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Promotion and PRF Information


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16 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

What's the current thought on having "Def Promote" in the push line, but a P overall...carry any weight, or meaningless?

I'm IPZ this year and just got my prf back with a P.  Loads of combat time, few DGs (though honestly they're from flying programs and not school, so I cynically think they carry less weight), few lower level awards, and small, but consistent strats.  I fully expect to get passed over. 

You have the number to that truck driving school we saw on tv, Truck Masters I think it was?  I might need that.

Disclaimer: Each promotion board gets new guidance, and that specific guidance, nor the actual decision making process in the board is never transparently communicated afterwards.  In short, you’ll never know why you did or did not make it.

The “if I had one more DP to give” is the best ‘super P’

For the P’s, in recent boards, if the verbal DP is tied with a strong command push like “should command now” or “ready for command immediately” that can put you in the high portion of the P’s.  Conversely, if tied with a medium command push like “on track to command”, that verbal DP becomes less powerful.

It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats.  My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked.  Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate.  Passed over.  Even colonels who’ve sat on boards looked at it and said WTF.  Even the civilian passed over counselor (I think she’s the only one, or one of a very few, so she has a good feel for the system) was a bit baffled.  Our awesome opaque process at work.

Honestly, after talking to a marine and some army guys I work with, I think the USAF promotion system is terrible and horridly riddled with unknowns.  By comparison, the marines get a list of exactly who’s on the board beforehand.  Ours sucks.  Don’t put any value on it.

Bottom line, once it’s sign, let it go and decide what kind of officer and man YOU want to be.  The ink representing some “leader’s” opaque opinion of your career DOES NOT define the impact you make.  Only you do that.  Don’t let the output of a broken system limit your contribution.  If you’ve got a lot of combat hours, chances are good that you have a lot to teach young kids, and a lot to pass on to your community.

I know that doesn’t make the process any easier to endure, and you will likely still want to throat punch a “leader” or two if you get passed over.  But know that regardless of rank and what the broken system decides, your inputs and experience are truly valuable to the LTs whose lives your experience and instruction can save.

 

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1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Disclaimer: Each promotion board gets new guidance, and that specific guidance, nor the actual decision making process in the board is never transparently communicated afterwards.  In short, you’ll never know why you did or did not make it.

The “if I had one more DP to give” is the best ‘super P’

For the P’s, in recent boards, if the verbal DP is tied with a strong command push like “should command now” or “ready for command immediately” that can put you in the high portion of the P’s.  Conversely, if tied with a medium command push like “on track to command”, that verbal DP becomes less powerful.

It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats.  My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked.  Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate.  Passed over.  Even colonels who’ve sat on boards looked at it and said WTF.  Even the civilian passed over counselor (I think she’s the only one, or one of a very few, so she has a good feel for the system) was a bit baffled.  Our awesome opaque process at work.

Honestly, after talking to a marine and some army guys I work with, I think the USAF promotion system is terrible and horridly riddled with unknowns.  By comparison, the marines get a list of exactly who’s on the board beforehand.  Ours sucks.  Don’t put any value on it.

Bottom line, once it’s sign, let it go and decide what kind of officer and man YOU want to be.  The ink representing some “leader’s” opaque opinion of your career DOES NOT define the impact you make.  Only you do that.  Don’t let the output of a broken system limit your contribution.  If you’ve got a lot of combat hours, chances are good that you have a lot to teach young kids, and a lot to pass on to your community.

I know that doesn’t make the process any easier to endure, and you will likely still want to throat punch a “leader” or two if you get passed over.  But know that regardless of rank and what the broken system decides, your inputs and experience are truly valuable to the LTs whose lives your experience and instruction can save.

 

Meanwhile, I work with the one guy who had a DP checked, and still got passed over to Lt Col.  The civilian lady told him: 1. You didn't have enough FGO awards and 2. The board didn't think your DP was legit based on the other strats in the PRF.

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3 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

It’s a tough code to crack...especially when you involve strats.  My IPZ PRF had a straight #10/20 senior rater strat, but an “on track for command” and no verbal DP, with a “P” checked.  Sounds cut and dry: exactly middle of the total pack, should be high P area with an overall 75% promotion rate.  

 

This is best understood in the context that the 75% promote rate overall really breaks down to DP = 99% promote and P = 50% promote. 

If you are a P then you have a little less than a 50/50 shot at promotion. In the P category it really is hard to understand why one gets passed over while another gets promoted. I was a “super P” at the Wing level and the Wing Exec who had a straight P was passed over. Our Wing had 4 eligible. Two DPs promoted. Two Ps were 50/50. We had similar records. Hard to distinguish between our records. It’s a mystery. 

Of course, he’s flying for Delta now so it’s debateable that he’s the one who lost out. 

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This is best understood in the context that the 75% promote rate overall really breaks down to DP = 99% promote and P = 50% promote. 
If you are a P then you have a little less than a 50/50 shot at promotion. In the P category it really is hard to understand why one gets passed over while another gets promoted. I was a “super P” at the Wing level and the Wing Exec who had a straight P was passed over. Our Wing had 4 eligible. Two DPs promoted. Two Ps were 50/50. We had similar records. Hard to distinguish between our records. It’s a mystery. 
Of course, he’s flying for Delta now so it’s debateable that he’s the one who lost out. 


QFT. I had a ton of O-6s dumbfounded why my record wasn’t promotable to O-5.

But there is something to be said about not giving a flying about what my OPR says these days as a 2x passed over dude.

The funny thing about the whole deal? I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will.
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4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will.

 

More people need to realize this earlier in the career path.

Chess, not checkers.

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On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:45 AM, ThreeHoler said:

The funny thing about the whole deal? I’ve impacted more pilots than pretty much most O-5 Sq/CCs and O-6 OG/CCs or Wg/CCs...and I’ll still wind up flying for some airline just like they will.

 

 

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:00 PM, FourFans130 said:

More people need to realize this earlier in the career path.

Chess, not checkers.

I just got my IPZ  LtCol PRF with the P checked  and weak  DP push line.   I didn't even know what a weak push line looked like (hence my first visit to baseops in years) so thanks to those who shared that info.

ThreeHoler and FourFans are spot on here, at least the way I see it.

I just wonder when big blue will stop pretending with all of this - we need pilots but we're still passing dudes over because they were pilots.  I am not bitter, seriously- I have had my chess game going for a long time.  highly recommend that to future operators! 

 

 

Edited by Recut
because I'm old and my computer sucks
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I just got my IPZ  LtCol PRF with the P checked  and weak  DP push line.   I didn't even know what a weak push line looked like (hence my first visit to baseops in years) so thanks to those who shared that info.
ThreeHoler and FourFans are spot on here, at least the way I see it.
I just wonder when big blue will stop pretending with all of this - we need pilots but we're still passing dudes over because they were pilots.  I am not bitter, seriously- I have had my chess game going for a long time.  highly recommend that to future operators! 
 
 


Sorry man, best I can guess with a decent P push is that you and I are still in the same boat. Damn shame, I don’t physically think I could have done any more to earn a DP. So if you think similarly you and I have nothing to be disappointed about.

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Thanks for that.  I'm good, I knew how it would play out even though I reserved a small amount of hope that someone would value my flying creds/and even non flying leadership stuff over queep.  But, it is what it is. 

I would be appalled if you're not promoted from what you've shared - completely sucks you have to stress about it until they announce results............I just can't see how you won't be promoted from that info tho

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Yup.  my push mentions nothing of commanding.  Wonder why we play these games though when there's the "command track" and other BS nonsense and operators on the other hand.   Why wait until now when I was never on the command track to tell me I'm not on the command track? 

Again, I am good and not bitter at all.  Dent to the ego but I knew where I stood as a captain, let alone at this board.  I've always been an operator and have never played "the game" so this is no surprise for me. 

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1 hour ago, Recut said:

Yup.  my push mentions nothing of commanding.  Wonder why we play these games though when there's the "command track" and other BS nonsense and operators on the other hand.   Why wait until now when I was never on the command track to tell me I'm not on the command track? 

Again, I am good and not bitter at all.  Dent to the ego but I knew where I stood as a captain, let alone at this board.  I've always been an operator and have never played "the game" so this is no surprise for me. 

an "operator".

lulz. love it.

you got your subdued c-17 SOL2 patches on or wat? get at me son

#C-17_Delta_Force

#Bitch_I_Operate

don't take it personally bro i'm a few whiskey's deep at 2 am....its all good

but for the record youre a pilot. Not. An. Operator. 

Nothing wrong with that. I’m a pilot too. Shots x69

Edited by BashiChuni
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4 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

an "operator".

lulz. love it.

you got your subdued c-17 SOL2 patches on or wat? get at me son

#C-17_Delta_Force

#Bitch_I_Operate

don't take it personally bro i'm a few whiskey's deep at 2 am....its all good

but for the record youre a pilot. Not. An. Operator. 

Nothing wrong with that. I’m a pilot too. Shots x69

How's life over there in the pilot group?  Because at my wing, we have an Operations Group.

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Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

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Bashi, what’s going on in your life man? You’ve been a negative Nancy for a while man.

I’m guessing it’s the pre-op hormones they have him taking.
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