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5 hours ago, HossHarris said:

The shiny pennies are still getting chosen at the majors board. They just aren't releasing the results to you anymore. There's still a list. Believe it. 

There is always a list.  And there probably always will be, but when you publish the list for the world to see it triggers problematic behaviors.  Which in turn crush morale right as dudes are getting to the end of their UPT commitments.

At least now commanders have more control, and it will be easier to scratch a name off or add another name from a late bloomer.  

That said I will be very curious to see how this plays out at bases like Nellis, Edwards, Eglin, and among the cyber operators where you have a higher percentage of top performers than most wings.  It will either be a boom or bust for them.

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7 minutes ago, Magellan said:

That said I will be very curious to see how this plays out at bases like Nellis, Edwards, Eglin, and among the cyber operators where you have a higher percentage of top performers than most wings.  It will either be a boom or bust for them.

We've seen how this played out before..."You are all top performers to me, what separates you from your peers will be how much volunteer work you do.  Also, everyone is getting 90s on PT tests, you need to get a perfect score to be #1 in my secret Excel spreadsheet."

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3 hours ago, Magellan said:

That said I will be very curious to see how this plays out at bases like Nellis, Edwards, Eglin, and among the cyber operators where you have a higher percentage of top performers than most wings.  It will either be a boom or bust for them.

You forgot Maxwell.

 

(sarcasm intended)

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and among the cyber operators where you have a higher percentage of top performers than most wings.  It will either be a boom or bust for them.


For cyber? Easy. Look for the guy covered in cheetos dust, and then ask him when he last showered. Boom, that's your top performer.


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13 hours ago, HossHarris said:

The shiny pennies are still getting chosen at the majors board. They just aren't releasing the results to you anymore. There's still a list. Believe it. 

But then again....I'm an optimist ....

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17 hours ago, HossHarris said:

The shiny pennies are still getting chosen at the majors board. They just aren't releasing the results to you anymore. There's still a list. Believe it. 

There's always a list. But with three looks at school, you're going to bracket two WG/CCs. Just because you weren't on the first guy's lost doesn't mean you can't make the second guy's list.

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There's always a list. But with three looks at school, you're going to bracket two WG/CCs. Just because you weren't on the first guy's lost doesn't mean you can't make the second guy's list.


Truth.

The other issue is there is another "list" ,at least in the MAF, that resides with AMC/A1 Force Development. It's constructed using a less formal data call (email to wings) per YG. They have been IDing Capts the year before their O-4 IPZ. Not sure how common knowledge that is.
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3 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

Truth.

The other issue is there is another "list" ,at least in the MAF, that resides with AMC/A1 Force Development. It's constructed using a less formal data call (email to wings) per YG. They have been IDing Capts the year before their O-4 IPZ. Not sure how common knowledge that is.

 

This is separate from/in addition to the HPO list, I take it?

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This is separate from/in addition to the HPO list, I take it?


Seems a little early to identify 2-3 year Capts as "HPOs", so I'd assume "in addition to". But, it could all be semantics.
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2 minutes ago, Champ Kind said:

 


Seems a little early to identify 2-3 year Capts as "HPOs", so I'd assume "in addition to". But, it could all be semantics.

That's the HPO list.  The on ramps are DGs from the Academy, pilot training, SOS, MAJCOM awards and school selects from Major's list.  Problem is, if you don't hit one of those milestones, you probably won't make the super secret list, and they only remove people after the Major's board.  There isn't a process to ID late bloomers, so you'd better off with #1 for Delta, and Palace Front now! push lines.

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The AF really has a chance to do right by itself in this midst of this (abrupt) change by clearly articulating to young officers right out the gate, and updates as the progress, the benchmarks that will be required to "on-ramp" and the time milestones associated with them rather than having guys "figure it out" along the way.  

 

If I was an '08 guy on the fence, the timing of this change would probably be a tick mark in the A-word column, but I respect CSAF's motives to get this change enacted quickly rather than continuing to admire the problem.  All that to say, it's laughable that it's taking at least another week to effectively delete a column of data for a spreadsheet, come up with some talking points on a subject that's been discussed since at least Jan, and release.  Great intent from CSAF, typical lackluster bureaucratic execution from the staff.  

Edited by Champ Kind
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As an 08er at EDW, this is exactly what I'm curious about!  Lots of solid people here in my year group who almost certainly would have been school selects.  Now are we all competing with each other for a couple slots each year?  Just wish someone could let us know the rules of the game up front...tumblr_oebrmtfItQ1rl2k7fo1_500.gif

Edited by skosh
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19 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

For cyber? Easy. Look for the guy covered in cheetos dust, and then ask him when he last showered. Boom, that's your top performer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

17 minutes ago, skosh said:

As an 08er at EDW, this is exactly what I'm curious about!  Lots of solid people here in my year group who almost certainly would have been school selects.  Now are we all competing with each other for a couple slots each year?  Just wish someone could let us know the rules of the game up front...tumblr_oebrmtfItQ1rl2k7fo1_500.gif

Cheetos and War Games in a single thread?  You guys finally get us!

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16 hours ago, skosh said:

As an 08er at EDW, this is exactly what I'm curious about!  Lots of solid people here in my year group who almost certainly would have been school selects.  Now are we all competing with each other for a couple slots each year?  Just wish someone could let us know the rules of the game up front...tumblr_oebrmtfItQ1rl2k7fo1_500.gif

08 guy too. It would appear on the outside (without any further words on this matter other than an article) that the AF is taking the school slots that used to be awarded to the top ~15% or so of each year group promo board and adding them to the pot for the 1st-3rd looks. Last year I think there were around 350 school selects off the board. So wing commanders "should" be pushing more people for school on their looks. Now whether they are selected is a whole different argument and problem. What does this mean for the 08' year group I'm not sure. I could see this going two ways though. Wing/CC's could take advantage of this and push more 3rd look guys with the hope of getting them school or on the flip side push the top candidates regardless of look number or a combo of both. 

Edited by tkc10chief
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93.5 ish percent promotion rate for IPZ

 

  15% of APZ rate

Wow. In the zone is up by almost a percent and Above is down by around 4%.

 

Where did you get the stats from?

 

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Friends at other bases have the list now. Been a fun 10 years and no regrets, but definitely looking forward to not doing another 10 years. 

Leadership is currently sticking with their no notifications until the 18th timeline, so it's still unofficial, and no words on continuation.

 

 

Edited by xaarman
less smarmy
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On 7/8/2017 at 10:57 PM, LookieRookie said:

No more schools selects on O-4 boards, everyone competes separately. Getting that approved is  what's taking so long for release.

Call me cynical, but I think this change is just an attempt to dangle the carrot longer....instead of knowing at 10 years you're not going to school, now you won't know until 13, where you might be more willing to stick it out to 20.

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More flexibility could mean more opportunities for balance/corrections in the force (late bloomers)...or over-extending (i.e. delaying decisions or delaying informing members) like a madman could cause falling/failing.

Just-in-time IDE...new buzzword? (JITI) Guess it's already taken....

Either way it's retention of information/power and therefore mother blue is holding her cards closer for longer. That can't be a good thing overall for individuals, but that's good for the gander.

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1 hour ago, Bowser36 said:

Call me cynical, but I think this change is just an attempt to dangle the carrot longer....instead of knowing at 10 years you're not going to school, now you won't know until 13, where you might be more willing to stick it out to 20.

I think this is a valid point. And you should be skeptical after the terrible track record the USAF has displayed re: personnel decisions over the last ten years. If you are not continually skeptical about bureaucracy, you're a babe in the woods. 

Had the retirement system NOT changed, I'd say that's exactly what this is, disguised as a QOL/Service improvement... which, true, arguably it is.

But don't kid yourselves. The USAF doesn't give a crap about your QOL. There is little difference between this and the change to a ten year post-UPT commitment that happened back in the day - both are designed to get you to the next hook, over the next hump so they keep you till retirement age - or now since we have a new retirement system, keep you through the 'thin years' where dudes bail due to pending staff and non-jet-fying assignments until it's time to do something else.

I will say this - if you are lucky, they send you back, but you're never as good as you were when you were a Captain with a star on your wings. At least Im not... 

Cheers,

Chuck

 

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From a myPers FAQ sent to our OG today regarding the recent DE selection changes:

Question:  What is the expectation for when officers should complete IDE or SDE by distance learning?

Answer:  Officers should consult with their commander, SR, or mentor on the timing of completing DE.  Additionally, they should seek feedback on their competitiveness to receive a SR nomination to attend in residence. If advised to complete DE via distance learning, then officers should complete it at a time when it is best for them but IDE should be completed before the primary promotion board to LTC and SDE should be completed before the primary promotion board to COL.

 

I like the fact that we're getting rid of school selects during promotion boards, but it sounds like practice bleeding is back with a vengeance!  2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Edited by Runr6730
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