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Promotion and PRF Information


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9 hours ago, olevelo said:

It pops up under the name of the board. The O-5 records showed up maybe 3/4 of the way between board start and result release.

Break / Break

Does anyone have the stats broken out by shredout, specifically for 12X?


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I can tell you that 12B for B-52 was 56%, for B-1 47%.  Overall 12X was 61%.  I've just seen the stats from the FB page our functional started, no idea about the other 12X fields.

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13 hours ago, SurelySerious said:


Yet again more evidence promotions should be separated by AFSC types.

I've got to believe that they take into account floors and ceilings in the promotion board, even if they don't publish it.  If there are 200 rated Lt Col jobs they have to fill, and 800 non-rated ones, then surely they make sure that the cut line includes something greater than 200 rated guy.  Can anyone speak to that?

Then, follow on question:  If you were the rated guy who isn't going to get picked up for rated squadron command, and further advancement means you will probably command a recruiting squadron somewhere or sit on staff the rest of your career, then do you still want to be promoted?

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11 hours ago, budderbar said:

When does your "as met" record pop up on PRDA?  Does it actually say "as met"?  I just had a folder pop up today labeled "P0417B" on PRDA and was wondering if that was my as met record for my Majors board.

Yes.  The P0517A folders showed up three weeks or so before release.

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35 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I've got to believe that they take into account floors and ceilings in the promotion board, even if they don't publish it.  If there are 200 rated Lt Col jobs they have to fill, and 800 non-rated ones, then surely they make sure that the cut line includes something greater than 200 rated guy.  Can anyone speak to that?

Then, follow on question:  If you were the rated guy who isn't going to get picked up for rated squadron command, and further advancement means you will probably command a recruiting squadron somewhere or sit on staff the rest of your career, then do you still want to be promoted?

The vast majority of rated O-5s not picked up for command are not going to staff.  For example, there's a reason why PIT is full of O-5 non-commanders...

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22 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

The vast majority of rated O-5s not picked up for command are not going to staff.  For example, there's a reason why PIT is full of O-5 non-commanders...

And there's that problem that DOPMA creates:  if you want to keep people in, you have to promote them.  But, militarily speaking, O-5s shouldn't be instructing future IPs...they should be providing their experience on a staff so that everything from personnel policy to logistics to operations don't continue to get screwed up.  But, your most experienced fliers are Lt Cols, so you have to use their experience as rated instructors instead of in a staff billet to take advantage of their operational knowledge to make the Air Force better.  So, you put some non-rated guy (like me) in there who has no idea how to manage rated manpower, or how to plan an air campaign, and you get what we currently have.

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Maybe I'm just trying to rationalize here but generally, in the RPA world, passed over O-4s become perma line flying IP/EP/Top 3 with generally fewer additional duties.  To me it seems pretty close to the professional pilot path a lot of us have been longing for.  While I will greatly miss the chance to command my own squadron, I for one look forward to not having to play the Air Force's "you should do X if you eventually want to have a chance at doing Y" games anymore.

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Maybe I'm just trying to rationalize here but generally, in the RPA world, passed over O-4s become perma line flying IP/EP/Top 3 with generally fewer additional duties.  To me it seems pretty close to the professional pilot path a lot of us have been longing for.  While I will greatly miss the chance to command my own squadron, I for one look forward to not having to play the Air Force's "you should do X if you eventually want to have a chance at doing Y" games anymore.

At least you have the additional 365s to look forward to!


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Duck,  

   What's your service commitment if you just get promoted normally...

  the two boards are close this year that realistically you could get passed over 2x as early as March of 2018...   

   but being that they are continuing everyone, is there still something in the regs that will relieve you of your ADSC??

Edited by bennynova
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If all goes according to plan and I am done by March 2018, it will delete 2 years and 2 months off my ADSC. I am expecting continuation, but as long as they don't change the up or out law I can deny continuation and separate NLT 6 months from notification. So barring stop loss or a change in title 10...


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17 hours ago, olevelo said:

It pops up under the name of the board. The O-5 records showed up maybe 3/4 of the way between board start and result release.

Break / Break

Does anyone have the stats broken out by shredout, specifically for 12X?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

FB_IMG_1495829947574.jpg

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8 hours ago, Weezer said:

I've got to believe that they take into account floors and ceilings in the promotion board, even if they don't publish it.  If there are 200 rated Lt Col jobs they have to fill, and 800 non-rated ones, then surely they make sure that the cut line includes something greater than 200 rated guy.  Can anyone speak to that?

Then, follow on question:  If you were the rated guy who isn't going to get picked up for rated squadron command, and further advancement means you will probably command a recruiting squadron somewhere or sit on staff the rest of your career, then do you still want to be promoted?

Found it:  from AFI 36-2501 

2.12.3. Information or guidelines on the needs of the Air Force for officers with particular skills (if necessary), including the need for a minimum or maximum number of officers with particular skills in a competitive category. Information or guidelines on officers with particular skills must be furnished to the board as part of the written instructions provided to the board at the time the board is convened. 

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4 hours ago, Weezer said:

You really don't see how that would backfire?

I do worry about this. I don't see separate boards helping the situation.  Really, the AF just needs to promote all pilots, unless an individual has royally F'ed something up.  Young CGOs in my community are seeing non-operators outperforming 11X/12X types.  It's just another reason to get out ASAP. Dudes don't trust the AF to reward them for their choice to stay. 

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1 hour ago, hatedont said:

What does ACSC measure? 

Persistence in queep.  How many times you're willing repeat a quiz or activity that adds nothing to the mission, but advances your career.

*correspondence

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10 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Your ability to write. That's all it measures.

Not even.  I wrote my papers at a level that matched my freshman year of college and passed with flying colors.

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Intellectual exercise.  Please take the question as that and not sport b1tching against zipper-suited sun gods:

Lots of complaints since the results of the last board(s) released (and even more since Air Force time began).  Comments about "saving the top 15% of a commander's strats for pilots" or the like abound.  I do not for a minute defend how Big Blue does promotions (trust me, I have my own war story that absolutely no one but me cares about anyway), but if you are going to complain, then at least spend a few minutes on a way to fix it (that will never be considered.  The leviathan likes what it does since what it does got those in power there in the first place.)

A few comparison have been made about MX guys and other support fields leading airmen while highly-qualified pilots are doing the mission.  I agree, but think bigger.

The ops personnel in the Air Force are, largely, technicians.  Highly, and expensively, trained, but still technicians.  Even AC's of big jets run a very small fire-team equivalent.  Again, stay with me.  Not at all blowing off the absolute library of information that every pilot has to know, the amount of buffoonery he/she has to overcome in order to accomplish the mission, etc, etc, etc.

But the actual operating and employing the equipment - jet, missile capsule, computer keyboard, satellite keyboard - is the job of a technician.  Obviously, not including the CC or DO of a unit (but USAF does a piss poor job of getting those people practice at the junior ranks so a good one is more a matter of luck than training/growth).

IF, again, IF the purpose of a promotion board is to reward and encourage the growth of future leaders, then doesn't the technician enter the fight at a disadvantage?  Leave aside the PME and other square-fills, but the currency here seems to be "being good in the jet."  Which I don't disagree with. 

Uncle spent a helluva lot of money on you, and you expended a helluva lot of sweat to earn the wings, then keep them and be awesome (hopefully) at employing the jet.  He opened his wallet to make you a world-class technician, in my opinion.  He's hoping that you'll figure out on your own how to be a good leader.  Not a great investment strategy in my mind since if you don't, Big Blue will get rid of you.

So if the board is looking at leadership, then Capt Snuffy leading a flight of 200 would seem to have an advantage over Capt Bag O' who, even though a Patch and a mission commander, might lead a flight of 10 at the squadron.  Apples to razor blades comparison regarding level of difficulty in the warfighting, but technical, aspect.  But the amount of asspain in dealing with 200 airmen does equate in time and frustration for that captain as it does for the jet-jockey captain who is held back by the shoe-world.

As an aside, and one that won't gather much agreement, the proposal to auto-give the top strats to rated over support does seem to be against basic fairness.   As an institution, the Air Force already does that, at least so far, with the numbers of support GOs compared to the numbers of rated GOs.  We are the Air Force, after all, so the big chief should be a rated guy.  But the mantra of a rated guy running AFPC and doing a better job just because he's rated seems a little unionized to me (he wouldn't do a worse job, very much agreed!).  But if Capt Snuffy sees he has no chance of a successful career simply because of his job, then he, like you will punch and take his talent and skills where he can advance.

The difference between him and you, largely and a huge generalization, is the amount of money Big Blue spent on you.  And in today's environment, you have some golden opportunities which I wish you well and hope you go for it.  But if he leaves, Big Blue has to spend its resources on finding his replacement as well.  Much cheaper to do so, admittedly, but a few hundred here, a few hundred there, and pretty soon it's some real money.

One proposal has been the promote by AFSC.  How long until the b1tching about 11Fs far out-promoting 11Rs?  Or pick your shred-out to complain about. 

My thinking runs somewhere along the lines of making a dual-tracked commissioned and call it whatever you want, but for my purposes, warrant officer program.  Similar in concept to Army rotary wing, but not run the same.  You still have to grow future WG/CCs, etc, but you make the officer pilot a leader at a much younger age.  Put MX back into a squadron and have Capt Bag O' be a department head (er, sts) like the Navy does.  True, he won't likely be your Night 1, #1 guy, but there is no reason he couldn't be #3 or the second -4-ship lead.  You also reduce the need for the MX officers.  Meanwhile, your Warrants are the tactical technicians that you all seem to strive for. 

BTW, the pay for these Warrants would be a very special duty pay like ACP but much larger.  Fly and you get a lot of money but don't have the BS PME and other squares that Big Blue demands.  But you have to fly to get it. 

 

Soooo many holes in this way too long post to identify, but the bottom line is the Air Force says it promotes based on past performance, including leadership and on the expectation that you will continue to perform and lead, with more emphasis on the latter as you progress in rank.  A flyer not in a command position would seem to be defensive at the board merge.

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The one hole in your long post is that without the pilot/flying/operations side of the Air Force, there is no Air Force ....regardless of how good capt snuffy is at leading his 200 CE troops or running an mpf. 

If there's no tip of the spear left, then all you have is a shaft. 

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

  I wrote my papers at a level that matched my freshman year of college and passed with flying colors.

I assume by correspondence?  Most folks found it takes more effort to write well in residence.  I agree with AMF: in res ACSC measures your abilty to write.  Correspondence is worthless except as proving you care enough to suffer through it.

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