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Think I have a chance 2BTZ with a blank PRF and a P?

 

 

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Think I have a chance 2BTZ with a blank PRF and a P?
 
 
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Absolutely!

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5 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:


Great. They really need to just break pilots out of the LAF for promotion purposes. 

TTX for this is going on now at Randolph. Expect table slap at Fall Corona if it all goes well. The Army’s figured it out, can’t be that hard.

Also two line PRFs.  #execLove

Chuck

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46 minutes ago, Chuck17 said:

TTX for this is going on now at Randolph. Expect table slap at Fall Corona if it all goes well. The Army’s figured it out, can’t be that hard.

Also two line PRFs.  #execLove

Chuck

Absolutely agree we need to break our operators from support in terms of determining promotion. It’s ridiculous to expect a finance/contracting officer to understand the nuances of growing up in ops and vice versa. 

With regard to 2 line prfs, the usaf already has a hard time getting it right when it comes to understanding an officer’s pedigree in 9 lines.  With only 2 lines, we might as well only promote wing execs, aide de camps and the like.  

 

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3 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

Absolutely agree we need to break our operators from support in terms of determining promotion. It’s ridiculous to expect a finance/contracting officer to understand the nuances of growing up in ops and vice versa. 

With regard to 2 line prfs, the usaf already has a hard time getting it right when it comes to understanding an officer’s pedigree in 9 lines.  With only 2 lines, we might as well only promote wing execs, aide de camps and the like.  

 

It's not only the nuances.  It's the fact that in many support jobs, just staying in long enough to hit a 1 BPZ or IPZ board is enough to get squadron command.  Then we rack-and-stack pilots who are flight commanders or ADOs against support officers in command and wonder why the aviator promotion rates lag the support officer promotion rates.

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Saw an email that said for the upcoming O-5 board, it’s an 85% promotion opportunity. 
Pretty sure that's what it's been for the last several years. Remember, that doesn't mean they'll promote 85% of IPZ. It means the total number of people they'll promote is 85% of the number of IPZ, but the BPZ and APZ folks eat into that.

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Great. They really need to just break pilots out of the LAF for promotion purposes. This is just Fingers not willing to publicly acknowledge that we need to retain pilots. Everybody is a warrior!

 

 

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Saw traffic that I think they are doing a mock board just like this along with the real board to see how this would turn out before executing. Smart move for once. Testing before executing and all.

 

 

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On 2/28/2019 at 11:52 AM, bennynova said:

Yeah, it’s not far off from the norm

 

where does this email come from?

Buddy going up for his 1APZ board showed it to a couple of us. Didn’t see where it came from. My sq/cc said he’d seen the same thing, too. 

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On 2/28/2019 at 9:49 AM, olevelo said:

Pretty sure that's what it's been for the last several years. Remember, that doesn't mean they'll promote 85% of IPZ. It means the total number of people they'll promote is 85% of the number of IPZ, but the BPZ and APZ folks eat into that.

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+1 on this. Historical averages have been similar to this. If you’re in the zone with a DP it’s about 99% promote rate. IPZ with a P is about 45%. APZ with a P is less than 4%. 

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On 2/28/2019 at 5:48 PM, Skitzo said:

 

Saw traffic that I think they are doing a mock board just like this along with the real board to see how this would turn out before executing. Smart move for once. Testing before executing and all.

 

 

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Are you talking about the MLR? Wing commanders have been coming together for years to stage a mock board at the MLR.

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7 hours ago, Ash said:

Are you talking about the MLR? Wing commanders have been coming together for years to stage a mock board at the MLR.

I corroborate his hearsay, its not the MLR nor for the MLR's function. Instead to gather empirical data of new vs old way of PRFs against two promotion boards. Senior leaders needs data before a decision to make PRFs much shorter...

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9 hours ago, Swizzle said:

I corroborate his hearsay, its not the MLR nor for the MLR's function. Instead to gather empirical data of new vs old way of PRFs against two promotion boards. Senior leaders needs data before a decision to make PRFs much shorter...

I think he’s actually referring to the mock board for competitive categories, i.e. aviators only competing against aviators for promotion.

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2 minutes ago, Klepto said:

I think he’s actually referring to the mock board for competitive categories, i.e. aviators only competing against aviators for promotion.

I've heard they want to do that too before seperating the LAF into functional fields promotion categories.

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before. If communities don't value institutional positions now, what would seperating them out do!?!  Or would they fight over a promotion aggregate like an AF MLR notion?

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8 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before.

Yep. Probably.

The pendulum swings yet again.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Which if they did that... How would the institutional job requirements (i.e. school instructors, Recruiters, etc.) be promoted? And against who? I believe they'd be short-changed and even worse off than before. If communities don't value institutional positions now, what would seperating them out do!?!  Or would they fight over a promotion aggregate like an AF MLR notion?

Could be an opportunity to align incentives and encourage the right folks to volunteer for these jobs. 

Want an SOS/OTS instructor (for example) with a rated background and a clue? Offer a (slight but measureable) advantage at promotion. Rated shiny pennies stay where they’re at; hopefully CCs have chosen those wisely... Slightly above average officers and average aviators who may be unlikely to earn a DP [and can stomach it] volunteer for what was formerly a dead-end job in order to increase the expected value of their career-long/life-long pay. Commanders, in turn, are incentivized to send folks they wouldn’t mind coming back to the community at +1 rank. (Nobody wants to figure out what to do with a no-talent, non-bro, lump who outranks most.)

We’d need to guarantee flight pay and some kind of return to fly assurance [tanking the airline opportunity works 100% counter to the intended incentive scheme], but incentive-wise it could be better than the “looks good for your career” half-truth-mostly-lie.  

Edited by jice

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3 hours ago, jice said:

Slightly above average officers and average aviators who may be unlikely to earn a DP [and can stomach it] volunteer for what was formerly a dead-end job in order to increase the expected value of their career-long/life-long pay. Commanders, in turn, are incentivized to send folks they wouldn’t mind coming back to the community at +1 rank.

and we can call it AFPAK Hands!

But in all seriousness, with the DOPMA flexibility from congress this FY your vision is at least possible.

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Posted (edited)

Coming soon:  STEP promotion to Lt Col.

Commanders will be able to select one "Must Send" to IDE as another on-ramp opportunity for outstanding performers.

Let's hope this doesn't turn into the "Exec w/ an IDE follow-on" program.

By the way, this should put to rest any talk about skipping ACSC and making O5.

Edited by panchbarnes

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Define soon?

  And define commander? I.e., does any SRID make the call, or is it just a suggestion to MAJCOM or NAF level and they get to choose 1 from a pool?

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8 hours ago, panchbarnes said:

Let's hope this doesn't turn into the "Exec w/ an IDE follow-on" program.

Is this not inevitable? The boss chooses his best qualified to be the exec from his perspective. Great commanders choose great execs. Bad commanders choose people just like themselves with the same bad leadership characteristics. Then, that person becomes a commander and gets promoted early...wash, rinse, repeat.

Exec duty isn’t a terrible thing (in hindsight). You learn a lot when you work for a good commander. The problem is that bad leaders find a way to propagate their flaws.

 

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We got this memo last week. It's based on SRID for SRs that have more than 20 elligible for IDE. They will get 1 DA "Definitely Attend" and everyone else will go into the traditional pool. Of the 500 something seats at ACSC about 220 will be allocated to DAs. Another 60 will be reserved exclusively for Majors in their last look window. 

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5 hours ago, bennynova said:

Define soon?

  And define commander? I.e., does any SRID make the call, or is it just a suggestion to MAJCOM or NAF level and they get to choose 1 from a pool?

*         Intermediate Developmental Education - FY19 program:  The

CSAF approved the new "Definitely Attend" process allowing Commanders to

identify one high performing airman to definitely attend IDE in-residence.

By pushing this authority down to the Commanders, who know their Airmen

best, we're giving them the flexibility to provide additional "on-ramp"

opportunities for an airman who is an outstanding performer. The MyVECTOR

window for candidates to input their desires and Commanders to input their

recommendations opened on 28 Feb 19 and runs through 29 Mar 19 (Note

eligible officers who are in Student Status (SRID ST101) need to have their

input done by 15 Mar 19).  Commanders must take time to discuss this process

with officers and provide candid feedback on the opportunity to attend

in-residence PME

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You bet your ass the lowest it goes is Wing Commanders and turns into another boarded process, no matter how true the intent.

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38 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

You bet your ass the lowest it goes is Wing Commanders and turns into another boarded process, no matter how true the intent.

Even then, still better to have it at the wing level, where your WG/CC either knows you, or knows your OG/CC, who can advocate for you, right?

Because if your OG and WG/CCs aren't willing to advocate for you, you were never the intended target for this program.  I see it for folks like me... Mid-level strats as a CGO, then top 10-15% in the last two years as a major.  A guy like that will never make it competing against a series of records with #1/x stretching back to their LT days, but could be a candidate for a SR to say "he deserves this shot".

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Like anything else. Good for some not good for others. I have a Maj strat that puts me in the top 10% of over 100 majors. I would argue that 20 vs 100 with only one def attend is disproportionate but I agree with putting it at a lower level.

How about we just abolish the boards and allocate the same as DPs?


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