Promotion and PRF Information

[icohftb]

The O5 schedule has 140 in January. Also seems higher than average... at that rate they will have gone thru the list by September.

[Snooter]

Pretty darn good...

[BADFNZ]

10 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

So the next board finishes in early April, that means those guys could start pinning on within a month or two of being notified of promotion.


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'08 YG board starts the last week of Feb.  Based on this year's board, results should be released by May-June and dudes will start pinning on by Sept.

[MooseAg03]

'08 YG board starts the last week of Feb.  Based on this year's board, results should be released by May-June and dudes will start pinning on by Sept.

That's right, I think the board concluded March 10 or something. Have guys pinned on that fast at anytime in the past, or is this unprecedented because of dudes leaving?


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[Duck]

'08 YG board starts the last week of Feb.  Based on this year's board, results should be released by May-June and dudes will start pinning on by Sept.

I thought it was end of March? Did they move it up?


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[bennynova]

I think it's a mix of people leaving early and afpc delaying boards for 9 months back in 2013

[Duck]

What's the DP allocation rate for Major? 70% or 75%?


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[Whisky]

On 12/6/2016 at 10:22 PM, Duck said:

What's the DP allocation rate for Major? 70% or 75%?


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I'm pretty sure it's 70%

[Duck]

I think I understand the way they score PRFs at the board, but what about people who write letters? I got a P on my PRF (score on the WG/CC hating me!) but my record is pretty good. Lots of #1s and 2s in Sq and Grp (small grp about 32-36 CGOs). How do boards look at Do Not Promote letters when the record is pretty strong? My plan is to mention that my father in law was just diagnosed with brain cancer and nasal cancer and my mother in law is handicapped and cannot take care of him. I would try a Hardship Sep, but like I said my Wing/CC hates me and would not support.


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[HeloDude]

7 hours ago, Duck said:

I think I understand the way they score PRFs at the board, but what about people who write letters? I got a P on my PRF (score on the WG/CC hating me!) but my record is pretty good. Lots of #1s and 2s in Sq and Grp (small grp about 32-36 CGOs). How do boards look at Do Not Promote letters when the record is pretty strong? My plan is to mention that my father in law was just diagnosed with brain cancer and nasal cancer and my mother in law is handicapped and cannot take care of him. I would try a Hardship Sep, but like I said my Wing/CC hates me and would not support.


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Why do you not want to get promoted to Major when you're just going to be offered continuation to 20 next year?  Honest question...

[Duck]

Why do you not want to get promoted to Major when you're just going to be offered continuation to 20 next year?  Honest question...

Because I can turn down continuation, separate early from my UPT ADSC, move to help my parents and in-laws and join the local ANG unit.


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[ThreeHoler]

Because I can turn down continuation, separate early from my UPT ADSC, move to help my parents and in-laws and join the local ANG unit.


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Don't they have the option to keep you in until your UPT commitment is up even if you decline continuation?

[FlyinGrunt]

No.  If you decline continuation, the twice-passed-over DOPMA rule trumps all, and you gotta get out NLT 6 months after the board's release date.

[xaarman]

DOPMA - Defense Officer Personnel Management Act is a law that manages Officer promotions. It mandates that joint experience be given promotion preference, the up or out system, career milestones, and several other areas that affect our day to day life.

The cynic in me knows that all the talk about pilot shortage, dual tracks, less staff positions, etc etc will not change until Congress modifies/repeals/adjusts DOPMA. Sec Gates through Sec Carter have tried making adjustments, but get constant kick back from the Pentagon. Personal opinion, it is one of the few ways to "fire" officers and is the system that promoted the General Officers we have today.

DOPMA does mandate that if continuation is declined, an officer will be separated NLT 6 months from notice of non selection. Our AFIs match this and say a DOS can be moved up earlier as well.

It's kind of a back door way out of an ADSC early, at the cost of closing some doors. To go to the USAFR or ANG, it takes a bit more leg work (waiver) but is doable (pendulum swings.) Someone who has gone through the process can probably speak more intelligently to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Officer_Personnel_Management_Act

http://dopma-ropma.rand.org/index.html

Hope this helps! 

 

 

[Duck]

Thanks man! I'm wondering how the board deals with these Do Not Promote letters. So far everyone I know who got a P and wrote a letter was passed over, but I don't know how solid their records were.


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[LookieRookie]

3 hours ago, xaarman said:

 

It's kind of a back door way out of an ADSC early, at the cost of closing some doors. To go to the USAFR or ANG, it takes a bit more leg work (waiver) but is doable (pendulum swings.) Someone who has gone through the process can probably speak more intelligently to it.

AFRC wise a Snowflake (Custom E-SSS with a bunch of tabs) is routed in TMT from the wing to the NAF to AFRC/A1 for approval. It's not particularly "hard," but time consuming.

Edited December 20, 2016 by LookieRookie

[HeloDude]

13 hours ago, Duck said:

Because I can turn down continuation, separate early from my UPT ADSC, move to help my parents and in-laws and join the local ANG unit.


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I totally understand and appreciate your reasons for wanting to get out early...I just don't see it happening in today's environment.  But I do wish you the best of luck.

[joe1234]

The aforementioned method of getting out early absolutely works. And continuation requires a positive, written response from the member. In other words, once twice passed over, only the non-selectee can stop the separation process by agreeing to continuation.

Oh and you also get invol sep benefits, other than the pay. So, TAMP, 2 years of commissary/BX access, 3 weeks PTDY, the right to file for unemployment, etc.

[Learjetter]

20 hours ago, Duck said:

Thanks man! I'm wondering how the board deals with these Do Not Promote letters. So far everyone I know who got a P and wrote a letter was passed over, but I don't know how solid their records were.


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Every board is different..every board member has personal opinions on the subject...but I'll say this:  the board is charged with evaluating the records of a couple thousand officers.  The personal opinions of the member aren't really relevant to the "quality" of the record.  I didn't give much weight to letters that begged for promotion in the face of gross buffoonery in a record...and I didn't give much weight to letters begging for non-promotion either.

IIRC there was something in the rules/regs/policy letters/AFPC message/Promotion Board announcement or message/SECAF board instructions/AFPC people processing guides (or somewhere) about officers who write DNP me letters NOT being eligible for invol sep pay and invol sep benefits...unknown if that's still the case.  

Use caution when employing tactics such as these...

[pcola]

I didn't give much weight to letters that begged for promotion in the face of gross buffoonery in a record...and I didn't give much weight to letters begging for non-promotion either.

The first part I can understand...but why on earth would you not give much weight to a do not promote me letter? I would think that a demonstrated unwillingness to perform at the next higher grade would be about the clearest indication of inability to perform at the next higher grade that you could hope for. That's like refusing to accept someone's SIE from UPT; wouldn't happen because it's ridiculous. If a person is telling you that they do not want something, you shouldn't try to force them to take it. Learned that little gem in SAPR training.


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[Learjetter]

I saw it more as an equality issue...if I wasn't going to lend much credence to "please promote me" letters, then I wanted to give equal weight to ""DNP" me letters...in other words--give all letters to the board equal weight.   Comparing it to an SIE from UPT is like apples to Tuesday, though.  A promotion board is not charged to find the best records "of the willing"...but is charged to put the records in order, best to last.  IMHBAO, a member's opinion/desire for promotion isn't very relevant to how well the RECORD stacks up against other RECORDS--even for the purposes of promotion. For DNP me letter writers, if it were possible, I suppose it would be OK to specifically request your record NOT compete for promotion at all.  But that's not how our system works.  Maybe it should--that WOULD ensure we're only looking at the willing.

To me the officer's performance, as recorded in OPRS/DECS/PRF (in that order) are much more relevant to determining the "quality" of the record.  Also, specific SECAF instructions to the board  play into how the letters are treated....and how individual officer traits are treated.

There are never very many letters to the board.  This isn't a widespread issue, nor a big deal for 99+% of officers meeting a board.  It's a HUGE deal to each letter-writer, though...and every letter was read (some several times, because they were tragic, or long, or just interesting examples of the varied human condition)...and I gave every letter I read equal weight in calculating the score of the record.  So they weren't disregarded.  Just not highly regarded.

I don't recall being surprised that someone with a "DNP me" letter made the promotion list.  If it happened, then that officer still has options:  take it or not. Circumstances change.  People change their minds...some who are promoted won't accept, or will wait until pin-on day to reject it.  Some who thought they WOULD be promoted won't be, and will make choices based on that.  Some 5APZ dude with a P who thought promotion was never gonna happen gets the nod and has to make new choices based on that info. Some "DNP me" letter writers may change their minds in the months between letter and list release and pin-on. What we should NOT do (institutionally, as a SERVICE) is accept a "lesser" officer for promotion in lieu of a "better" one just because the "better" one doesn't want promotion, or because the "lesser" one made a really good argument for promotion in a letter.  We should promote neither.  And I'm pretty sure that's what happens in the vast majority of the incredibly small number of letter-writer cases.

[Jaded]

I can't imagine anyone less qualified than a person who does not want to be in the service anymore. Promoting bitter officers just creates bitter squadrons.

[Learjetter]

Hmmm. Ok then! Any officer, the instant that officer becomes "bitter" and doesn't want to be in the service anymore, gets a pass and released immediately? Or at the next promotion board? Should we wait two boards? How about promotion from 2LT to 1LT...refuse that and out you go?

[xaarman]

To follow up, if the board offers the Officer continuation and the Officer turns it down, he is not given invol separation pay. Same with writing a DNP me letter, no invol sep pay given.

AFI 36-2501 

2.10.3. Title 10, U.S.C., Section 617, Reports of Selection Boards requires that the board shall include in its report the name of any officer the board did not recommend for promotion who requested not to be promoted or otherwise caused nonselection through written communication to the board.

2.10.3.2. An officer who causes his/her non-selection through communication to a selection board is not entitled to involuntary separation pay.

 

Re: writing letters and still getting promoted - I see Learjetter's side of the story, and while I don't agree with the direction, it's understandable. Realize board members aren't the ones to get upset at, blame SECAF, HAF/A1, and AFPC guidance.

Edited December 21, 2016 by xaarman

[Duck]

Thanks guys! Good discussion. Really hoping in my case the board helps my family out and I can continue my career a long time in the ANG.


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