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18 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I'm left with the question: Is anyone inside the 17D career field trying to make a culture of excellence?  No doubt working with a gene pool as broad and deep (and quite shallow in some parts from what you say) is an overwhelming obstacle.  But is anyone telling these kids they're worth the time invested?  It sounds like you are and a select few others are, but is there a culture shift in progress in your favor? 

Because there should be.

Oh yea.  Wedge at 24 AF is pushing it hard.  Youv'e got that in a lot of the no-kidding Cyber Ops Sq's.  On the DODIN/Base Support side...not as much.  They've jacked with the career-fields and capabilities for about a decade straight.  Hard to keep that and build up a culture of excellence.  Plus, you can go from a hard charging kill our enemies unit to a Comm Sq...because we're all 17D cores.  Think about that one for awhile and how that plays in with the folks who don't want to hack, and then the folks who don't want to do mission support!

It's very slow going as we've got a wide array of senior leaders who think that putting Amn on "crew rest" counts as making them operators, but not holding them accountable for not executing an order because they think (as a SrA) they've got a better idea.

I'm off to a legit kill the bad guys unit soon, so I'll be dipping out of the Win10 upgrades and such for at least a couple of years!  Hopefully I'll pin on Maj sometime during this stint.

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On 5/8/2018 at 6:32 AM, pawnman said:

They are definitely just trying to take care of themselves, especially when the guys passed over to Lt Col on the IPZ board are told things like "It's because you didn't have enough FGO awards in your record".

You better believe I'm putting in a 1206 every damn quarter for an FGO award.

If it's not the number of FGO awards, the programs and amount of money you oversee will be the next discriminator. I swore my buddies package said something like a billion dollars. He just counted the price of every satellite we ever launched. Oh and he managed 300 EKIAs, but only deployed once. I don't even think some task forces kill that many dudes.

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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5 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

I'm off to a legit kill the bad guys unit soon, so I'll be dipping out of the Win10 upgrades and such for at least a couple of years!  Hopefully I'll pin on Maj sometime during this stint.

Brother, I'm glad we've got guys like you.  Keep at it and thanks for keeping it real.  Appreciate your insight.  Hope you can keep posting here at your next assignment.

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14 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

 I swore my buddies package said something like a billion dollars. He just counted the price of every satellite we every launched.

Damnit...I should have done that.

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My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

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8 hours ago, Skitzo said:

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

strat juggling at it's finest.

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10 hours ago, Skitzo said:

My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

You got the silver bullet...you'll get promoted.  

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My OPR closed out in Dec. “2/10 Maj’s in YG” WG/CC. 1/3 in YG OG/CC.

PRF result: 4/13 I/APZ... if I had one more DP to give...

It’s going to be a long six months. Especially with cyber bros having billions of dollars in impact.

Timing is everything. I’ve never been good at that.

That’s a decent push line, the “if I had one more” statement is normally a positive indicator to the board
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Skitzo are you APZ or IPZ?  If IPZ I think you’re a shoe-in.  If APZ and no derogatory information, I think you have a better than 50% chance.

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

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1 hour ago, Skitzo said:

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

Yeah, but did you get the cream to sugar ratio correct on your aide tour?

Clearly not ready for the big leagues.

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2 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 

ITZ

 

2x FGO OTY at Sq level. #2 as FGO PRO OTY at the Group Level. FGO OTQ at the GP level. Numerous category 1b levil strats. 2/7 squadron ccs and 2/14 joint O4s

 

Two squadron commands under my belt while deployed. Currently commanding 130 folks in Maintenance Operations.

 

Absolutely no overall major strats.

 

Your chances look good.  The command bullets you've got and the "super P" push are foundational for the current promotion climate.  What kind of command push did you get?  "Ready for command now" or something to that degree is good.  If it's something along the lines of "on track to command", that communicates that you're not ready yet in the eyes of that rater.

My frame of reference is once passed over (about to be twice based on my current PRF) ops guy.  WIC, Det/CC, good strats, but never sat gp/wg exec, didn't get good PRF strats nor command pushes for various opaque "command decision" reasons.  I've been through the counseling.  The command push and command potential is what seems to be the current flavor of the week for the promotion boards.

From what I've been told and what I've seen, your super P and your demonstrated command capability should land you with about a 75% chance or greater. 

Note: If you haven't don't the primary mission of the USAF recently, that will not hurt you at all.

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Skitzo you’ll make O-5.  If for no other reason simply because you used the term “catagory 1b level strat” which I’m not sure what it is, but sounds like something O-5s should know.  

Seriously though, you’ll be fine.  What you’re describing sounds like what an average board member puts in the “yes” pile.... assuming no derogatory info.

Edited by tac airlifter
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https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/

 

Any O-6s or HPOs care to weigh in on the above? Obviously I left well before the level of discussion in the article, but is the O-6 exodus as bad as he makes it out to be? I knew higher ranks were Political (as is being an Officer in general) but he makes it sound like it's more tribal than a country club in the deep south.

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11 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Your chances look good.  The command bullets you've got and the "super P" push are foundational for the current promotion climate.  What kind of command push did you get?  "Ready for command now" or something to that degree is good.  If it's something along the lines of "on track to command", that communicates that you're not ready yet in the eyes of that rater.

My frame of reference is once passed over (about to be twice based on my current PRF) ops guy.  WIC, Det/CC, good strats, but never sat gp/wg exec, didn't get good PRF strats nor command pushes for various opaque "command decision" reasons.  I've been through the counseling.  The command push and command potential is what seems to be the current flavor of the week for the promotion boards.

From what I've been told and what I've seen, your super P and your demonstrated command capability should land you with about a 75% chance or greater. 

Note: If you haven't don't the primary mission of the USAF recently, that will not hurt you at all.

What's the current thought on having "Def Promote" in the push line, but a P overall...carry any weight, or meaningless?

I'm IPZ this year and just got my prf back with a P.  Loads of combat time, few DGs (though honestly they're from flying programs and not school, so I cynically think they carry less weight), few lower level awards, and small, but consistent strats.  I fully expect to get passed over. 

You have the number to that truck driving school we saw on tv, Truck Masters I think it was?  I might need that.

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15 minutes ago, MDDieselPilot said:

What's the current thought on having "Def Promote" in the push line, but a P overall...carry any weight, or meaningless?

I'm IPZ this year and just got my prf back with a P.  Loads of combat time, few DGs (though honestly they're from flying programs and not school, so I cynically think they carry less weight), few lower level awards, and small, but consistent strats.  I fully expect to get passed over. 

You have the number to that truck driving school we saw on tv, Truck Masters I think it was?  I might need that.

IPZ for O-5?  DG will carry weight. “Definitely promote” in the push line without a DP checked means P.  Not as good as “if I had one more DP to give...” and probably means bottom 50% of promotable officers in your Wing. 

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Skitzo you’ll make O-5.  If for no other reason simply because you used the term “catagory 1b level strat” which I’m not sure what it is, but sounds like something O-5s should know.  
Seriously though, you’ll be fine.  What you’re describing sounds like what an average board member puts in the “yes” pile.... assuming no derogatory info.


Sorry, it’s tier 1, 1a, 1b or something like that.

Basically the order of strength of strats. #1 Major is better than #1/120 as FGO Of the Universe. #1/53 ADOs etc.

Standard command push... SDE, JCS then Sq/CC
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12 hours ago, xaarman said:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/a-call-for-senior-officer-reform-in-the-air-force-an-insiders-perspective/

 

Any O-6s or HPOs care to weigh in on the above? Obviously I left well before the level of discussion in the article, but is the O-6 exodus as bad as he makes it out to be? I knew higher ranks were Political (as is being an Officer in general) but he makes it sound like it's more tribal than a country club in the deep south.

RUMINT//NON ATTRIBUTABLE

In my discussions with the HPO-boss whose coat tails I was riding, this was spot on.  As a Capt he worked for a "sponsored" Comm Colonel who was going places.  That Col retired as a 3-star, but still has deep ties to our (now) Cyber community.  That 3-star briefed a group of 17D's at a Friday Beer call that once he pinnned on his first star the MAJCOM/CV sat him down to ask if he was "in the game." 

My former HPO-boss retired because of a long-term family emergency. A very good dude, mentor and was doing good things about getting our culture changed.  He had guys that he made sure got high profile assignments before he bounced to cashing fat checks.  I did not work for him at the time, though we were in the same org and he looked out for me.

My actual boss during that time was not a HPO, was "asked" to retire and didn't secure a strat on my OPR despite DoD level awards.  Which...fine.  However, they wouldn't even tell him why I didn't get one or what to improve on/feedback.

Another Col I know said a lot of the same thing as the article, and also mentioned that I now needed to find another sponsor.

When I was working Wing front office stuff this is what the execs would talk about and how when someone ducked out that was planned for higher position it put a 48 month ripple through the system.  Apparently there's notional plans for all these HPO's and GO's that far out.  JQP had a good article on it a few years ago.  I'd like to note that the execs hated this whole thing and would have rather been flying.

Having sat "fake exec" a couple times and talking with the real execs, the time GO's put in to grooming a not small, but not large, number of candidates for quick moves wasn't a surprise. 

Having spoken with a lot of Col's at my last job, and seen how much more of their life they give up to wear birds, and the same w/ GO's...I'm not sure it's a deal I'd make even if given the opportunity.  I'm certain it's not a deal my wife would make.  I will grant that I've been blessed with good Col's and GO's since May of last year, so perhaps they're doing more than some douchebags would instead of pushing things down to us. 

Also, for the tribal piece.  I've heard this from every Col+ that I've talked with about promotion/assignment boards.  They called it the knife fights, and Col's came in with the short list of people they wanted to protect/push.  Sometimes they got all/some/none of their folks to where they wanted them.  That part was very political, and there were serious/loud gripes when other communities would push around for prized positions (see - 11M pilot now taking cmd of 690 NOS).  For Cyber there's also Cyber (Offense/defense), Mission Support and Combat Comm tribes, which are also distinct from Sq/Staff tribes.

 

Edited by 17D_guy
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