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6 hours ago, olevelo said:


So datapoint within those datapoints for you...I'm one of those IPZ pass-overs this year (should have been IPZ last year, but that's another story). TPS grad, TPS instructor, and currently in a Sq/CC equivalent position. But not enough strats and awards (because I compete with a bunch of high performer fighter pilots and such).

You don't fall under USAFWC do you?  PM if you'd like, just curious.

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On 8/11/2017 at 3:19 PM, olevelo said:


So datapoint within those datapoints for you...I'm one of those IPZ pass-overs this year (should have been IPZ last year, but that's another story). TPS grad, TPS instructor, and currently in a Sq/CC equivalent position. But not enough strats and awards (because I compete with a bunch of high performer fighter pilots and such).

Pretty impressive, just poor OPRS or negative discriminator in your records?

I would like to assume that TPS grad then instructor has to be above the run of the mill. 

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On 8/10/2017 at 11:19 PM, olevelo said:


So datapoint within those datapoints for you...I'm one of those IPZ pass-overs this year (should have been IPZ last year, but that's another story). TPS grad, TPS instructor, and currently in a Sq/CC equivalent position. But not enough strats and awards (because I compete with a bunch of high performer fighter pilots and such).

Quit, join AATC, get promoted.  See, not hard.

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Pretty impressive, just poor OPRS or negative discriminator in your records?
I would like to assume that TPS grad then instructor has to be above the run of the mill. 

No negative discriminators. Well, except I was RIF'd in 2014, and then that was subsequently undone a year later (hence why I'm being my original year group). But I had all of that on my record in the RIF too...basically a function of being a 12M core and luck of the draw (I'm a 12S now). No one had any good answer for why it happened in the first place. But in any case, now I have an "OPR" (Form 77) that says "restored to active duty by order of the SECAF". The promotion board doesn't necessarily know why, but I'm guessing they can work it out by the dates....and it just looks weird.

As for the rest of my records, I have a UNT DG, TPS of course, a smattering of quarterly awards, decent vectors, but not many strats at all (remember, competing against fighter pilots and other TPS grads...we can't all be #1!), and that's the killer. I have better recent strats (post-RIF) but not extraordinary.

Meeting an SSB in September after getting another straggler correction fixed finally, so maybe the new board members will see differently. Or there's always next year!

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1 hour ago, olevelo said:


No negative discriminators. Well, except I was RIF'd in 2014, and then that was subsequently undone a year later (hence why I'm being my original year group). But I had all of that on my record in the RIF too...basically a function of being a 12M core and luck of the draw (I'm a 12S now). No one had any good answer for why it happened in the first place. But in any case, now I have an "OPR" (Form 77) that says "restored to active duty by order of the SECAF". The promotion board doesn't necessarily know why, but I'm guessing they can work it out by the dates....and it just looks weird.

As for the rest of my records, I have a UNT DG, TPS of course, a smattering of quarterly awards, decent vectors, but not many strats at all (remember, competing against fighter pilots and other TPS grads...we can't all be #1!), and that's the killer. I have better recent strats (post-RIF) but not extraordinary.

Meeting an SSB in September after getting another straggler correction fixed finally, so maybe the new board members will see differently. Or there's always next year!

Good luck that is insane! I guess we r not hurting bad enough for rated folks (end sarcasm)!

Edited by Guest

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Y'all should see the facial reactions I get when I tell the story in person. :) I will say, my Wg/CC did say before this board that he'd grade my record as basically an average score, so it would depend on how the board valued TPS and rated, and where the cut line ended up being. AFPC feedback was that with all of the RIFs, Force Shaping, and voluntary departures, its left mostly stronger performers so the cut line has moved up.

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1 hour ago, gearpig said:

That's some fascinating insight into how AFPC views the rated exodus.

 

The counselor at AFPC doesn't have a clue, really, as to why someone got passed over. All they do is compare your record against 10 promoted records. I want to say they are close to the cut line, but I'm not a confident in that assumption. What did that they have that yours didn't? That's it. They don't get access to any notes and they don't have any insight into what the board members were thinking. Its a guessing game. FWIW, after the reduced promotions in 2014, they've used the increased number of stronger APZ records getting promoted as an excuse for the decreased IPZ chances.

 

Regardless, don't invest your ego in the rank you wear on your shoulder. Bust your ass, do the job well, provide officership to best of your ability, and let the chips fall where they may. Whether or not you get promoted, you'll be a lot happier for it.

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The shoeclerks at AFPC and the managers who sit on the board who somehow got eagles on their shoulders don't give a F about things like TPS, WIC, your instructional ability, or how many air medals you earned while their execs were sitting at home station polishing said manager's you know what and earning the top strats.  Heck many of them may not even be able to tell you the difference between a B1 and B2, or ever stepped out of the MSG building, but they have the biggest influence on who leads the Air Force.

If this mentality changes it will take a while. In the mean time, most of my peers and I will do what we believe is right: be good in the airplane, enable the flying mission, make the young guys better and go hack the mission.  If we get promoted, great.  If we don't, well Delta/AA/UAL/SW, the guard/reserves could use a few people. 

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The counselor at AFPC doesn't have a clue, really, as to why someone got passed over. All they do is compare your record against 10 promoted records. I want to say they are close to the cut line, but I'm not a confident in that assumption. What did that they have that yours didn't? That's it. They don't get access to any notes and they don't have any insight into what the board members were thinking.

That's correct, except the records are a random sampling of P's who were promoted...she doesn't know which if any are near the cut line. While she doesn't know what the specific board looked at, she has seen the "random sampling" over the last several years so has seen the relative strength increase, for what it's worth.

Meeting with your senior rater (hopefully one who has sat on a board previously) is much more valuable than the AFPC talk, but it's not entirely worthless either. Wish they had that for the RIF too. Instead it was "too bad so sad see ya later".

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FWIW, our O-6 recently mentioned to us that they are now looking for combat/deployment time on the Lt Col board PRF.

Edited by panchbarnes

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You buried the lead, NAV.  

Well considering my first reply about it was in reference to 12X promotion rates, pretty sure it was implied!
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FWIW, our O-6 recently mentioned to us that they are now looking for combat/deployment time on the Lt Col board PRF.

That was mentioned in the AFPC feedback as well, because they don't see your whole SURF...they infer deployment history from the PRF and Decs. Mine was in both, but lack of recent deployment (because I'm a tester, not ops) might have hurt...but she thought what was in there was fine.

On a slightly related note, our Wing has a new policy on OPRs that the first line of the rater's block has to have some sort of qualifier (strat like), in addition to any strat in the bottom line. Said it was due to what he saw in a promotion board he sat on, that it was a big discriminator. Anyone else hear of that or already have similar policy?

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I wonder if sitting in the school house vice being at one of the test squadrons working on sexy programs made your PRF less competitive?  In my experience, the FTEs and even the human factors O-4s did well from having that ops stink.

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I wonder if sitting in the school house vice being at one of the test squadrons working on sexy programs made your PRF less competitive?  In my experience, the FTEs and even the human factors O-4s did well from having that ops stink.

I was in a test squadron for 2.5 years, then OGV attached to the same squadron for another year, prior to being an instructor. But I had some pretty crappy leadership who didn't take care of folks with strats and awards during that time, so I probably would have been better off in the schoolhouse!

 

And I was one of the first two AC-130J CSOs, so how much sexier can I get?!

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On 8/13/2017 at 6:56 PM, olevelo said:

And I was one of the first two AC-130J CSOs, so how much sexier can I get?!

6.9 times more if you were a pilot.

 

Sorry brother we have not done the ACJ test folks justice, hoping that changes.

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On 8/13/2017 at 5:11 PM, panchbarnes said:

FWIW, our O-6 recently mentioned to us that they are now looking for combat/deployment time on the Lt Col board PRF.

Interesting, considering I've had peers told "you've done too many deployments, you need to find a job outside the ops squadron if you want to get promoted".

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4 hours ago, pawnman said:

Interesting, considering I've had peers told "you've done too many deployments, you need to find a job outside the ops squadron if you want to get promoted".

What's old is new and what's new is old.  50$ says masters will become unmasked for 04 promotion within the next decade. 

One of my buddies passed over explained it best: "I just got passed over, I have 2 days to write my PRF for the next board with zero feedback, and am somehow expected to perform up to a secret set of moving standards that the board members decide are the flavor of the year."

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Checked MyPers today and it looks like pending Congress approval, '08 YG Maj selects with line #s 1-191 should start pin on in Oct. 

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Checked MyPers today and it looks like pending Congress approval, '08 YG Maj selects with line #s 1-191 should start pin on in Oct. 


So at this rate it will take til Sep 18 to finish. What again was the point of moving the 09 yg up?

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21 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

Checked MyPers today and it looks like pending Congress approval, '08 YG Maj selects with line #s 1-191 should start pin on in Oct. 

 

19 minutes ago, Lstcause257 said:

 


So at this rate it will take til Sep 18 to finish. What again was the point of moving the 09 yg up?

 

Increments can change by month.

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