Guardian Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Haha. Zing. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Well, that's fucking lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 The bystanders are always easily disappointed instead of weighing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoo Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I was indeed disappointed, hence my "weigh in": 1 hour ago, Spoo said: Well, that's fucking lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticGator Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 (edited) On February 29, 2016 at 2:56 PM, Homestar said: DP will be near 100%, P will be around 50%. There is your most important marker. So back to the discussion. What is the biggest discriminator amongst P's assuming boxes checked? The SR push line? Statements like "if I had one more DP" or "my DP if I had one?" Do SR's really differentiate amongst the P's? Overall strength of record? Edited March 3, 2016 by ArcticGator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I would like to know that too. Also did everyone twice passed over to Major get offered continuation? The one guy in my Wing did, so no separation pay for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 DP will be near 100%, P will be around 50%. There is your most important marker. So back to the discussion. What is the biggest discriminator amongst P's assuming boxes checked? The SR push line? Statements like "if I had one more DP" or "my DP if I had one?" Do SR's really differentiate amongst the P's? Overall strength of record? Some O-5 bottom line discriminators: Does it have a push for Sq/CC, Sq/DO, or something else? If there are a large number of IPZ in the SR's group, is there a strat? "If I had one more DP" is generally a good thing on a P PRF unless overused by a SR...although I guess they've been cracking down on the use of "Definitely promote!" in the bottom line if it is a P. Does the overall PRF tell the story of how you performed the past X years and that you have the potential to lead at the next rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticGator Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Does the rank of the SR make any difference in the PRF? i.e. a 3 star vs a normal 0-6 WG/CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach braff Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 47 minutes ago, ArcticGator said: Does the rank of the SR make any difference in the PRF? i.e. a 3 star vs a normal 0-6 WG/CC? My take: All depends on the situation/position of the ratee & rater and the record. Two relatively equal records with a *he's a good guy" bottom line - maybe the Stars carry more weight depending on his/her position (i.e. NAF commander saying so vs. pentagon back-office 2-star saying so) - but there is an entire record to be reviewed regardless of who happens to be your SR now. Usually O-6 Wg/CCs have bigger strat pools so you can theoretically get a much better strat that way than from the 2-Star HAF/XPGESLCUEFVZ office A-Rng cubicle SR... Example - A shit-hot strat from an O-6 Wg/CC(#1,2,3/50 eligibles) is probably gonna be hotter than a #1/13 from a 3-Star... However if you're working for the star-holder in a special capacity (i.e. selected for position based on past performance) - that's gonna factor. So again - it depends...Yes - if the CSAF or COCOM/CC is personaly rating you, there is probably a reason and that is going to carry weight. But remember it's about the entire record though - so a long record of good performance is going to show regardless of the rank of SR. zb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 A DP from a 3/4-star will probably get you promoted BPZ. A DP from anyone including BQZip's mom will get you promoted IPZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 8 hours ago, ArcticGator said: Does the rank of the SR make any difference in the PRF? i.e. a 3 star vs a normal 0-6 WG/CC? Everything matters and can make the difference in a PRF. Guys who are getting promoted to O-5 with a 'P' are more likely working at a staff type job for a GO vs working at some Wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 7 hours ago, zach braff said: Usually O-6 Wg/CCs have bigger strat pools so you can theoretically get a much better strat that way than from the 2-Star HAF/XPGESLCUEFVZ office A-Rng cubicle SR... Example - A shit-hot strat from an O-6 Wg/CC(#1,2,3/50 eligibles) is probably gonna be hotter than a #1/13 from a 3-Star... However if you're working for the star-holder in a special capacity (i.e. selected for position based on past performance) - that's gonna factor. For O-5? I don't think so... Does Learjetter want to weigh in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 BTZ? I think that the job matters a bit more. Those I've know get BTZ were not in wing jobs, but rather staffs of Joint/COCOM etc. They're out getting breadth and getting strat'd by non-AF bosses. If you can impress the AF SRs and say a Marine or Navy leader, then BTZ is looking good. But for IPZ, either of those strats will likely lead to success. Again, this is just based on those I know. Those you know probably did it differently. 2 hours ago, HeloDude said: Everything matters and can make the difference in a PRF. Guys who are getting promoted to O-5 with a 'P' are more likely working at a staff type job for a GO vs working at some Wing. 2. Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learjetter Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 For O-5? I don't think so... Does Learjetter want to weigh in? I've said my piece and counted to three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticGator Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 4 hours ago, HeloDude said: Everything matters and can make the difference in a PRF. Guys who are getting promoted to O-5 with a 'P' are more likely working at a staff type job for a GO vs working at some Wing. Is this because these GOs have smaller staffs with less DP's to give and the guy with the P at staff is higher caliber than the #13/24 guy at a wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Or it's possible that you're the only Air Force guy working for the two star Marine. DP for you. And oh yeah....write your own PRF son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 8 hours ago, ArcticGator said: Is this because these GOs have smaller staffs with less DP's to give and the guy with the P at staff is higher caliber than the #13/24 guy at a wing? How many Maj's in the zone are at a wing? I don't think it's as many as you think... But to answer your question, it's because of what an IPZ O-4 does at a staff job vs what an IPZ O-4 does at a Wing. Think about it--guys at the staff are working with teams on major policy decisions, major programs (i.e. A5R for MAJCOM requirements/acquisitions), etc. These same guys are also showing that they can do things outside a typical ops unit...which is required of many O-5's. On the other hand, Majors IPZ at a Wing are typically either an ADO, in OGV, Wing plans, Safety, or (if they're one of the sharpest) the one of the two Majors working as a Wing Exec. Which resume sounds more impressive as an officer? Where would you rather get a 'P'--working in a squadron or for an OG or WG/CC or working for a GO working on large programs that touch much more than just a Wing? Now of course the board looks at your entire record, so if you have a strong record and are working at a Wing, then you could very well be just fine...in fact, you'll probably get one of the few DP's the Wing CC can give. But most of those jobs I listed above at the Wing can be (and sometimes are) filled by a senior Captain...doing the work of a senior Captain doesn't help an O-4 get promoted. This is just my $.02, and I'm sure you can find someone who disagrees/gives a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 5 hours ago, Homestar said: Or it's possible that you're the only Air Force guy working for the two star Marine. DP for you. And oh yeah....write your own PRF son! in your example it would be kind of hard to get a DP from a guy who doesn't have a DP to give...would have to get a DP from an aggregate source. But I get the joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Sauce Hoy Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Is a Senior Rater allowed to say "definitely promote" in the push line on promote PRFs? How often do they do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Is a Senior Rater allowed to say "definitely promote" in the push line on promote PRFs? How often do they do that? Yes. But they are supposed to use it judiciously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Nice. The non-DP DP. I wonder if civilian promotion records work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 9 hours ago, HeloDude said: in your example it would be kind of hard to get a DP from a guy who doesn't have a DP to give...would have to get a DP from an aggregate source. But I get the joke... How do guys working on joint staffs under non AF leadership get DPs? Does the MLR do that automatically or does the SR have to reach out to the MLR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennynova Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said: Yes. But they are supposed to use it judiciously. Happens ALL the time More than judiciously . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 in your example it would be kind of hard to get a DP from a guy who doesn't have a DP to give...would have to get a DP from an aggregate source. But I get the joke... How do guys working on joint staffs under non AF leadership get DPs? Does the MLR do that automatically or does the SR have to reach out to the MLR? They are called aggregate DPs. If a SR doesn't have enough IPZ to earn a DP outright (i.e. 1 IPZ for a 58% DP allocation) then his IPZ is combined with all the other IPZ in similar circumstances into an aggregate pool. These records are competed at the MLR for the total number of aggregate DPs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gimmeaplane Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 4 hours ago, ThreeHoler said: They are called aggregate DPs. If a SR doesn't have enough IPZ to earn a DP outright (i.e. 1 IPZ for a 58% DP allocation) then his IPZ is combined with all the other IPZ in similar circumstances into an aggregate pool. These records are competed at the MLR for the total number of aggregate DPs. Is it an accurate impression that MLR drives the SR's adherence to the rules/customs of PRF writing? My understanding is that SR credibility is a large factor in how many additional DPs they win for their people at MLR. Does it take on the feeling of an awards fight club or is it a straight review/scoring of records? Most of us will never see an MLR, and it doesn't get the same attention as the actual board, but it seems to play a big part in outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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