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Promotion and PRF Information

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So for every 3 majors going up for promotion equates to one DP per wing correct? Let's say you have an IPZ,  2 BPZ, and 1 BPZ going up in the wing for promotion. Does all three individuals have to be IPZ for the wing to receive one DP or does it not matter?

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So for every 3 majors going up for promotion equates to one DP per wing correct? Let's say you have an IPZ,  2 BPZ, and 1 BPZ going up in the wing for promotion. Does all three individuals have to be IPZ for the wing to receive one DP or does it not matter?


That wing would get 0 outright DPs.
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In theory, shouldn’t old guys like you be able to regain proficiency quicker than a new guy? Not hating, genuinely asking.


I only had about 1,000 hours before I was yanked to fly droids. The flying came back pretty quick, but it’s the running the mission and dealing with TACC that takes exposure. I’ve been pretty damn busy this past year and I’ve only flown 350 hours. I’d hate to see how little that would be with a queep job that keeps me from flying.


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8 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

So for every 3 majors going up for promotion equates to one DP per wing correct? Let's say you have an IPZ,  2 BPZ, and 1 BPZ going up in the wing for promotion. Does all three individuals have to be IPZ for the wing to receive one DP or does it not matter?

Your WG/CC needs 3 IPZ officers to get 1 DP.  the rate is actually 55%, but the AFI specifies a cutoff to get the first one.

BPZ officers don't count towards the number of DPs the commander has.  He has to take them from the IPZ pool to give to a BPZ officer.

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15 hours ago, pawnman said:

If you weren't picked up in residence for school, you are already out of the running for SQ/CC...

Food for thought:

1766278_CAFSQCCstats.thumb.jpg.6c4811ceb472ffc9ffb0d095c804e688.jpg

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1 hour ago, Krypto said:

Food for thought:

1766278_CAFSQCCstats.thumb.jpg.6c4811ceb472ffc9ffb0d095c804e688.jpg

I'm seeing 89% with either WIC or IDE.  That's 10-15% (with overlap between those two groups) for everyone else.

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I'm seeing 89% with either WIC or IDE.  That's 10-15% (with overlap between those two groups) for everyone else.

I would think the vast majority of WIC grads end up doing IDE in residence.


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8 hours ago, pawnman said:

Your WG/CC needs 3 IPZ officers to get 1 DP.  the rate is actually 55%, but the AFI specifies a cutoff to get the first one.

BPZ officers don't count towards the number of DPs the commander has.  He has to take them from the IPZ pool to give to a BPZ officer.

Incorrect. DP for APZ officers takes away from IPZ.  DP for BPZs are totally separate. 

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I would think the vast majority of WIC grads end up doing IDE in residence.


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I personally know several WIC guys who didn’t get school. One data point: how many WIC grads are in the 57 WG all competing against each other for that push?

I freely admit that I don’t have the comprehensive data to say that 69% do or don’t go in res.
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1 hour ago, Warrior said:


. One data point: how many WIC grads are in the 57 WG all competing against each other for that push?

 

This. The 57 Wg/CC and the WS/CO do their best to push folks, but you can only do so much.

If the AF adopts a static close out for Officers as is rumored, that problem will only get worse. We’re going to have to recalibrate our eyes when looking at records and not expect everyone to be #1.

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4 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm seeing 89% with either WIC or IDE.  That's 10-15% (with overlap between those two groups) for everyone else.

I don’t think WIC and IDE in-res are mutually-exclusive, as that math implies. But you’re right in the general statement of difficulty you’re presenting. 

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I would say if your goal is squadron combat of a combat flying squadron then being a Patch is almost a requirement.  From what I saw in the RPA community at least all combat squadron commanders were patch wearers while the non-patches commanded the FTU and OSS squadrons.  I’m not saying that’s the case 100% of the time but if one’s goal is command of a combat squadron then a being a patch wearer certainly doesn’t hurt.  Maybe it’s a fairly obvious observation (especially being in ACC) but it’s something I didn’t realize until far too late.   

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I would think the vast majority of WIC grads end up doing IDE in residence.


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I thought it would be higher than 60%. Would like to see the results for AETC HAWK Sq/CC.


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1 hour ago, soupafly06 said:

I would say if your goal is squadron combat of a combat flying squadron then being a Patch is almost a requirement.  From what I saw in the RPA community at least all combat squadron commanders were patch wearers while the non-patches commanded the FTU and OSS squadrons.  I’m not saying that’s the case 100% of the time but if one’s goal is command of a combat squadron then a being a patch wearer certainly doesn’t hurt.  Maybe it’s a fairly obvious observation (especially being in ACC) but it’s something I didn’t realize until far too late.   

If someone goes to WIC to help their future SQ/CC chances, they are fucking it away wholesale.

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1 hour ago, soupafly06 said:

I would say if your goal is squadron combat of a combat flying squadron then being a Patch is almost a requirement.  From what I saw in the RPA community at least all combat squadron commanders were patch wearers while the non-patches commanded the FTU and OSS squadrons.  I’m not saying that’s the case 100% of the time but if one’s goal is command of a combat squadron then a being a patch wearer certainly doesn’t hurt.  Maybe it’s a fairly obvious observation (especially being in ACC) but it’s something I didn’t realize until far too late.   

I've had patch and non-patch commanders in the B-1, but never someone who didn't do IDE and staff.

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I've had patch and non-patch commanders in the B-1, but never someone who didn't do IDE and staff.

Nailed it.


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Just talked to a buddy from the 06 year group. He said Lt Col wouldn't be enough to keep him in the AF. I feel the exact same way. I wonder how many people are going to walk because they don't have a chance of being promoted? Someone eluded to this before where if you know you aren't on the leadership track you simply walk away from the AF. 

Can the AF run with the support officers running the show? They look at things far differently than all of us from what I learned. Pilots know how to talk to people in order to get what we want, especially with civilians. 

Edited by HarleyQuinn

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15 hours ago, Krypto said:

Food for thought:

1766278_CAFSQCCstats.thumb.jpg.6c4811ceb472ffc9ffb0d095c804e688.jpg

CY17 Staff tour 

70+46+92 = 162?

 

Hard to trust the bean counters when they can't add on their own slide shows...

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13 hours ago, osulax05 said:

This. The 57 Wg/CC and the WS/CO do their best to push folks, but you can only do so much.

If the AF adopts a static close out for Officers as is rumored, that problem will only get worse. We’re going to have to recalibrate our eyes when looking at records and not expect everyone to be #1.

My general observations:  dudes assigned to the USAFWC absolutely love their jobs and are there for the right reasons (build, teach, lead).  Also, their sacrifice of time/family life etc. in order to train the next generation is beyond compare.  However, I have seen plenty of 57 WG folk, especially patches, get surpassed by folks at "normal wings".  I can't imagine how a static closeout would affect them even more.

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16 hours ago, brabus said:

If someone goes to WIC to help their future SQ/CC chances, they are fucking it away wholesale.

People shouldn't go to WIC because they want the chance to lead a squadron of professional, tactical aviators in combat?

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10 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Can the AF run with the support officers running the show? They look at things far differently than all of us from what I learned. Pilots know how to talk to people in order to get what we want, especially with civilians. 

CE guy here.

Support officers don’t want to run the show. We just want competent senior leadership. Much of the aircrew senior leadership that I have seen has been LESS mission focused than my CE leadership. I can’t count how many times I have pulled Airmen off of the airfield to make the base look better, trim the General’s hedges, etc.

Regarding pilots knowing how to talk to people in order to get what you want, “especially civilians”...you probably know the least about how the civilian system works or how to get long-term production from civilians. Check your ego at the door.

 

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10 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 

Can the AF run with the support officers running the show? They look at things far differently than all of us from what I learned. Pilots know how to talk to people in order to get what we want, especially with civilians. 

 

ATC chatter doesn't count.

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42 minutes ago, frog said:

CE guy here.

Support officers don’t want to run the show. We just want competent senior leadership. Much of the aircrew senior leadership that I have seen has been LESS mission focused than my CE leadership. I can’t count how many times I have pulled Airmen off of the airfield to make the base look better, trim the General’s hedges, etc.

Regarding pilots knowing how to talk to people in order to get what you want, “especially civilians”...you probably know the least about how the civilian system works or how to get long-term production from civilians. Check your ego at the door.

 

I can’t disagree with this. I’ve had a pilot O-5 personally order us to pick up pine cones in the grass to make the sq look “better” for the wing king. 

Everyone just wants competent leadership. If it’s a CE guy I’d be all for it. 

Where I have beef is when finance or medical are always closed early and acting like the SUPPORTED asset and not the SUPPORTING asset

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7 hours ago, Jetpilot said:

My general observations:  dudes assigned to the USAFWC absolutely love their jobs and are there for the right reasons (build, teach, lead).  Also, their sacrifice of time/family life etc. in order to train the next generation is beyond compare.  However, I have seen plenty of 57 WG folk, especially patches, get surpassed by folks at "normal wings".  I can't imagine how a static closeout would affect them even more.

You’re preaching to the choir on the work the WS cadre put in. 

A static close out would take away a SR’s room to maneuver for strats and pushes which will make the tough situation you and I both described worse. 

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2 hours ago, frog said:

Regarding pilots knowing how to talk to people in order to get what you want, “especially civilians”...you probably know the least about how the civilian system works or how to get long-term production from civilians. Check your ego at the door.

I've never had a problem talking to or working with civilians. I can't speak for every rated officer, but I know a vast majority of the pilots would excel dealing with the oversight of civilians. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work with civilians.  Most of us switch jobs in a squadron every year so we are all fully capable. I've had contractors working directly for me. If I had it my way, more contractors would do the queep jobs in squadrons to free up flyers to you know, fly!

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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