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Our CAG got ahold of Gen Kelly’s briefing for the upcoming CORONA prep. He is recommending new LAF categories breaking out ops/support/acquisition. There is also a push for shorter OPRs with both the rarer and additional rarer ranking performance on a 1-7 scale. He is not recommending static closeout dates. 

Who knows what will be approved and when but this seems like a step in the right direction. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Jmnngata said:

Our CAG got ahold of Gen Kelly’s briefing for the upcoming CORONA prep. He is recommending new LAF categories breaking out ops/support/acquisition. There is also a push for shorter OPRs with both the rarer and additional rarer ranking performance on a 1-7 scale. He is not recommending static closeout dates. 

Who knows what will be approved and when but this seems like a step in the right direction. 

My CC was saying ACSC shouldn't be a factor for Lt Col. Ironically, one of her mentors is Gen Kelly.

She told me if our colonel doesn't get her an assignment to where she wants next, a phone call will be made to Gen Kelly. I was like damn, she has star power like that eh?

Edited by Shazaam
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It's not about the color of the oak leaves.  It's about the extra $5k a year in retirement pay.
Not worth it....
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For the ARC guys in the room...while a PITA, after running some numbers, I found doing ACSC (correspondence) worth it.  Even though I won't be getting my part timer retirement until I'm 58ish, the payoff is fairly substantial.  Couldn't care less if my ID/retirement paperwork says maj or lt col.  I knocked most of it out over a deployment or while on airline trips.  Of note, I'm a prior-e that is eligible for lt col at 18 YOS so I'll only need to extend a small time to hit my three years.  Thankful for a unit that doesn't do bullshit like keep make their Majors and Lt Col ROPMA.  In that case, there's no way I'd do ACSC...I'll refer back to Shazaams gif.
Last time I ran the numbers for myself, it was going to be somewhere around $300 per month net difference in todays dollars with almost 5,000 points. Not sure what your idea of "worth it" is, but $300 a month isn't it for me especially when I'd have to do nearly 22 years to get it, but I just about ROPMA'd to O-4.

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8 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Last time I ran the numbers for myself, it was going to be somewhere around $300 per month net difference in todays dollars with almost 5,000 points. Not sure what your idea of "worth it" is, but $300 a month isn't it for me especially when I'd have to do nearly 22 years to get it, but I just about ROPMA'd to O-4.

Ya, everyone has a different definition of "worth it."  For me, I'll only have to stick around another year, which is fairly easy considering I live < 10 minutes from the Guard and within an hour of the airline.  It also helps that my squadron is extremely flexible with scheduling.  My gross difference will be closer to $600/month or about an extra $140k if I live 20 years past when I start receiving my retirement (57-58).  I'll make an extra $7k on our next deployment and an extra $6k/yr to do the same job as a part-timer.  It will also be nice to have as insurance in case anything goes wrong with the airlines.  Seems kinda silly for me to pass up on that just because I was too lazy to take some quizzes and write a few papers...papers that I'm convinced only need to have the proper formatting to pass.  I completed ACSC over about 4 years while on deployments/TDYs/drill days/airline layovers...so I was never not getting paid to work on it.   

Had my squadron not promoted us as soon as we were eligible or adopted the ridiculous policy of forcing their guys to ROPMA (even for O-4 in some squadrons), I would be in the same boat as you.  

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Posted (edited)

Choosing to skip ACSC online is not due to laziness... Its proving that it’s completely worthless. Just like you said, all it takes is formatting of a paper (or marking answer “c” / “too long to be wrong”) to pass. Again validation what a waste of time/money/resources  the course truly is.

Edited by IDALPHA
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5 hours ago, IDALPHA said:

Choosing to skip ACSC online is not due to laziness... Its proving that it’s completely worthless. Just like you said, all it takes is formatting of a paper (or marking answer “c” / “too long to be wrong”) to pass. Again validation what a waste of time/money/resources  the course truly is.

 

I get everyone has their own reasons, but I most certainly would have considered myself lazy had I not done it.  If you want to talk colossal waste of time/money/resources...we can look at my last two "deployments" (which happens to be where I did a vast majority of my ACSC).  8 months worth of deployments to sit and fly training lines...with the 2nd deployment being in such a shitty weather location that we actually cancelled as much as we flew.  At least the next time they send us on another bullshit deployment they'll be paying me extra cash for my efforts.  Or I could have just skipped it and let them pay me a shit ton less over my remaining time in the military/retirement years...that would have showed them!  

 

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Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

You could be in for a shock. Boss told me don't worry about ACSC or receiving a "P." I'm not worried at all to be honest. Everything happens for a reason.

It would just suck for the people who did complete ACSC, if the board actually promoted the personnel who didn't do it. I just became a DO of a non-flying squadron. Not sure how the board will view my record as a sitting DO. I PCS'd just in time to have my duty title updated on my SURF.

Edited by Shazaam

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

I'm an '05 guy and I'm not doing it.  I'm in the Guard though, so that probably doesn't help you much.  🍻

I gave up way too many beautiful weekend afternoons while on Active Duty writing useless papers for an even more useless MBA that I really didn't need/want in the first place.  I practiced bleeding with SOS in correspondence so that I could go in residence.  About the only good that came from that was that I learned that I needed to get off AD ASAP.  

There's no way in hell I'm going to spend the next few years with that constant nagging of having to do some stupid module for ACSC. For what - an extra $300-$600 a month in 20 years?  I've got way to much other fun stuff I need to do when I'm not giving up my days off from the airline to knock out NVG currencies and SABC. 

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2 hours ago, Shazaam said:

You could be in for a shock. Boss told me don't worry about ACSC or receiving a "P." I'm not worried at all to be honest. Everything happens for a reason.

It would just suck for the people who did complete ACSC, if the board actually promoted the personnel who didn't do it. I just became a DO of a non-flying squadron. Not sure how the board will view my record as a sitting DO. I PCS'd just in time to have my duty title updated on my SURF.

So I did ACSC via correspondence. A few years later I decided to do the OLMP (already had a Masters, but it was free so why not?). Won an award with my research paper (my name is on a plaque at a school I have never set foot in) and was a sitting DO in a non-flying SQ and still got passed over.

YMMV, but, I think it’s really about how much your leadership likes you and is willing to go to bat for you. I say do ACSC if it interests you. If it doesn't, then don’t. It won’t be the thing that tips your promotability one way or the other. Your records did that years ago.

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Posted (edited)

i will say i wish i had gotten my masters. not cause of anything big blue related...but as i fill out my civilian resume it'd be a nice additional line to have on there

and big blue could have paid for it.

kind of think the same thing about ACSC...is it dumb? sure. but it's one more professional "school" to add for future civilian endeavors.

Edited by BashiChuni

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2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

i will say i wish i had gotten my masters. not cause of anything big blue related...but as i fill out my civilian resume it'd be a nice additional line to have on there

and big blue could have paid for it.

kind of think the same thing about ACSC...is it dumb? sure. but it's one more professional "school" to add for future civilian endeavors.

The exact reason I got my masters (for free with TA) was for my resume outside the AF.... sounds like that was at least a good move.

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6 hours ago, pawnman said:

Man...I sure hope as many '05 year group dudes skipped ACSC as this forum seems to imply.  Because like I already said - I want to get promoted.  I don't have an airline job waiting for me.  I took the bonus, so I'm here until I retire.  And I'd prefer if the Air Force didn't have the option to decline continuation and make me pay back $100K when they kick me out.

Navs will run the AD AF in a few years... most pilots worth their salt that didn’t fall for the bonus will be out.... you’ll be just fine. I mean, you got all the containers filled.

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4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

i will say i wish i had gotten my masters. not cause of anything big blue related...but as i fill out my civilian resume it'd be a nice additional line to have on there

and big blue could have paid for it.

kind of think the same thing about ACSC...is it dumb? sure. but it's one more professional "school" to add for future civilian endeavors.

Who are you applying to that cares about ACSC? Getting a Project Manager cert, CDL, HVAC license, or iPhone screen repairman online degree would likely make you 10x more desirable than ACSC.

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1 hour ago, IDALPHA said:

Navs will run the AD AF in a few years... most pilots worth their salt that didn’t fall for the bonus will be out.... you’ll be just fine. I mean, you got all the containers filled.

And half of those that stay will get passed over and probably walk with their BRS.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 14N Guy said:

So I did ACSC via correspondence. A few years later I decided to do the OLMP (already had a Masters, but it was free so why not?). Won an award with my research paper (my name is on a plaque at a school I have never set foot in) and was a sitting DO in a non-flying SQ and still got passed over.

YMMV, but, I think it’s really about how much your leadership likes you and is willing to go to bat for you. I say do ACSC if it interests you. If it doesn't, then don’t. It won’t be the thing that tips your promotability one way or the other. Your records did that years ago.

This thread has gotten really interesting. There is supposed to be less emphasis on ACSC. You are supposed to go when the AF wants you to go. In a sense, you don't determine that time is what I was told. That is the mentorship nugget that was passed down to me yesterday from my CC. This intel could be the equivalent of the weapons of mass destruction we never found in Iraq. 

Just curious, what kind of DO position were you occupying?

A bud from AFROTC is a T-38 IP in Hell Rio. He was shocked I had to go in on a Saturday as a DO. I was like yeah, I go in to lead by example because my people have to give up their Saturday. I told him we do graduate 39K-40K trainees a year. Not the same as UPT.

Edited by Shazaam

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8 hours ago, Shazaam said:

This thread has gotten really interesting. There is supposed to be less emphasis on ACSC. You are supposed to go when the AF wants you to go. In a sense, you don't determine that time is what I was told. That is the mentorship nugget that was passed down to me yesterday from my CC. This intel could be the equivalent of the weapons of mass destruction we never found in Iraq. 

Just curious, what kind of DO position were you occupying?

A bud from AFROTC is a T-38 IP in Hell Rio. He was shocked I had to go in on a Saturday as a DO. I was like yeah, I go in to lead by example because my people have to give up their Saturday. I told him we do graduate 39K-40K trainees a year. Not the same as UPT.

A boarded 14N position in an ISS (a specialized comm Squadron that supports DGS core sites). I’m the only 14N in a sea of 17Ds/3Ds. 14N senior leaders state that all 14N O-4 boarded leadership positions are created equal. If that is the case, mine is at the end of the bench.

 

I have heard the same thing about IDE. The 14Ns I know that have gone to ACSC have their next few assignments planned out by 14N senior leaders. I don’t know if everybody sent to IDE in-res is being groomed for O-6, but it certainly acts as a gate for 14Ns, if they want to progress to the higher levels of the 14N world.

 

It’s kind of like in-res attendees are new to Scientology and ACSC is their audit to get them to a higher operating Thetan level. Hopefully Tom Cruise doesn’t kick my ass now.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/24/2019 at 5:01 PM, Shazaam said:

You could be in for a shock. Boss told me don't worry about ACSC or receiving a "P." I'm not worried at all to be honest. Everything happens for a reason.

It would just suck for the people who did complete ACSC, if the board actually promoted the personnel who didn't do it. I just became a DO of a non-flying squadron. Not sure how the board will view my record as a sitting DO. I PCS'd just in time to have my duty title updated on my SURF.

Your CC sounds  very uneducated 

you should be worried if you care... you are on the fringe with a P.    Not doing ACSC almost says do not promote

Edited by bennynova
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bennynova said:

Your CC sounds  very uneducated 

you should be worried if you care... you are on the fringe with a P.    Not doing ACSC almost says do not promote

The sad part is I don't think I'm on the fringe. I don't feel like I want it as much as Pawnman and he would deserve to be promoted more than me. All I ever wanted as a kid was to be in the NBA or a pilot. 

My CC means well, so I have to give her some credit right? Somehow she knew before everyone else that she got promoted to Lt Col. Maybe she was told something about this board because they no $h@t met right down the street (optimistic).

Dudes like you in this forum help keep me grounded. I'm not expecting anything from the AF come release day. I'll take a shot of Korean soju regardless of the outcome for the fellas who make O-5! And another shot for not doing ACSC!

Edited by Shazaam

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I'm off-topic.  Sort of.  If you are interested in business/finance, however, read on: I'd like to offer a rebel's argument on a limited embrace of some "careerism."

From where I sit, a well-ranked MBA program (and there goes my anonymity!): I'm not bragging, I was very fortunate.  This opportunity has given me some perspective and credibility re: "what matters" after AD in this path.

1.  AD me hated quarterly and annual awards.  We spend 50% of our time patting ourselves on the back, and the system is broken, in different flavors in different locations.  Forget that.  If you're thinking about getting out and aiming high in business, I urge you to think about YOUR interests and not protesting the system.  I notched some awards late in my career that have paid big dividends in getting some selective interviews.  Many others have the same experience.  If you can get these, DO SO.  Play the long game and don't be a rebel without a cause.

2.  The only thing that matters on your resume is being able to talk about and defend what you write in an interview.  10% truth rule, 100% truth rule . . . who cares.  What is on your OPR/PRF is irrelevant.  If you are willing to stand your ground and tell your story, make your own bullets for later.  Your integrity is not judged on an OPR/PRF, but on you and any references the firm contacts.

3.  Your narrative/story is everything.  What motivated you through your career?  When/why did your objectives change?  What evidence is there to believe the story you tell?  Forget the OPRs.  No one reads them or asks for them, but they will ask you about the details.  Think about what brings your path together in terms of objectives and motivations, and do whatever you can on AD to make the facts fit the story when you talk to your boss and peers about the next steps.

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On 4/24/2019 at 5:40 PM, IDALPHA said:

Choosing to skip ACSC online is not due to laziness... Its proving that it’s completely worthless. Just like you said, all it takes is formatting of a paper (or marking answer “c” / “too long to be wrong”) to pass. Again validation what a waste of time/money/resources  the course truly is.

Tactical victory at a strategic loss. 

Is it truly without worth if it increases your pay? Going from a 14+ O-4 to a 16+ O-5 is netting me over $1,100/month more because not failing to complete a “worthless course” didn’t make a bunch on non-ops O-6s (the majority of your board make-up) look at me as lazy or unpromotable.

Good for you for going full Kaepernick and having a belief. But don’t be surprised if it nets the same result from the corporation. 

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22 hours ago, Shazaam said:

This thread has gotten really interesting. There is supposed to be less emphasis on ACSC. You are supposed to go when the AF wants you to go. In a sense, you don't determine that time is what I was told.

Years ago we were told to get a Masters. Then we were told we didn’t need one. Then we did again. Now we need one for O-6. Standing by for next pendulum swing.

ACSC is no different.  And if you think senior raters are really following CSAF guidance when they decide what they value in a person going up for promotion, I challenge you to look at how many things were made optional that they still insist on doing month after month. 

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Years ago we were told to get a Masters. Then we were told we didn’t need one. Then we did again. Now we need one for O-6. Standing by for next pendulum swing.
ACSC is no different.  And if you think senior raters are really following CSAF guidance when they decide what they value in a person going up for promotion, I challenge you to look at how many things were made optional that they still insist on doing month after month. 

This.

I don’t trust the AF when it comes to masking/unmasking. Unless you’re a made man, the bottom 90% is generally hard to differentiate. Senior rater endorsement has to carry considerable weight at the central boards. Enough to put you over the cutline? I don’t know. But it’s naive to think the SR doesn’t have easy discriminators like in-correspondence completion or AAD to stratify folks.

So, if O-5 is part of your plan, then you skip ACSC at your own risk. Even if you consider it worthless.

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