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Promotion and PRF Information

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2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Pilot promotion rates go down. Source: see the USN pilot promotion issues.

 

Can always cross-train to supreme allied AOC commander... or whatever that new AFSC is.

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2 hours ago, Klepto said:

Can always cross-train to supreme allied AOC commander... or whatever that new AFSC is.

Multi-ethnic operations?

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6 hours ago, dream big said:

Any IDE grads on here care to share whether it was actually valuable for your leadership development and career beyond the checked box?

Not in-res IDE grad, but I completed two squadron commands without going in-res. If one can command without going in-res, it can’t be that important.

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Not in-res IDE grad, but I completed two squadron commands without going in-res. If one can command without going in-res, it can’t be that important.

Flying squadron? Did you make O-6?


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5 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


Flying squadron? Did you make O-6?

AMXS x2, as a Major. Not quite there yet. Just got back in an airplane and meeting O-5 IPZ board.

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AMXS x2, as a Major. Not quite there yet. Just got back in an airplane and meeting O-5 IPZ board.

Good luck to you. O-4 seems pretty typical for an AMXS CC. I’ve yet to meet a flying CC who didn’t complete IDE in res.


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Also. I’ve only had one permanent DO who was an O-4, but he was an IDE grad an O-5 select. I know a non-IDE grad who got picked up for OSS/DO, but he will go to IDE 2nd or 3rd look.


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14 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


Good luck to you. O-4 seems pretty typical for an AMXS CC. I’ve yet to meet a flying CC who didn’t complete IDE in res

Most AMXS/CC’s are at least Lt Col selects and many are in-res IDE grads. AMXS command is the pinnacle of the mx officer world outside of being an O-6. I was an oddball (not special) as a pilot and young major.

Most flying sq/cc’s these days are in-res grads. That may change as dudes are choosing different paths. It’s always been a joke that the path to command is through attrition, it’s becoming less and less of a joke.

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PME in-res exists across the services and not unique to the Air Force.  In peace time, this is simply a rat race (as an example, no derogatory insinuation intended).  At the maze's exit there is an O-10 billet waiting for the lucky rat.  To get there, the rat has to successfully complete various tasks, DO, Sq/CC, PME in-res, various levels of O-6 command, exec tours, joint staff tours, inter-agency tours, SLS, Pentagon, MAJCOM command, COCOM command and etc.   For most in the Air Force, PME in-res and Sq/CC are the "pinnacle", but really they are just entry level objectives in the grand scheme of things.  So while you don't need PME in-res to be a Sq/CC, but you are likely to need at least one of the two PME in-res to be a GO.

Knows the rules of the game before you play.  Or to quote WarGames:  "The only winning move is not to play."

Edited by panchbarnes
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4 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

PME in-res exists across the services and not unique to the Air Force.  In peace time, this is simply a rat race (as an example, no derogatory insinuation intended).  At the maze's exit there is an O-10 billet waiting for the lucky rat.  To get there, the rat has to successfully complete various tasks, DO, Sq/CC, PME in-res, various levels of O-6 command, exec tours, joint staff tours, inter-agency tours, SLS, Pentagon, MAJCOM command, COCOM command and etc.   For most in the Air Force, PME in-res and Sq/CC is the "pinnacle", but really they are just entry level objectives in the grand scheme of things.  So while you don't need PME in-res to be a Sq/CC, but you are likely to need at least one of the two to be a GO.

Knows the rules of the game before you play.  Or to quote WarGames:  "The only winning move is not to play."

Which is a little disheartening, because the more folks that figure that out, the fewer folks will be willing to put in the hours once you miss the first gate.  Didn't DG out of SOS?  Might as well quit now, because the guy that did will get the IDE slot, staff, and command.  

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4 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Which is a little disheartening, because the more folks that figure that out, the fewer folks will be willing to put in the hours once you miss the first gate.  Didn't DG out of SOS?  Might as well quit now, because the guy that did will get the IDE slot, staff, and command.  

Non-concur.  I was a P on my major PRF, no SOS DG (or any DG), not a school select off my O-4 board and in my third look for school I got selected for CGSC and heading to my 1BPZ O-5 board with a DP.  The first change CSAF made for IDE selection directly helped me by elimating school selects off the O-4 board and broadening the candidate pool (not sure about this recent DA change though).   Of course, there are still made guys who are on the way to multiple BPZ promotions, command and in-res school programs...but I'd like to think this track starts around year 12 or 13 now instead of year 7 or 8.    I'd also like to think its highly possible, if not highly probable, that a lot of those made guys are actually really solid....of course a few douche canoes get through....would be the case in any system in any org.  

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Since most people like to reference the proverbial "made-man", I can attest that the opposite is also true. I.e. I have seen cases where someone with DG's from every level (USAFA/ROTC, UPT, SOS), #1 strat's at the sqd/grp/wg level, high-level awards, selected 1st look for school to a highly competitive fellowship program loses out, on BTZ promotion board to O-5, to a pretty decent "average" officer sans all the glitzy stuff mentioned above because the average guy was an exec for a GO just before the promotion board.  These examples highlight that the "made-man" theory is less about DGs/strats/awards than it is about who you know and when you knew them.

Bottom line:  I believe a lot of our frustrations can be traced to a mismanaged meritocracy.  However, I have a hard time believing it could be less subjective in the civilian sector. 

  

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1 hour ago, Jetpilot said:

because the average guy was an exec for a GO just before the promotion board.  These examples highlight that the "made-man" theory is less about DGs/strats/awards than it is about who you know and when you knew them. 

When I was a mid-level Captain I had two majors (solid dudes) on the CAG staff try to give me career mentoring, the secret to success...PCS your way to any HAF job and find an exec position as fast as you can to ensure future success.  I thought at the time, WTFO this is crazy talk and maybe borderline desperate.  But you know what?  It's the correct strategy (if promotion is your priority) and I really appreciate the dudes for willing to share the secret recipe with me (no I didn't follow their advice).  This is for a non-rated ops AFSC, but probably works for everyone. 

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4 hours ago, pawnman said:

Which is a little disheartening, because the more folks that figure that out, the fewer folks will be willing to put in the hours once you miss the first gate.  Didn't DG out of SOS?  Might as well quit now, because the guy that did will get the IDE slot, staff, and command.  

Someone high up in the food chain finally acknowledged this and hence we now have the DA PME in-res option.  For the late bloomers to get a chance to the "on-ramp" and be competitive for O-6 and beyond.

Let's see how well this program gets implemented.

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2 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Someone high up in the food chain finally acknowledged this and hence we now have the DA PME in-res option.  For the late bloomers to get a chance to the "on-ramp" and be competitive for O-6 and beyond.

Let's see how well this program gets implemented.

I guess we'll see, but the consensus from the board here seems to be that shiny pennies will take the guaranteed slots every year.

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14 hours ago, celtic020 said:

 Of course, there are still made guys who are on the way to multiple BPZ promotions, command and in-res school programs...but I'd like to think this track starts around year 12 or 13 now instead of year 7 or 8.  

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15 hours ago, celtic020 said:

Non-concur.  I was a P on my major PRF, no SOS DG (or any DG), not a school select off my O-4 board and in my third look for school I got selected for CGSC and heading to my 1BPZ O-5 board with a DP.  The first change CSAF made for IDE selection directly helped me by elimating school selects off the O-4 board and broadening the candidate pool (not sure about this recent DA change though).   Of course, there are still made guys who are on the way to multiple BPZ promotions, command and in-res school programs...but I'd like to think this track starts around year 12 or 13 now instead of year 7 or 8.    I'd also like to think its highly possible, if not highly probable, that a lot of those made guys are actually really solid....of course a few douche canoes get through....would be the case in any system in any org.  

I think you're overly optimistic about the timeline.  I'll have 14 years in June.  I'm past my third look for school (happened last year) and this year is my IPZ to Lt Col.  If guys are going to get multiple BPZ promotions and in-res school slots, it's going to have to start NLT year 10.

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Seems that way.  I totally get working staff prior to going back to command an ops unit, but I have a hard time seeing value added in ACSC besides the box to check.
Any IDE grads on here care to share whether it was actually valuable for your leadership development and career beyond the checked box?


I was a third look non select picked up off the alternate list. Lucked out and went to joint school (NIU).

It was a great year and I learned a ton about how the IC works, visited pretty much all the three-letters and had a fairly diverse class to include all the services (including Coasties), and folks from most of the IC agencies.

The degree was a cross between generic leadership training, IC specific classes, and a poly sci masters. Lots of reading and writing. Thesis over 100 pages and required 80% of the writing done in the SCIF, although it is entirely possible to write an unclass thesis.

Still, I worked about 3.5 days a week and had a very generous leave/VOCO policy. Definitely a break from squadron ops.

Still, nothing there “prepped” me for command (and certainly no guarantee of getting one). I did make some good contacts which may or may not help me later on.

I don’t think IDE is built around making someone a better candidate for flying sq command. It’s more helpful for learning some doctrine and how staff jobs are organized. Still won’t make you a staff genius since that’s all built around relationships and working with people.

TLDR: Fun year, nice break from the ops world, and some cool experiences outside of the USAF bubble, but should not be a pre req for command in the flying community.

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Went to CGSC...took away a couple of nuggets that have really helped me understand my successive Joint (spelled A-R-M-Y) assignments But overall a huge waste of time, although the DLI program, the electives and the SOF branch-off after holiday break were pretty good. In-Res IDE might put you in the ballpark (on someone's command list) for SQ/CC but no guarantees. I was a draft pick to be named later so I went out and found myself a job. 

Just remember, there is no "ONE" path and timing is everything (Life Rule #1).

Cooter

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The MyPers board status states current as of 29 March, with the O-5 board still not showing as adjourned.  Longest board ever? 

Perhaps due to all the additional exercises they’re doing based of the Corona decisions...

zb

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On ‎3‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 3:17 PM, dream big said:

Seems that way.  I totally get working staff prior to going back to command an ops unit, but I have a hard time seeing value added in ACSC besides the box to check.

Any IDE grads on here care to share whether it was actually valuable for your leadership development and career beyond the checked box?

ACSC was not useful for improving leadership skills.  However, ten months of being on the golf course by 11:30 was not a bad gig.  SAMS is a completely different story - I thought it was a great program for developing officers who would command squadrons and battalions.

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Anyone have any insight into the IDE nomination procedure? I had heard that either you get nominated on your first look (fast burner) or third look (any other nom), but the second look was pretty much a throwaway. Any truth to that?

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