB ]

[163 FS]

From what I've heard its easier to get -38's out of Whiting as opposed to Tweets, Yes there is the initial shock of 12 hour days and the new pattern, but for the most part it is not a hard transition.

As long as you are motivated to do well in your new track then there is really no disadvantage. There are a few advantages--short days at Whiting with your afternoons on the beech, easier to get -38's, harder to wash out.

Again this is all heresay, but its all from people who were Navy trained at Whiting.

[HerkDerka]

I have several friends who went to Whiting and then on to 38's. The brakedown is like this:

"Easier to get 38's" Yes and no. You still need to rate a 38 to get it. However, in Tweets your not only your grades count. The IPs also decide if you also have the flat out ability to think and react in the fast mover environment. The Navy doesn't do that with that AF guys since you don't have a Flt/CC per say. It's easier because no one is breathing down your neck. However, guys from Whiting are in for a huge shock when they get to the 38 side. Most of them have never flown a jet before, so they have the normal beginning 38 problems and also the prop-to-jet one and AF game system ones as well. I've heard Whiting guys are usually behind the power curve at the beginning. Out of my two buddies who went that route, one barely made it through talons and the other couldn't hack it.

Also just a quick FYI. AF UPT students can't go to Corpus for 34's, only Whiting. The only AF guys at Corpus are in T-44s and TC-12s.

Hey ENJJPT stud, who is it that's going to Whiting?

PD

[Scooter14]

True statement on the Corpus deal. T-1's gets AF and Navy folks from Whiting and Navy only folks from Corpus.

The Navy guys are there to fly the E-6 as a follow on, but I've herad you can put in for a P-3 as well, according to them. Kinda like getting a -130 out of Tones for the AF guys.

[mmkk111]

Hey PD,

When you say the IP's can ask anything, is that during the briefing or at any time during the day? What do you do for the whole 12 hours? I figure you're flying at some point during the day, but what else goes on? Are you given tasks to do or do they leave you alone when you're not scheduled for something? How many events do you get per day?

How was it going from the AF to the Navy? I met a Navy guy the other day that went to Vance and is here at Whiting for helo's. He just quit because he wasn't used to having to do things on his own (at least, that's what he told me?). He missed the class structure. I know that's not the norm, but did you see that when you transitioned to Corpus?

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get ready for my trip back to the AF.

Mark

P.S. Nice web site by the way

Riddler-

I'm not saying it's harder to get a T-1 slot. I was just saying that T-38's are given out frequently, but that is because many of the AF students want them. If you want T-1's there's a VERY good chance you'll get them. When you get to Whiting, you'll be paired up with an IP (called your on-wing). He will fly with you until you solo. I was paired up with an AF IP who asked what I wanted to track out of here. He said 9 times out of 10 you'll get what you want, T-38s of course being the hardest. And the IP's will fight for you to get what you want, if you put in the hard work. The morale of the story; if you want T-1's out of Whiting, you'll most likely get T-1's. Everyone I’ve seen put down T-1’s has got them. Hope that helps...

[ 04. April 2004, 19:40: Message edited by: mmkk111 ]

[Scooter14]

mmkk111 (and anyone else on their way to an AF base for Phase III),

It will be an adjustment, and you have the right attitude already, you will do fine. Just don't be that guy that always bones the stand-up EP's and blames it all on "Oh, well, I was Navy Trained, blah, blah, blah." Believe me, it happens. Ask for help if you need it. Any one of your classmates will be more than happy to go over it with you. I've seen a couple of Navy trained folks come up, mess stuff up and later say "Well, I really didn't understand/know what they wanted, etc." If you don't know, please ASK!

[ 04. April 2004, 19:53: Message edited by: PAB ]

[HerkDerka]

mmkk111-

To answer your questions:

1) It's during the brief and debrief (more so during the debrief). The IPs have no set ground training guide, so they just ask away. Hence, you need to be ready for any questions they throw at you. It's kind of standard practice for the IPs to ask a few questions to determine what subject you know the least on and then attack.

2) Like I said, the 12 hours is not one long study session, you have butt loads (STS) of stuff to do. Normally you have two flying events every day (flight, sims, etc) and sometimes three. There are also duty shifts to pull like RSU tours, SDO, door guard, the list goes on. So you actually don't have a whole bunch of free time. If you aren't scheduled during one of the three periods, you generally sit in the flight room and study. However, it's not like the Navy likes to think it is. You actually get very little study time during the day. However, if your class is not on formal release, you are allowed to leave until the next period.

3) Regarding your buddy, I think he's full of it. IMHO, AF training is much harder than Navy training. Went I went to Corpus, I found it ten times easier than Vance. I never missed the structured regimine that's for sure.

PD

[scoobs]

How long are reblueing classes?

[Herk Mafia]

1 week, but its about 2 days worth of work spread out in that week. A bunch of CBT's with really retarded stuff: This is what holding is, this is what a fix-to-fix is, this thing is called a "whiz-wheel." Seriously, its that dumb.

[Guest Ghost63]

Just thought I would post up some info for those that may be interested. I know there's a lot of questions out there for people that end up getting Whiting Field for UPT, and others that aren't sure if it's easy street or a death sentence. Basically, the links that are easily found for AF types going through Phase I & II (or API and Primary) with the Navy are still pretty accurate, even though they are quite old.

http://home.earthlink.net/~kschlappi/kyle.htm http://www.geocities.com/damado26/

So far, I've done API so I can't tell you yet what the flying is like or how accurate the two websites are.

PRE-API: Expect to do just what they said, you have "muster" every morning and then you're pretty much turned loose. Depending on how long you have to wait to class up, you may get a stash (casual status) job. Same as you would expect anywhere. You will do IFS and the AF guys at student control are pretty good about making that your priority and not silly Navy games. I already had my PPL, and I was close to the age limit when I got picked up so I checked in on a Monay to NASP, and started class on Friday. Some kind of record I think. One thing that is definitely different than the website info is that if you are there as an AF PILOT, you WILL NOT do the water ops. No swimming, no helo dunker, none of it. On the other hand, the Navy guys can have parasailing waivered, we can't. So if weather doesn't hold for you, then you get rolled back until you get it completed. No biggie, there's quite a wait at Whiting to start flying for us anyway.

Can't think of any other major differences in the information you can get from the websites. Oh, other than also having to listen to the incessant *****ing and whining of the Navy pukes about going to Vance. For some reason, they have real trouble figuring out why the AF makes you learn silly crap like EP's...

If you're trying to figure out whether or not you'd want to put it up to the top of your dream sheet, I can't help you out yet. I'll pass on the advice an O-5 gunpig driver gave me (after his second tour as an IP there.) You'll have more fun in the beginning with the Navy, and they are good with the intruments. The Air Force will make you a better pilot. I figure I get the best of both worlds, because after track select we obviously go back to an AF base to do phase III.

I'll be happy to answer questions if anyone is headed this way.

[Guest SuperStallionIP]

For some reason, they have real trouble figuring out why the AF makes you learn silly crap like EP's...

Yeah, those EPs. At Whiting, if you don't know them, you just get a down. Keep the trend up for a couple more times and you're out of there, simple as that. Gone. Attrited. Or in AF terms, "force shaped". They assume at Whiting that you're all grown men and women that take responsibility for your training and can manage your time accordingly so they don't have to micro-manage you for 12 hours a day. I know that is a hell of a burden, but I'm sure you'll manage. You might even like being treated like an adult eventually.

The Air Force will make you a better pilot.

NO. You decide if you want to be a good pilot. Nobody "makes" you a good pilot. It is up to you and your professionalism. Call it professional curiosity and seeking the information. If you are leaving that responsibility to someone else, you should not be there in the first place.

[POKESC17]

Whiting has three sq but AF only goes to VT-3. You are expected to know the procedures as the book describes them but you will get a demo in most cases. Most of my demos were usually a flight prior to what it was actually supposed to be so I would get a demo and then still have another shot on the next ride before they really counted. As far as the EP's go. They can be a pain in the ass but about half way through contact it becomes second nature (at least it was for me). Some of the IP's push EP's harder than others. BigIron was right. If you don't know the EP's your down. Second time and if the IP is pissed then it's probably a Ready Room down and your on your way to Force Shaping. As far as what all your peers there think of AF UPT. They don't have a clue as to what it's like as you have probably figured out. The grading standards between IP's really sucks. I've been told I had an outstanding hop, best the IP has seen in a long time and then I get handed an average grade sheet. Had the exact opposite happen as well. When you ask about it they say they have to make the grades average out or someone will start to ask questions. But hey, all you can do is roll with the punches. Enjoy your time there and have fun next hurricane season. You will probably be there awhile. It took me almost one year to the day to finish API and Primary. That was with no waiting for class ups.

[DC]

Overall I can't say I have much of a complaint against Whiting. I haven't been to the AF side of the house yet, but from what I can tell we definately have it better off overall.

API is just a hurdle you need to jump. Its a pretty easy process, but it can be a pain in the butt sometimes. I'm pretty sure its designed as a hazing ritual for Navy studs. Trying to wash the bad apples out right away. Pay attention, study as required, and API is a breeze. You'll only work more than 3-4 hours a day a couple times the entire time. The academics are easy but you will need to study because of the way the tests are constructed. Not a bad gig, though.

At Whiting our EPs are totally different. Instead of having just a handful of boldface items and popping out a checklist for the rest, we have a few pages worth of memorized EPs and we back ourselves up with the checklist. Probably has something to do with single engine and no ejection seat. You don't need to memorize the punctuation like in the AF though. But you'll be filling out "EP Quizzes" constantly to make sure you're up to speed on them. And instead of standup, we just run simulated EPs in the air and brief individual ones on the ground as required one on one (usually two on one with another student) with the IP. The T-34C can stay in the air a lot longer than the T-6 or T-37 so your hops tend to be quite long in contact (2+ hrs sometimes). Running simulated EPs in the air gets pretty old pretty quick. Just today my IP kept failing my engine on me at low altitude in a difficult position for our only field. After about 5 of those (4 were good enough to move on) I was definately sick of them. I'm tempted to say I'd trade inflight EPs for standup, but I haven't experienced standup and from what friends have shown me and what is said about it (and what some of my AF IPs here have talked to us about) standup sounds like it gets old pretty quick too. Both are great ways to learn EPs, I suppose. I just think standup would work better for my style of learning. Besides, what's more fun then trying to fly a PEL profile while snapping on your O2 mask (we fly w/o it below 10k) and turning the handcrank to get the gear down all with the canopy open?

Does Whiting take longer? That's a big hell yes. But it takes a lot of the firehose effect out of UPT. And without the full firehose (you still get some), as long as you are responsible enough to study for yourself, you're going to be fine here. When you're not running into bad weather (common here) you're trying to make sense of the schedule. You could potentially go several weeks without flying for no explicable reason. Since I started I've averaged 3-4 flights a week (except the 35 days I went w/o flying) which is considerably well above average.

One last thing. When I found out I was coming here I was a little disappointed at first mainly because I wanted to fly the T-37 or T-6. The T-34C, however, is a plucky little bird. She's pretty damn fun to fly. She has her quirks (trim is done with wheels on the console instead of tabs on the stick) and might not fly as fast or pull as many Gs. But really, do you NEED speed and Gs for the first flight phase of training? Not really. Gotta love a plane with an ashtray and a boldface item "Dive towards the trailing edge of either wing."

Hope that helps. I rambled a bit in the middle there--its been a long day--but I'm fairly sure it made sense.

[Hotel]

What is the med-down and med-up? Are you talking about that initial look over when you get to UPT? The one where they recheck your eyes and stuff despite you already having a Class 1, MFS, and MEPS (for some of us).

[ 18. January 2006, 09:55: Message edited by: jr_pilot ]

[czecksikhs]

Med down is the Navy's version of being DNIF. The only difference is, instead of being logged into the computer once like at a UPT base and being put as DNIF in TIMS, you have to go to 4 DIFFERENT OFFICES around base to drop off Med down and med up chits. Speaking of Navy a$$-grabbery.....

[Guest Safe&Clear]

Ok, here's what I've noticed over the past 6 years about Whiting (and other) instructor gigs:

-To the flesh-peddlers at AFPC, a volunteer for AETC is simply that: a volunteer for AETC. You are considered a volunteer for T-34s, T-1s, T37s, T-6s, and if you're an AC, T44s/C12s. You could get any base where these jobs are located.

-HOWEVER, if you demonstrate a logical reason to go to a specific base via direct contact with someone at AFPC (it's good to have friends there) or through your T-ODP, it can swing you in a certain direction.

That last point explains why many AFSOC or F-15 pilots get T-34s to Whiting. They already live in the area and either demonstrated a family-related need to not move or the AF rationalizes the $$ saved in PCS costs.

If you can come up with a logical reason to get T-34s over some other job, outline it in an email to your handler at AFPC and it just may happen. OR, if you're nearing the end of your commitment, use the "I'll stay in the AF if given a choice on my T-ODP" card. That worked for me-- I got offered orders to Corpus almost instantly when I dropped separation papers.

[flyusaf83]

I've been reading info about potential UPT bases I might be headed to after I graduate this December. I have some questions about Whiting NAS. I put it as #1 on my list because of the location, plus I have family in FL. I've read that it takes longer to finish there as opposed to AF UPT bases. Why is this? Slower paced or more training? I've also read that those who go to Whiting don't do casual status. Do they go to IFS? If so, when? Also, what chances do I have of going there since I put it at #1? Does that even matter? Thanks ya'll.

Edited July 12, 2008 by flyusaf83

[spectre56]

This has been talked about a lot.

1. Slower paced: think self paced (more or less) vice cramming it down your throat

2. They do do casual, and go to IFS when there is a class opening along with other UPT base-bound folks

3. About 1 in 4 chance of getting it (4 UPT bases)...maybe less (could be off, someone correct me if I'm wrong)

I put Whiting as number 1 and got Laughlin.

[Guest tmickel]

1. Slower paced: think self paced (more or less) vice cramming it down your throat

In addition to the generally slower pace of the training there, you also have to PCS to another UPT base for Phase III and integrate into a new class there. That adds a little time as well. People who went to OTS with me and went on to Whiting started Phase III about two months after I did. Not sure when they started at Whiting though.

[B.L]

--BUMP!--

So it's been almost a year since the last update. I'm headed down to ASBC en-route to Whiting for UPT. I'll be on casual status for probably 4 months (I grad ASBC 4 Dec, RNLT to Whiting 5 Dec and have IFS sometime in April). Will they try to bump my IFS date up to enter training quicker, or is it going to be a hurry up and wait (not that I'm complaining, coming from Alaska to the beautiful and warm Florida!!!!!) What is casual like there? Is it still the whole 2 hours in the office, then released to the gym? Any word on the T-6's, or do they still have the -34's? Any other misc updates, as it has been almost a year since the last one? Thanks guys!

BLud

[FlyingWolf]

--BUMP!--

So it's been almost a year since the last update. I'm headed down to ASBC en-route to Whiting for UPT. I'll be on casual status for probably 4 months (I grad ASBC 4 Dec, RNLT to Whiting 5 Dec and have IFS sometime in April). Will they try to bump my IFS date up to enter training quicker, or is it going to be a hurry up and wait (not that I'm complaining, coming from Alaska to the beautiful and warm Florida!!!!!) What is casual like there? Is it still the whole 2 hours in the office, then released to the gym? Any word on the T-6's, or do they still have the -34's? Any other misc updates, as it has been almost a year since the last one? Thanks guys!

BLud

I can't say for sure, but chances are your IFS date will not change... They are not the ones who schedule you for IFS, but hey, wouldn't hurt to ask and maybe they can pull some strings. I wouldn't consider the wait so bad though. As several others have touched on, Pensacola is a sweet place to be stashed if you actually take advantage of it (Personally, I recommend living in NE Pensacola... living on the bay is SWEET and its only a 30 min drive for me). For casual it depends on who you are assigned to, most of us are "Ops" meaning we either work in the office or work the grill by the flight line 3 or 4 days a week for about 3 hours. After which you are free to do as your heart desires.

As far as the T-6s... this may be another reason you don't want to move up that IFS date... they have actually started receiving T-6s! I believe someone said they are a new model with beta, allowing split field ops to continue. I was actually there for the flyover when the first two arrived, so its really is finally happening. The latest projection I heard (not an official confirmed date) is that it will take until mid May to get IPs trained up and start the first student sorties.

I will work on putting together some more useful info to post on here, still figuring out a lot myself though.

[LT4Life]

You check in at NAS Pensacola at the quarterdeck. Ask the guys at the gate, they'll tell you how to get there. It is 24 hours. The navy is not like big blue. They say check in is Saturday, they mean it. They want your orders stamped and everything saying you were there on time. If RNLTD is on a Saturday with big blue, come in around 1500 the following Monday. Enjoy it down there, it will be the best time you'll have for a while.

I wouldn't live in Gulf Breeze, just an opinion though. The only guys I heard that did that were instructors. Live in Pcola. There is enough for you to do that you're time there will be filled. If you live in Gulf Breeze you'll spend a good deal of time driving everyday only to get canxed after an hour or two of work. Again, just my preference.

[Whitman]

The drive to Eglin from Gulf Breeze is a long one. Will take about an hour and that's not even counting the Hwy 98 traffic (coastal highway). If I were you, I'd live in Milton instead of pcola. You will be closer to Eglin (I-10 down to US-85 and you're there) and you will be ready for the 5am shows when you have them at Whiting. The instrument phase is no joke at Whiting and you will be double pumping, as the Navy likes to say, sims and flights until you finish. It was nice to be able to come home in between events and study and eat before heading back. But I def don't recommend Gulf Breeze, the quickest route to base is a $4 toll and the friends I had that lived there got annoyed at the commute and ended up moving to Milton. NE pcola isn't bad but why live in a place that is neither convenient for you or your wife? If you truly want to split the difference, live in Crestview (Crestucky) right off of I-10 but I still think you are better off in Milton, especially if you can find a place to rent on the blackwater river.

[fastnumber15]

Just to update some of the outdated info....you will check in at NAS Whiting Field. If on the weekend...check in at hq and they will stamp your order, then you can go to lodging or wherever you like. Come back in to VT-3 on Monday and report to the AFLO office. Everything is extremly laid back. Best place to IMHO is NE P-COLA or PACE. Only 6 weeks of API, and you will not start API for like 5 or 6 months after you check in. I work 2 hours a day, 3 days a week on casual here, even after I finished IFS I just waited about 3 weeks before API. If you need any other info PM me or call the AFLO office here. If your wife is going to work at Eglin, Bagdad is the best place. 30 to 40 min to Eglin, 15 to Whiting.