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Promotion and PRF Information

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'll believe it when they start putting them in cockpits instead of shipping containers.

NVM, I have faulty memory.

Edited by panchbarnes
Faulty Memory

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On 7/19/2019 at 10:43 AM, pawnman said:

As promised, here's a PRF that will NOT get you promoted.

I have not talked to AFPC or the WG/CC yet, so further analysis pending.  

SnipImage.JPG

prf.thumb.png.012827838aeeb1ae7a53f067a1e1cd5c.png

Looking at your PRF I am even more frustrated with this system, if that's possible.  In the spirit of open-kimono, here is my PRF.  I made it, but was firmly in the "Grey".  I was told my my WG/CC to be "cautiously optimistic", so I had been sweating it quite a bit.  The past few years I thought things were good, and was always told not to worry, but after taking the bonus and shortly thereafter being told the above, I was a bit pissed because I would have made different life choices had I seen the writing on the wall earlier.  If the USAF doesn't like my work, that's fine I can find someone else to pay me money doing something that doesn't continually fuck me and my family over.  Needless to say despite making it the entire experience and past year has honestly been a bit jading on me.

Here is the 1-star feedback on my entire record when I asked for clarification on my "P" and shitty push line:

Early OPRs are mediocre--to include not being stratted on my first OPR post-grad USAFWS which led him to ask if I had any disciplinary issues then (I did not)
Lacked any strats on early OPRs
I went from sq to gp, to sq and back to gp, not showing good progression (due to "AF needs")
At one point my strat actually went downhill a few %...one year X/XX, next year top XX%
I have too many functional strats that are "all throwaways the board will likely dismiss" (VMs, EWOs, branch chief, etc)
Strats were often strange coming from rater (Capt strat from rating Capt, Strat by a DO as a Maj, Strat by a GS-12 as a Maj, etc)
Not enough awards of any kind
Not having a MSM going into IPZ as a major is unfortunate
Was called out for "speeding" on job titles, said it would raise eyebrows with the board
I had too many OPRs not in a "W" prefix
Overall he said I was a late bloomer, and the board will have to square that with my poor early record, and hopefully my recent performance resonates with them.
He said that it likely is a 50/50 chance

I'm not here to pour salt on any wounds.  In comparing our PRFs in many ways yours is stronger than mine, particularly in the push.  I think it goes to show how finicky things can get in the "grey".  Hopefully all this helps someone recognize any potential weaknesses in their own records or where they actually stand in the eyes of the USAF, and can make life decisions accordingly.  Good luck next year everyone.

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Looks like you have a lot more rank strats than I do.  I was also told 50/50 chance.  And despite being in a wing staff job, my SURF shows me going SQ to GP back to SQ, because my job is coded as API-0.  As a result, I'm occupying a spot in a flying squadron manning doc, even though I'm working in the IG office.

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🤦‍♂️ It looks like you both did everything the AF asked you to do and did well at it. One would think that if all strats represent the top 73% or so one would get promoted, much less top 50%, top 25%, or better. Two-line PRF and new OPR system can’t come fast enough, but we can only hope that improves things... PFM.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2019 at 5:49 PM, pawnman said:

Had lunch with the deputy OG today... Turns out Dyess has not promoted a WSO in the last four years.  Fun times.

Weird.  In my year group in the Bone, we got 9-10 IDE in-res slots and out of those, 8 were WSOs (myself included, though how I got one is beyond me).  Once again, timing is EVERYTHING.

Edited by pbar

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1 minute ago, pbar said:

Weird.  In my year group in the Bone, we got 9-10 IDE in-res slots and out of those, 8 were WSOs (myself included, though how I got one is beyond me).  

When was that?  My year group had two people in it for the whole base, both B-1 guys... Me and a pilot.  Up north was similarly thin.  

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Is there anyone that’s a 2BPZ type that can post their PRF so we can compare wtf the Bobs at corporate want?

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9 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Is there anyone that’s a 2BPZ type that can post their PRF so we can compare wtf the Bobs at corporate want?

Spoiler alert...it will sound the same as someone who makes it IPZ except the bottom line will have a #1 strat from either a WG/CC or above. 

 

Pathways to achieve this feat are 1. be a wing exec 2. be an aide/exec for a flag officer (preferably as a captain) 3. work a staff gig for a flag officer (again preferably as a captain). 

Better yet, make sure you check the box on just one flying assignment to ensure you have enough time to do one of the above and then PCS to a fellowship program to ensure your O-5 PRF is written as a CGO.  This way the board can see how fantastic of a CGO you are without muddying the waters with FGO performance.     

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2 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

Spoiler alert...it will sound the same as someone who makes it IPZ except the bottom line will have a #1 strat from either a WG/CC or above. 

 

Pathways to achieve this feat are 1. be a wing exec 2. be an aide/exec for a flag officer (preferably as a captain) 3. work a staff gig for a flag officer (again preferably as a captain). 

Better yet, make sure you check the box on just one flying assignment to ensure you have enough time to do one of the above and then PCS to a fellowship program to ensure your O-5 PRF is written as a CGO.  This way the board can see how fantastic of a CGO you are without muddying the waters with FGO performance.     

Yup

your record as a Lt and capt seem to matter a whole lot more than they should....

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39 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Yup

your record as a Lt and capt seem to matter a whole lot more than they should....

"Are you ready to perform in the next grade?  Let's go back 8 years to your SOS performance and find out"

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Well hopefully now that they eliminated “school selects” off the board; they stop using early CGO performance to determine HPO status, cautiously optimistic rated performance boards will also shift what we value in promotions.

Question for the grey beards, how much do CGO strats matter for an 0-5 board traditionally?  I.e 1-2 average CGO strats, tons of IP/combat time, no CGO awards, late WIC grad and then a ton of major strats with Group and Wing level jobs? Asking for a friend..!

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34 minutes ago, pawnman said:

"Are you ready to perform in the next grade?  Let's go back 8 years to your SOS performance and find out"

I am starting to lose track how many times I have now seen officers who have only been stratified at the CGO level i.e. their O-5 PRFs were written when they were senior captains, surpass above average performing FGOs.  This is the most frustrating part of the whole promotion process.  FGO and CGO have totally different levels of expectations.  This is what makes me believe the only real thing the board looks at is the bottomline strat and where it came from.  They could not care less about an officer's upbringing.  It also makes me extremely cynical about the new promotion system.  Why would it be any different if there are only two lines.  Certainly since strats and DPs still exist on the PRF, what will drive senior raters to more closely examine an officer's record?  Its emblematic of our culture where 15 second news clips suffice for being "well informed".  

My solution would be to scrap the PRF system altogether.  Let the full record speak for itself.  

 

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19 minutes ago, dream big said:

Asking for a friend..!

DP = 99.9% promoted

P = ~50% promoted

Doesn't matter what else is on there, P vs DP is the biggest discriminator. No matter what anyone says, it's all a guess how "strong" a P PRF is.

Most O's (aircrew anyway) are well above average and Big Blue magnifies the smallest difference to be able to draw a cut line somewhere. It sucks that PRFs and OPRs are have unwritten rules only the select few are allowed to know, but honestly most non-military family, friends, future employers won't know and don't care.

From presonal experience, don't get your ego wrapped up in the PRF and the board results. It doesn't define who you are as a person.

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I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   

 

DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)

#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)

#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)

#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)

#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC

#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

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6 hours ago, dream big said:

Well hopefully now that they eliminated “school selects” off the board; they stop using early CGO performance to determine HPO status, cautiously optimistic rated performance boards will also shift what we value in promotions.

Question for the grey beards, how much do CGO strats matter for an 0-5 board traditionally?  I.e 1-2 average CGO strats, tons of IP/combat time, no CGO awards, late WIC grad and then a ton of major strats with Group and Wing level jobs? Asking for a friend..!

My PRF is right up there.  One CGO strat, tons of instructor/evaluator strats, lots of combat and instructor time, and some major/FGO strats in the last three years... Not promoted.

I wish your friend luck.  Maybe breaking the LAF into multiple categories will help.

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I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   
 
DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)
#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)
#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)
#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)
#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)
#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)
#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC
#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

DG ROTC? What in the foooook? Really?




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38 minutes ago, bennynova said:

It’s super important; the earlier in your life, the better; it trumps Lt Strats 

Once you get on the HPO train, it's tough to get derailed.  The sooner you get on that HPO train, the better.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Danger41 said:

 the Bobs at corporate want?

They want younger versions of themselves.

The system worked for them, therefore the system must be good.

I quote again from The Talking Heads, "Same as it ever was..."

The new and improved two-line PRF is a sop so that it looks like "they are doing something."  And for the drones at A1, et al, it was a way to get The Man off their collective back and earn themselves one of those coveted strats.

This is no different than the switch from the old weighted OERs to the new and improved "meets standard" OPR/PRF, and so on back to 1947.  And before that back to the founding of our military officer corps.  Largely, who you know along with luck/timing rules and always will.

Make informed decisions knowing the rules of the game whether written or not.  

Edited by brickhistory
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2 hours ago, di1630 said:

DG ROTC? What in the foooook? Really?

1 strat that captures 4 years against your peers?  I’d buy it over SOS.

Wasn’t there talk of moving officers to a static closeout?  Seems like that would close the loopholes on the strat game even further and allow everyone to be racked and stacked equitably once a year.

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9 hours ago, bennynova said:

I’ve got some 1BPZ PRFs that made it.  Here is what an HPO looks like   

 

DG ROTC, DG SOS (#7/800); WIC Paper (#1/130); Gp FGOY (#1/101)

#9/160 CGOs (Gp/CC)

#5/250 Capts (Wg/CC)

#1/160 Capts (Deployed/CC)

#5/180 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/150 Majs (Wg/CC)

#1/220 Majs (Wg/CC

#1/60 BPZ eligibles; best I have; Sq/CC after CAF fellowship; SDE; JCS. dP

I had 2 consecutive #1/150 Majs from Wg CC plus #3/270 CGOs and #2/80 Jt O-4s at a Joint Command, finishing behind only an Army infantrymen on the way to Battalion Command; same push, no commission DG, no SOS DG and I did not make it 1BPZ.  If there was such thing as a late bloomer, it would be me -- truth is you can't make BPZ as a late bloomer.  Fine by me.  7 more years until check of the month club.  

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2019 at 4:04 PM, drewpey said:

prf.thumb.png.012827838aeeb1ae7a53f067a1e1cd5c.png

Holy shit, this is what OPRs are "supposed" to look like?   AD kids being sent to Guard units as a first assignment are FUCKED!   Well...besides pretty much having a guaranteed job in a few years when they can get out.  

 

Quote

Not having a MSM going into IPZ as a major is unfortunate

I guess I don't understand this and it seems to be a complete devaluation of medals.  I once got a MSM (as a Capt) because the OG at the time was passed over for O-6 the first time for not having a MSM.  A few months later, the whole damn squadron got MSMs so this didn't happen to any of us.  I guess he thought he was "taking care" of us.  Fast forward a few years and we get a WG/CC from another base.  Now a Major, he loses it when he sees that I have 2xMSMs and no Commendation medal.  Guess who now has a commendation medal.  Again, what a fucked up system!  

Note:  Before this I had never heard that it was customary that Capt get AFCM and Majors get MSMs.

Edited by SocialD
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1 hour ago, SocialD said:

Holy shit, this is what OPRs are "supposed" to look like?   AD kids being sent to Guard units as a first assignment are FUCKED!   Well...besides pretty much having a guaranteed job in a few years when they can get out.  

PRFs, not OPRs.  Each of those strats is likely from a single OPR.

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