Jump to content
Guest navobd

Promotion and PRF Information

Recommended Posts

It's not really magical, but yes, officers can be overtly stratified on the PRFs (i.e., "#3 of 700 Captians in the USAFE")...of course, only USAFE/CC could use that strat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A previous AW/CC said he separates 0-4 DP, P, and DNPs in several iterations via filtering and stacking.

The first filter = AAD & PME complete (which makes four stacks: has both, one, other, or neither)

The second filter = PME complete w/ Bachelor's +

and so on....couldn't believe it was that cut and dry for him. I think strat's matter more when you're going for 0-5 and up when the 0-4 promotion rate is like 90%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really magical, but yes, officers can be overtly stratified on the PRFs (i.e., "#3 of 700 Captians in the USAFE")...of course, only USAFE/CC could use that strat!

A PRF is a compilation of OPRs and any other official documents, so you can have multiple strats.

Only one box on your PRF matters.

If that one is not checked, then it’s not the only one that matters.

Do promotion boards even care if you're an IP or not? Honest question.

Not unless you achieved something significant as an IP (strat amongst IPs)

So I am a late-rated guy and I believe my PRF will be written next summer. I volunteered for a white jet assignment and will be PCSing this fall after PIT. I won't be an MWS IP before I leave this summer for PIT. How bad is it going to be for me to be PCSing a few months prior to my PRF being written without being a MWS IP and showing to a Sq just before it's due? I'm thinking I'm pretty much hosed.

There are a couple folks in the Air Force who were promoted and weren't MWS IPs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-To clarify, Toro is, of course, absolutely right about PRFs including material from previous OPRs (like strats). I was specifically addressing my comment to any stratification provided from the Mgmt Lvl Review (MLR), which is an independent matter (from previous OPRs). The final line of the PRF, or the “push line,” from the individual signing the PRF is the signer’s final summation and a powerful statement.

-One other thought: I’ve seen several postings here like “### doesn’t matter because the board doesn’t care.” That may or may not be true, but keep in mind that all the review levels leading up to the board may well care. PME, AAD, upgrades, quals, CGO of the Qtr, whatever. As your record makes its way up the review chain everything is taken into account, and with so many people looking good (and similar) on paper, little discriminators can have a big impact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-To clarify, Toro is, of course, absolutely right about PRFs including material from previous OPRs (like strats). I was specifically addressing my comment to any stratification provided from the Mgmt Lvl Review (MLR), which is an independent matter (from previous OPRs). The final line of the PRF, or the “push line,” from the individual signing the PRF is the signer’s final summation and a powerful statement.

The MLR provides a strat? I thought they only handed out left over DPs and Ps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are some details about the aggregatted DPs I have never really understood, but I was referring to the MLR (say ACC) review wherein COMACC rakes and stacks his officers and gives out whatever strats he chooses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do promotion boards even care if you're an IP or not? Honest question.

I remember some stats being posted years ago ('08 timeframe maybe) by an old head on here... Might have been CH.

Anyway, the gist of it was that a vast majority of the people promoted to O-4 had certain "boxes checked", being:

IP in an MWS

Flt CC/Shop Chief

SOS In Res

AAD

Consistent strats

I'm really reaching back, but I do remember this being a topic of discussion in the past. I'm not saying the above were the end all/be all for promotion to O-4, and as other's have said, the DP is important, but the above items (and probably some other things I'm looking over) certainly are looked at and noted by the boards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MLR provides a strat? I thought they only handed out left over DPs and Ps.

MLRs do not provide a stratification that goes on your PRF. However, your record will be stratified during the MLR against other P records for the left over DPs. This strat does not go outside the MLR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I see where I injected (STS) some confusion in this conversation. When your PRF is signed at the MAJCOM level (for instance, like for Sq/CCs), your MLR and the PRF signatory are essentially one and the same. This is not the case if your PRF is signed at a subordinate level. ThreeHoler sounds like he has it right in that situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My board is coming up here in a year and I will have no MWS IP, probably no consistent strats, but I will have Shop Chief/Flt CC, SOS, and BAC +. I also have 3 DGs (UPT, PIT, PIQ). Am I pretty much screwed for promotion since I will have just BAC +, no good strats, and no MWS IP? Will my DG's carry any weight whatsoever?

You have a T code from your time as a UPT instructor, right? Then you have nothing to worry about if you don't have your K code yet for your MWS. I know people who were copilots for their board, and as long as they showed good progression within their primary duties, it didn't matter a bit that they were not an AC or an IP.

Consistent MAF O-4 and O-5 board feedback shows the following in order of importance:

1) Appropriate progression in primary job performance (i.e. MWS FP->MP->IP->so on or UPT IP->MWS MP->so on).

2) Appropriate progression in secondary job performance (i.e. no additional duty->mobility->SELO->scheduler/mission controller->chief of x->etc). Strats play in to #1 and #2 on this list.

3) Appropriate PME complete (SOS any method for O-4, ACSC any method for O-5).

4) AAD complete (N/A if you have a DP to O-4, very good to have if you have a P to O-4, pretty much required for O-5).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The outbrief from last year's major board from AFSOC stated that in order to be competitive to O-4, though shal have AAD and PME, in residence if possible.

I'm an '04 year guy and had the following priorities weighing on my mind. PME In Res, AAD and IP upgrade. I was counseled to put IP upgrade at the bottom of that list (background is that I am a former B-1 guy). I also had the reality that on this RIF board I recieved a Retain, with a Definitely Retain push indicating that I was near the top of the bottomn 25%. YMMV but I was basically told that SOS either in res or correspondence with a DP was irrelevant but both this and an AAD with only a P would be very good in my favor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WG/CC at KTCM told us today that 28 of 40 (70%) were selected. He didn't know if that was common across the MAJCOM or USAF and hadn't had a chance to look for similarities among the 12 non-selects.

Anyone else hearing numbers in anticipation of the board results? There are a lot of nervous people out here after that bomb was dropped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 people passed over with a DP - all no AAD.

Interesting statistics. Someone really has a hard-on for academic degrees....they really must think it makes a better leader than someone who got a commander's direct recommendation with a DP. I really hope there is more to it than just that. At least tell me their PRFs were poorly written.

I really don't get it...I just don't see the correlation between AADs and leadership...especially at that level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting statistics. Someone really has a hard-on for academic degrees....they really must think it makes a better leader than someone who got a commander's direct recommendation with a DP. I really hope there is more to it than just that. At least tell me their PRFs were poorly written.

I really don't get it...I just don't see the correlation between AADs and leadership...especially at that level.

Based on what I saw as an OG Exec several years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if a commander was trying to hide a shitty record with a DP and the board figured it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on what I saw as an OG Exec several years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if a commander was trying to hide a shitty record with a DP and the board figured it out.

Yeah, I've seen that before too and I don't support the practice. I also don't think that practice is used that often either. I've always wondered why boards always think they need to decode someone's promotion record. Unless they've talked directly to the senior rater about a specific record, stop trying to read between the lines. If it says DP, the rater highly recommends promotion even without an AAD. On the surface, this looks more like the discriminator was AAD between closely matched P and DP records....makes you wonder why we even have P and DPs. The records should speak for themselves....and it appears they did in these cases.

Edited by BitteEinBit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The records should speak for themselves....and it appears they did in these cases.

Do they really? If they were serious about un######ing the promotion system, everyone would get a strat so that they and the promotion board would know where they stand. So if you're 69/69, that's what you get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DP non-selects are an anomaly...they happen, but they are not common among records without blemishes. That is why I was saying there has to be more to these records. Do promotion records speak for themselves? Not necessarily. Thats why I said they should. Strong records don't need the DP push...if it is well written, the dudes will get promoted. Weak DP records do stand out though. It is obvious to the board if a DP was given to mask a weak record, but the rater wouldn't (shouldn't) use a DP on a dude they really didn't think should get promoted. It should be used as an indication to the board that while this guy's record seems weak, I as the senior rater think he has the potential to be promoted even without an AAD. I dont know if that was the case here. Otherwise, it appears the board used AAD as a discriminator and disregarded the DP (more likely) but you'll never get anyone to admit it. I'm guessing they took all the DP records without AADs and put them up against P records with AADs that were about equal and then used the AAD as a discriminator without regard to the DP. Fair? Maybe...but that's why I ask why use P and DP? Obviously AAD holds more weight between similar records.

We already know the Air Force has a hard time telling people they suck, so they put it in 'code' in someone's promotion record. Remember, we are the 'feel good' force...everyone is a winner when it comes to face to face feedback.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard 7/10 promoted in another RPA Sq, one non-select was just the Wing Flt/CC of the year. I don't know of anybody from RPAs who was a school select, even the Exec types and the Wing CGO of the year types. It appears having RPA on your PRF meant overall lower score.

Edited by Radio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our base (F-15E) had 6 people not get picked up....all 6 were flight suit wearers, both Pilots and WSOs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all the young guys on this board (Captains awaiting their boards and younger) who want to stay in, the writing is clear as crystal looking at the stats--you need to get your masters degree. I spit out the kool-aid a long time ago, so I'm not giving you the company line...I'm telling you what it takes to get picked up for O-4. Grant it, there are obviously guys who make it without having a masters, but statistically, they're rolling the dice. It's the one thing that is 100% within your control (that and at a minimum getting SOS in correspondence)--no excuse if you want to stay in.

I also know of a WG/CC who flat out told his O's that if you don't have your masters, you won't even get looked at for a DP--so you get double-screwed (just like BQZip's Mom getting DP'd).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×