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I shake my head at this whole process.   It’s broken and will be screwed up for years.   We have done this to ourselves by sending mediocrity to personnel positions and allowing a CC core function to be subjected to this nonsense.  You seem like a good O.  Get the heck out and get a guard (not reserve) gig to finish.  You can make your mark somewhere else that appreciates your ability and dedication.  Don’t screw around trying to save it in the same environment.  Maybe look at an AGR gig to finish. There’s a lot of options out there...and they are not a step down. 

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

ACSC complete, only negative indicator is that I've never left the community to do staff, instructor duty at PCola, and I didn't DG from SOS.  I even did a Master's, before they were masked on the board.

No LORs, no failed PT tests, no Q-2 or Q-3 check rides.

For flyers on the VML.  Does your commander strat you in their ADP comments to the assignment team? 

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59 minutes ago, brabus said:

Doesn’t Dyess have a reserve unit? Run!!!

Took the devil's money back when everyone and their brother was telling me I'd definitely get promoted.  Committed to 2027.  After that I plan to retire fully, not look for a Guard or Reserve job.

 

Quote

For flyers on the VML.  Does your commander strat you in their ADP comments to the assignment team? 

Talent Marketplace now, the losing commander gets some comments that we can't see.  Hasn't been applicable to me in the last four VMLs, because I was removed.  "Too critical to lose you from the FTU".

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Took the devil's money back when everyone and their brother was telling me I'd definitely get promoted.  Committed to 2027. 

If you’re passed over again next year you’ll have the option to decline continuation. I’m not saying...just saying!

Gotta pay back any “unearned” portion of your bonus of course.  

Options are nice to have

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4 hours ago, pawnman said:

Took the devil's money back when everyone and their brother was telling me I'd definitely get promoted.  Committed to 2027.  After that I plan to retire fully, not look for a Guard or Reserve job.

 

Talent Marketplace now, the losing commander gets some comments that we can't see.  Hasn't been applicable to me in the last four VMLs, because I was removed.  "Too critical to lose you from the FTU".

I thought the whole point of TM was to make things more transparent and remove commander comments a member couldnt see? 

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2 hours ago, MooseClub said:

If you’re passed over again next year you’ll have the option to decline continuation. I’m not saying...just saying!

Gotta pay back any “unearned” portion of your bonus of course.  

Options are nice to have

Ours was a mandatory half up front.  And I don't have $60k laying around to buy my way out of active duty.

Plus, in all honesty, I like my job, I like my jet, I like my coworkers.  Sure, Big Blue took a dump on my career.  But that doesn't mean I want to leave my current situation.  I especially don't want to go ART and lose one weekend a month while still working during the week.

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5 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Ours was a mandatory half up front.  And I don't have $60k laying around to buy my way out of active duty.

Plus, in all honesty, I like my job, I like my jet, I like my coworkers.  Sure, Big Blue took a dump on my career.  But that doesn't mean I want to leave my current situation.  I especially don't want to go ART and lose one weekend a month while still working during the week.

No comment on the money. That's your business how you run your personal finances.

 

As to the ART, can't believe they're still peddling that crap over an AGR, especially in this hiring environment. 307th clownshow standard. I see not much has changed since I left that dumpster fire.

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If someone has 15 years in, is it ever worth  it to go AGR and delay your retirement by 16+ years?

I understand not wanting to deploy and being sick of that aspect, but The benefit isn’t clear to me

 

 

 

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You’re not delaying your retirement. If you take 5 years of AGR orders after punching at 15, you can retire at 20 years and 0 days with a full AD retirement. So the question is, why the fuck would anybody stay in AD if they had the aforementioned option available.

Now if you don’t go AGR and just do traditional guard, you can get 20 “good guard years,” which delays retirement benefits until 59, 60...something like that. Perhaps that’s what you’re thinking of. 

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Yeah, thanks.   Not many active duty guys are aware of this AGR option.....

 

how do we we learn more?  I did not know that the option existed.

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23 hours ago, pawnman said:

Only two officers in my year group.  He didn't have ANY DPs and had to get one at the MLR for the #1 guy.

IMO your SR was speeding on your PRF.  If your SR only had 2 IPZ and no DPs to give then the #1 guy's push would have said something like "If I had a DP to give then it would be automatic".  Your SR then competed at the MLR and got him a DP.  So your SR stating "If I had one more DP to give" is speeding since your SR never had a DP to give in the fist place.  The good news is the fact that your SR was trying to help you out...but I'm curious what your PRF (and the #1 guy's) looked like when it went up to the MLR.  Usually SRs call each other out on that stuff.

I would have to look at your top 2 or 3 OPRs to get better insight.  I would say you were definitely on the cusp and it sucks the luck was not on your side.  How many MSMs do you have?  As for the rest, I think you pretty much nailed it:  Not being on a staff and the lack of FGO strats hurt.

Good on you for having a positive attitude.  When you meet with your SR ask if there's anything you can do to get one of his DPs next year/be his #1 push at the MLR...his answer should tell you a lot.  Good luck. 

 

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1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

IMO your SR was speeding on your PRF.  If your SR only had 2 IPZ and no DPs to give then the #1 guy's push would have said something like "If I had a DP to give then it would be automatic".  Your SR then competed at the MLR and got him a DP.  So your SR stating "If I had one more DP to give" is speeding since your SR never had a DP to give in the fist place.  The good news is the fact that your SR was trying to help you out...but I'm curious what your PRF (and the #1 guy's) looked like when it went up to the MLR.  Usually SRs call each other out on that stuff.

I would have to look at your top 2 or 3 OPRs to get better insight.  I would say you were definitely on the cusp and it sucks the luck was not on your side.  How many MSMs do you have?  As for the rest, I think you pretty much nailed it:  Not being on a staff and the lack of FGO strats hurt.

Good on you for having a positive attitude.  When you meet with your SR ask if there's anything you can do to get one of his DPs next year/be his #1 push at the MLR...his answer should tell you a lot.  Good luck. 

 

Two MSMs.  Top two OPRs are the strongest ones, where I got the FGO/Maj strats.

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Duty titles could have mattered a bit too in this case

 

Ever a flt cc?  Ado?  

 

Absolutely great that you were stratted high the past 3 oprs, that should be all that matters

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35 minutes ago, bennynova said:

Duty titles could have mattered a bit too in this case

 

Ever a flt cc?  Ado?  

 

Absolutely great that you were stratted high the past 3 oprs, that should be all that matters

Flt/CC yes, ADO no.  I think that's probably part of the problem as well...I went from shop chief to flight commander at my ops squadron, then the FTU made me a flight commander followed by shop chief, then I went to OGV.  So that probably didn't do me any favors either.

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3 hours ago, bennynova said:

Yeah, thanks.   Not many active duty guys are aware of this AGR option.....

 

how do we we learn more?  I did not know that the option existed.

Big picture is Title 10/Title 32 are AD orders.  AGR is generally Title 32, but deployments and some schools (maybe some staff) is Title 10.  Either way, these are AD “days” that go towards an AD retirement.  As soon as you have 20 years of AD “days,” you are eligible for retirement and immediate retirement benefits (vs. waiting like a traditional guard retirement).  Keep in mind, some squadrons are handing out years of AGR orders like candy, others are not.  So where you want to live/what unit you want to be in could be on either side of that.

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1 hour ago, bennynova said:

Duty titles could have mattered a bit too in this case

It means a lot. 

It was out of Pawnman's control but he should have had more breadth of experience and progression in responsibility.

For the young people reading this, continue to work hard but make sure your duty title is commensurate or exceeds your rank/TIR/TIS.  Know the key duty positions at each level of command as you progress in rank and you should be switching jobs about every 1.5 years.  As much as we like to think that if we just keep working hard our boss will take care of us, the truth is your careers needs to be actively managed (not backstabbing) by you and your boss.  Your boss's effort to take care of you depends on your performance, politics, favoritism, available resources, his moral compass and etc. 

No one in the military is ever too valuable to leave a position/unit/command.  We are all replaceable.

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18 hours ago, pawnman said:

Ours was a mandatory half up front.  And I don't have $60k laying around to buy my way out of active duty.

Plus, in all honesty, I like my job, I like my jet, I like my coworkers.  Sure, Big Blue took a dump on my career.  But that doesn't mean I want to leave my current situation.  I especially don't want to go ART and lose one weekend a month while still working during the week.

Repayment is not necessarily a given. My bonus didn’t have any up front cash options, but I separated 7 months after my annual payout anniversary and was told by finance as long as I had worked (earned) 50% of the bonus there would be no recoupment. 

They haven’t taken anything back yet....

 

 

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12 hours ago, brabus said:

Big picture is Title 10/Title 32 are AD orders.  AGR is generally Title 32, but deployments and some schools (maybe some staff) is Title 10.  Either way, these are AD “days” that go towards an AD retirement.  As soon as you have 20 years of AD “days,” you are eligible for retirement and immediate retirement benefits (vs. waiting like a traditional guard retirement).  Keep in mind, some squadrons are handing out years of AGR orders like candy, others are not.  So where you want to live/what unit you want to be in could be on either side of that.

Also, bear in mind an AGR job and a civilian job will be governed by USERRA laws which requires an employer ‘retain’ you as an employee.  While you serve on active duty orders, you still keep your civilian job **and accrue seniority** (for up to 5 years)

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32 minutes ago, Ash said:

Repayment is not necessarily a given. My bonus didn’t have any up front cash options, but I separated 7 months after my annual payout anniversary and was told by finance as long as I had worked (earned) 50% of the bonus there would be no recoupment. 

They haven’t taken anything back yet....

 

 

Just wait until the VA gets involved in your life.  I know, apples and oranges , but not really, save it.

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Wow I've had my head in the sand...I've been flying consistently for 13 years really enjoying it, deployments, IP, SEFE, signed a 3 year bonus, no FGO Strats IPZ coming up.  I've enjoyed my career, I briefly rushed a few Guard units when I was at my ADSC but then negotiated for my dream assignment.  If I pass the smell test is there any other hurdles to getting a guard/reserve job after getting passed over?

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21 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

No comment on the money. That's your business how you run your personal finances.

 

As to the ART, can't believe they're still peddling that crap over an AGR, especially in this hiring environment. 307th clownshow standard. I see not much has changed since I left that dumpster fire.

They’re finally getting smart and converting a bunch of ART jobs to AGR. Miraculously, they now have RNs and EWs taking those spots!

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4 hours ago, Ash said:

Also, bear in mind an AGR job and a civilian job will be governed by USERRA laws which requires an employer ‘retain’ you as an employee.  While you serve on active duty orders, you still keep your civilian job **and accrue seniority** (for up to 5 years)

And some orders are USERRA exempt, meaning you’ll get more than 5 years of building seniority...if you can stand to stay full time mil that long. 

The grass is so much greener...

Edited by brabus

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49 minutes ago, brabus said:

And some orders are USERRA exempt, meaning you’ll get more than 5 years of building seniority...if you can stand to stay full time mil that long. 

The grass is so much greener...

Are there civilian jobs that are NOT pilot jobs where seniority matters?

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2 hours ago, brabus said:

And some orders are USERRA exempt, meaning you’ll get more than 5 years of building seniority...if you can stand to stay full time mil that long. 

The grass is so much greener...

Your if statement is a major qualifier there.  Many of us can't even stand the thought of going on a 2 year order to get the big bonus.  This is why I'll never understand why the ANG didn't push for the 1 year big bonus, like the AFR was able to get.  Also, there are tons of USERRA exempt orders...up on the staff (no sts).  The same staff that has denied adding a few vital positions to the list of USERRA exempt status.  

As for the rest of this thread.  Having a boss who doesn't use the proper words, or not having the "right" medals/titles...what a fucked up system.

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