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Promotion and PRF Information


Guest e3racing

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If you don’t know you’re going places then you aren’t going places. Simple as that. 
Mid level captains are on the “path” and know it. 
I feel bad for some of you guys slugging it out with wording of push lines

100% correct.

It pains me to see people thinking feedback is the problem. If you receive honest feedback that you need to improve, you are not on the path and never were.

Honest feedback is reserved for counseling chosen ones on how to maintain their path.


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16 hours ago, matmacwc said:

This is why it is broken, the secrecy and all that.  I know there is a tiered system( 1,2,3) where tier 1 are your HPO's, 2 is everyone else and 3 is the dude why can't pass a PT test.  You'll never see that one either.  

If the Corona rumors are true about removing strats and going with top, middle bottom pushes, this will fix the feedback problem.  Dude had no idea he was in the bottom 15% of his year group until the board told him he was.  Getting an early bottom rating on a Lt or Capt OPR will let you know where you stand, and make appropriate life choices about getting out or going guard or reserves if you want to continue to serve.    

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4 hours ago, di1630 said:


100% correct.

It pains me to see people thinking feedback is the problem. If you receive honest feedback that you need to improve, you are not on the path and never were.

Honest feedback is reserved for counseling chosen ones on how to maintain their path.


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That's why people want the feedback.  I don't have to be a Golden Child to make Lt Col and retire.  And if I know I'm not a Golden Child, then the Air Force can no longer entice me with "this 365 will be good for your career" or "you need to take this job in the wing staff for career broadening".  If I already know it's hopeless as a mid-level captain, I can make my calculations without that false hope...keeping me from sucking up a terrible job in the hopes of getting a senior rater to strat me.

 

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If the Corona rumors are true about removing strats and going with top, middle bottom pushes, this will fix the feedback problem.  Dude had no idea he was in the bottom 15% of his year group until the board told him he was.  Getting an early bottom rating on a Lt or Capt OPR will let you know where you stand, and make appropriate life choices about getting out or going guard or reserves if you want to continue to serve.

I could have used this feedback.  I had won a quarterly award for 6 quarters straight after PCSing to my current base.  I was the flight commander of the year for the Operations Group.  I was the instructor of the year for the FTU.  I had a #3/64 strat from the group commander on my top OPR...and yet, with a 75% DP allocation rate to major, I got a P.  I was in the top 5% of FTU instructors, the best flight commander in the group...and somehow, still at the bottom 25% of my year group.  

And I found out I was in the bottom 25% when I got my PRF handed back to me.  Every rater and commander prior to that PRF getting handed back told me how well I was doing and that I had a pretty good shot at going to school.  Talk about eroding your faith in the system.

 

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Any 05 guys and gals around? I remember the AF holding our year group back a year for promotion. We also survived a riff. I wonder how many folks are actually left to promote? No, I didn't do ACSC because I frankly don't give a d&$n!

There's precisely 2 of us at my base.  I'm not even sure what the cut-off is for the WG/CC to get a DP to hand out to us.  It's me and another flyer...at least I'm not competing with a sitting SQ/CC in the MSG for the DP this time around.

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Anyone have insight into the new major board 100% promotion opportunity shindig? Looking at the stats from last year, there were ~3x as many DPs as there were Ps. If I recall correctly it was 100% promotion for pilots with DPs. Pilots with Ps only got around 76%. Were there good dudes still getting passed over with clean records or was that mostly from DUIs, PIFs, etc? My MPF office hasn’t known anything about the upcoming board, so I haven’t been able to get much info on how it’s working.

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Damn pawnman, if you didn’t get a DP with that record I definitely don’t stand a chance. Being a MAF/RPA/MAF reject, I wonder why my SQ/CC and others are trying to convince dudes like me to stay in. If I did, it would just be a few more years before I’m passed over twice and deciding between continuation or separation. So why not make that decision now, move back to where I can spend time with my extended family, and get on with the rest of my life?

Other things I hear are that 06-07 guys are all but guaranteed O-6 if they just stay active duty. Somehow I don’t believe that.


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1 hour ago, MooseAg03 said:

Damn pawnman, if you didn’t get a DP with that record I definitely don’t stand a chance. Being a MAF/RPA/MAF reject, I wonder why my SQ/CC and others are trying to convince dudes like me to stay in. If I did, it would just be a few more years before I’m passed over twice and deciding between continuation or separation. So why not make that decision now, move back to where I can spend time with my extended family, and get on with the rest of my life?

Other things I hear are that 06-07 guys are all but guaranteed O-6 if they just stay active duty. Somehow I don’t believe that.


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That's my goal. Advancement through attrition. Almost no one left in my year group or the two behind me.  The Air Force is begging retired O-5s and O-6s to come back.  Seems to indicate there are a lot of openings at the O-5/O-6 level. Remains to be seen if the USAF can be smart about filling them... The last promotion board doesn't seem to be much of a departure from the ones that occurred in the past few years though, so...

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I think the 100% promote rate for all career fields to O-4 was a case of Fingers realizing he needed to retain pilots, but was unwilling to tell the on-rated types they’re not as important. We won’t go to 100% for all career fields to O-5, and Fingers doesn’t have the spine to call the baby ugly by going to 100% for just pilots.

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

That's my goal. Advancement through attrition. Almost no one left in my year group or the two behind me.  The Air Force is begging retired O-5s and O-6s to come back.  Seems to indicate there are a lot of openings at the O-5/O-6 level. Remains to be seen if the USAF can be smart about filling them... The last promotion board doesn't seem to be much of a departure from the ones that occurred in the past few years though, so...

If you want to retire as an O-5, the Guard is hiring

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6 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Why do you need to retire as an O-5? O-4 isn’t too shabby.

Do what you want. If you want to 365 your way to an O-4 retirement, have at it.

The option is to do the same job in the Guard, have significantly less AD BS in your life and still make O-5 for a federal retirement (about $500/mo more in retirement). 

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I think the 100% promote rate for all career fields to O-4 was a case of Fingers realizing he needed to retain pilots, but was unwilling to tell the on-rated types they’re not as important. We won’t go to 100% for all career fields to O-5, and Fingers doesn’t have the spine to call the baby ugly by going to 100% for just pilots.


They don’t think they need 100% to O-5...they know you can go to 24 as an O-4.
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They don’t think they need 100% to O-5...they know you can go to 24 as an O-4.

They promote doctors to O-5 at damn near 100%. What’s the logic in that other than the increased paycheck aiding in retaining someone whose education and experience command a high salary in the private sector?


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11 hours ago, di1630 said:


100% correct.

It pains me to see people thinking feedback is the problem. If you receive honest feedback that you need to improve, you are not on the path and never were.

Honest feedback is reserved for counseling chosen ones on how to maintain their path.


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Lots of folks make O-5 without being an HPO. All I wanted to know was where I went wrong in my career to not even be in the top 70% of my year group.

 

Personnaly, I don’t think that is an unreasonable ask.

 

I finally got the feedback I needed 15 and a half years into my career and it was the first time a senior officer had been bluntly honest with me about why things shook out the way they did.

 

Even the leaders that gave me the terrible push lines never told me why they gave me those push lines. They had an opportunity to explain what I had done wrong and what I could have done to not make the same mistakes in the future. Asking leaders to be accountable to their decisions is something that every organization should do and I hope the changes coming down the pipe force the AF to do that.

Break-break

Retiring as an O-4 isn’t bad at all. I thought about going guard/reserve but I want my retirement to begin the day I leave active duty, not when I am 58-60. It means moving more and possibly getting terrible jobs, but, it will only be as bad as I let it be especially since the rules of the game don’t apply to me anymore.

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1 hour ago, 14N Guy said:

 

Retiring as an O-4 isn’t bad at all. I thought about going guard/reserve but I want my retirement to begin the day I leave active duty, not when I am 58-60. It means moving more and possibly getting terrible jobs, but, it will only be as bad as I let it be especially since the rules of the game don’t apply to me anymore.

You do realize you can still get a federal retirement starting at the time you hit 20yos while being in the Guard right?

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Even the leaders that gave me the terrible push lines never told me why they gave me those push lines. They had an opportunity to explain what I had done wrong and what I could have done to not make the same mistakes in the future. Asking leaders to be accountable to their decisions is something that every organization should do and I hope the changes coming down the pipe force the AF to do that.

You’re making the assumption that those “leaders” intentionally gave you bad push lines, and not that they just didn’t know what they were doing. I’ve been amazed at the O-5’s, and even O-6’s, that have no clue how to take care of people...even Sq/CC’s. They probably got there because they had leaders who did know how to take care of them, but didn’t pass that knowledge along. When I got the news that I was twice passed over, the O-6, who was a former MSG/CC, said she had no idea what the process was because she had never seen an officer get passed over. It’s folks like us who actually know and understand the system, far better than many “leaders”. Of course we had to take our lumps to get that info...


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3 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

I think the 100% promote rate for all career fields to O-4 was a case of Fingers realizing he needed to retain pilots, but was unwilling to tell the on-rated types they’re not as important. We won’t go to 100% for all career fields to O-5, and Fingers doesn’t have the spine to call the baby ugly by going to 100% for just pilots.

We'll see.  Gen Ray (AFGSC/CC) recently told us that the last Corona talked about breaking LAF into smaller competitive categories.  Could be a step towards changing promotion rates based on AFSC.

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Took the devil's money. I'm committed until I retire.

Unless you’re twice passed over. If you decline continuation your bonus ADSC goes away.


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22 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:


Unless you’re twice passed over. If you decline continuation your bonus ADSC goes away.


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Yeah, but then you have to pay back the unearned portion of the bonus - the kicker is that you pay back 100% of the unearned value, not the 75% you received after taxes. So it actually costs money out of your pocket to turn down continuation.

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2 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

You do realize you can still get a federal retirement starting at the time you hit 20yos while being in the Guard right?

Yep. For me, there were no AGR positions open where I wanted to live.

 

1 hour ago, olevelo said:


You’re making the assumption that those “leaders” intentionally gave you bad push lines, and not that they just didn’t know what they were doing. I’ve been amazed at the O-5’s, and even O-6’s, that have no clue how to take care of people...even Sq/CC’s. They probably got there because they had leaders who did know how to take care of them, but didn’t pass that knowledge along. When I got the news that I was twice passed over, the O-6, who was a former MSG/CC, said she had no idea what the process was because she had never seen an officer get passed over. It’s folks like us who actually know and understand the system, far better than many “leaders”. Of course we had to take our lumps to get that info...


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Valid points about leadership not understanding the boards language and lazy Wing staffs not doing their jobs

 

There was a lot that happened in my situation where I know they wrote the push lines exactly how they meant them. They wanted to send a message because we had butted heads multiple times. However,   they nevertheless told me why they wrote what they wrote; all i could do was go off my interpretation of the relationship.

 

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

The point of HPO is not to make O5.....

True. I’m agreeing with your point on feedback and I disagree with the AF on how it addresses feedback.

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Yeah, but then you have to pay back the unearned portion of the bonus - the kicker is that you pay back 100% of the unearned value, not the 75% you received after taxes. So it actually costs money out of your pocket to turn down continuation.

You get it back on your taxes

Also, you can time your declination such that your sep date coincides with your bonus payment date.

 

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1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

You get it back on your taxes

Also, you can time your declination such that your sep date coincides with your bonus payment date.

 

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My bonus date is pretty much equal to my retirement date... So...

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There's precisely 2 of us at my base.  I'm not even sure what the cut-off is for the WG/CC to get a DP to hand out to us.  It's me and another flyer...at least I'm not competing with a sitting SQ/CC in the MSG for the DP this time around.

 

55% I believe. So 1.1 DPs rounded down to 1.0 and the carry over goes to the MLR. Hey the worst you can get is the “If I had one more,” so you should be good. That’s what I got.

 

 

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