dream big Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 hours ago, 08Dawg said: I heard through the grapevine, indirectly from AFPC, that it might be next week...not understanding what takes so long about the process, and why the projected release date was pushed back. How long does it really take to validate board results? OSD and congress have to sign off on it I'm pretty sure. Takes time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 OSD and congress have to sign off on it I'm pretty sure. Takes time! According to MyPers Congress doesn't get it until after the public release date. Deputy SecDef is the approval authority. Not sure what is taking so long. Consensus at my base from leadership is that AFPC has it back from OSD but are sitting on it due to being busy with the Hawk board and other things.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Mypers updated... still no release date...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkc10chief Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 At this point I don't expect to hear anything until July 5th or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 35 minutes ago, Swizzle said: Heard list needs to come out before 5 July or people could derive from other releases if they were or weren't selected...that and DTs will start meeting after the 4th, right? I'm sure they'd like to publicly know and have the people know. Break, break... Decisions are being made apparently soon about PRF changes, OPR changes, stratification AFI guidance, no more DE select status, Officer SCODs, and new AFIs. RUMINT, but the last I heard from a guy who did the whole one-on-one phone consultation with AFPC after the last board was: 1. They're going to mask year groups going forward. Essentially, once you meet your IPZ board, you'll continue to be treated at IPZ until you get out. 2. One line PRFs, forcing the boards to actually look at your whole record. 3. Quarterly awards were apparently a discriminator on the last LtCol board. Plan accordingly if you want to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 How does #1 work with DOPMA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve C Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 19 minutes ago, pawnman said: 1. They're going to mask year groups going forward. Essentially, once you meet your IPZ board, you'll continue to be treated at IPZ until you get out. Masked... other than the 25 Maj OPRs in your record. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Duck said: Mypers updated... still no release date... Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums At least they updated it from Late Jun - Mid July to Early - Mid July! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 How does #1 work with DOPMA?It would mean that each continuation board will essentially be a RIF board to make room for the guys on the new promotion list. DOPMA doesn't care about year groups, just total number in each grade. The only way I see this working is if there are quotas on AFSCs promoted to ensure a healthy balance, especially given the pilot shortage (does the Air Force no good if only mission support guys are promoted, or if no cyber/space guys are promoted, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Swizzle, how could people find out other ways after July 5th?Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Steve C said: Masked... other than the 25 Maj OPRs in your record. Great... so now passed over folks will have multiple OPRs with no strats on top because they were cast aside after getting passed over. So.... not everyone will reallllly be treated like they are all IPZ... so.... nothing changes. Edited July 1, 2017 by Chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 9 hours ago, jazzdude said: It would mean that each continuation board will essentially be a RIF board to make room for the guys on the new promotion list. DOPMA doesn't care about year groups, just total number in each grade. The only way I see this working is if there are quotas on AFSCs promoted to ensure a healthy balance, especially given the pilot shortage (does the Air Force no good if only mission support guys are promoted, or if no cyber/space guys are promoted, etc) What do you mean a RIF board? RIF everyone at 20 years type of thing? Or RIF based on something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 What do you mean a RIF board? RIF everyone at 20 years type of thing? Or RIF based on something else?I don't follow this either. Dopma in 1980 drives up or out, not the AF. Continuation/non-voluntary separation is not chosen at the promotion board but actually a separate (even though they run back to back and w/the same members I believe) Continuation board which decides who to offer continuation to based on SECAF guidance and desired end strength numbers. By masking IPZ/APZ all that really changes is passed over people won't be discriminated against at the board. Twice passed over = continuation or non continuation. Once someone accepts continuation they would still meet promotion boards APZ (masked) but not continuation boards since they have already been continued to 20/24, etc. I am pretty sure this is how this would work based on digging through the stupid promotion AFI. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Continuation offered is a maximum, not a minimum. Just because they offer continuation to 20 doesn't mean they can't decide to separate you earlier by changing the continuation criteria and reboarding your record for continuation again based on needs of the air force. If you are authorized X majors, you have to have a process to get rid of the excess majors (either through promotion, separation, or retirement). Up or out was one way to force separation of people to keep the end strength for the grade where it needed to be. The continuation board would be the logical place to assess which officers should be separated to maintain end strength, as the records are there for consideration already. Welcome to the hunger games.Plus, IPZ/APZ has been masked on the last few majors boards already, but board members can tell if you are APZ (count OPRs, look at dates, etc). Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Continuation offered is a maximum, not a minimum. Just because they offer continuation to 20 doesn't mean they can't decide to separate you earlier by changing the continuation criteria and reboarding your record for continuation again based on needs of the air force. If you are authorized X majors, you have to have a process to get rid of the excess majors (either through promotion, separation, or retirement). Up or out was one way to force separation of people to keep the end strength for the grade where it needed to be. The continuation board would be the logical place to assess which officers should be separated to maintain end strength, as the records are there for consideration already. Welcome to the hunger games.Plus, IPZ/APZ has been masked on the last few majors boards already, but board members can tell if you are APZ (count OPRs, look at dates, etc). Sent from my SM-T700 using TapatalkNot entirely correct. Once granted selective continuation, it takes the SECAF removing the career field from the "critical skills needs" of the Air Force before you can be involuntarily separated. It's a very safe bet that pilot is not going to be removed from that list any time soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olevelo Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Continuation offered is a maximum, not a minimum. Just because they offer continuation to 20 doesn't mean they can't decide to separate you earlier by changing the continuation criteria and reboarding your record for continuation again based on needs of the air force. If you are authorized X majors, you have to have a process to get rid of the excess majors (either through promotion, separation, or retirement). Up or out was one way to force separation of people to keep the end strength for the grade where it needed to be. The continuation board would be the logical place to assess which officers should be separated to maintain end strength, as the records are there for consideration already. Welcome to the hunger games.Plus, IPZ/APZ has been masked on the last few majors boards already, but board members can tell if you are APZ (count OPRs, look at dates, etc). Sent from my SM-T700 using TapatalkUmm, no. They can offer a year-to-year continuation, but it's very rare that they do. If they offer 20/24, you are guaranteed to that unless there's some other serious issue that causes an involuntary separation. As for the masking, it's really up to the individual board member if they pay attention. My SR told me last week that he recently sat on a board, and personally, he didn't look at a single date or pay attention to anything that would indicating I/APZ, and that was the direction given to them. He said the APZ's did pretty well on that board (couldn't tell me what board it was). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Not entirely correct. Once granted selective continuation, it takes the SECAF removing the career field from the "critical skills needs" of the Air Force before you can be involuntarily separated. It's a very safe bet that 11F is not going to be removed from that list any time soon. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFixed it for you.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/03/the-air-force-fumbles-a-post-mortem-on-the-recent-promotion-board-for-lt-colonels/ Just choose reader view if the site wants you to register. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 44 minutes ago, matmacwc said: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/03/the-air-force-fumbles-a-post-mortem-on-the-recent-promotion-board-for-lt-colonels/ Just choose reader view if the site wants you to register. Hey I know the author! Super smart Air Force Captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/07/03/the-air-force-fumbles-a-post-mortem-on-the-recent-promotion-board-for-lt-colonels/ Just choose reader view if the site wants you to register.Holy sh!tballs. If there hasn't been a good argument made in the past for breaking us out of the LAF for promotion, this guy just made one.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icohftb Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said: Holy sh!tballs. If there hasn't been a good argument made in the past for breaking us out of the LAF for promotion, this guy just made one. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Guessing AFPC will ensure he gets passed over... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 3 hours ago, icohftb said: Guessing AFPC will ensure he gets passed over... He's an 08 guy...too late lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Fantastic article, well thought out and supported by facts. It will therefore be dismissed out of hand by out General Officers, because it's "not how they did it." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellan Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Mike is a legit brain and able to call a spade a spade in public journal forums better than anyone I know. That said I just wished he had pulled the tanker/airlift bros into the fray with the representation they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Excellent article - succinctly and clearly described the intersection of admin process worship with the quiet corruption of clique Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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