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Promotion and PRF Information


Guest e3racing

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Guest ThatGuy

It may be visible, but it only indicates complete or not. There is no differentiation between residence and correspondence, unless of course you got DG.

Were the training reports from SOS masked too? If not then the board can see if you went in residence or not correct?

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Were the training reports from SOS masked too? If not then the board can see if you went in residence or not correct?

And wouldn't an OPR reflect a push for in-res SOS until in-res was completed?

While we're on this "is it really masked?" kick, are they going to mask an entire duty history line and training report for dudes that go to AFIT for an in-res degree?

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And wouldn't an OPR reflect a push for in-res SOS until in-res was completed?

Or until no longer eligible. And that is when you become eligible to complete it via correspondence. The course is only 5 weeks now and they have secured the funding for the additional days required. Ultimately the CSAF has done something good here, enjoy it while it lasts.

While we're on this "is it really masked?" kick, are they going to mask an entire duty history line and training report for dudes that go to AFIT for an in-res degree?

No, they aren't.

Back to your regularly scheduled sport-bitch session.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

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Were the training reports from SOS masked too? If not then the board can see if you went in residence or not correct?

TRs for short courses (i.e., those that do not replace an OPR; I don't recall the cutoff course length) don't meet the board. Your UPT TR is part of your board package; in-res IDE and/or SDE (PCS / year-long courses) are as well. Your SOS TR is not.

EDIT: Apparently outdated info.

Edited by Jughead
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TRs for short courses (i.e., those that do not replace an OPR; I don't recall the cutoff course length) don't meet the board. Your UPT TR is part of your board package; in-res IDE and/or SDE (PCS / year-long courses) are as well. Your SOS TR is not.

Source?

I would suggest that everyone go to PRDA and open your promotion board selection folder. It shows all documents that are meeting or have met the board, including your PRF. It does include every TR and OPR. Length of course does not matter. Go see for yourself.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Edited by Herk Driver
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TRs for short courses (i.e., those that do not replace an OPR; I don't recall the cutoff course length) don't meet the board. Your UPT TR is part of your board package; in-res IDE and/or SDE (PCS / year-long courses) are as well. Your SOS TR is not.

If this is the case then how can people use information from the short courses in their PRFs which does happen? Or is this a new change?

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Source?

I would suggest that everyone go to PRDA and open your promotion board selection folder. It shows all documents that are meeting or have met the board, including your PRF. It does include every TR and OPR. Length of course does not matter. Go see for yourself.

My "source" is my own experience meeting multiple boards. Unless its changed since my O-5 board (2007)--always possible--the PRDA records show ALL your records; you have to request your records (either a review prior to the board, or an "as met" after the board) to see what is actually going / went before the board. I'd suggest checking with the promotions folks at AFPC rather than my (or Herk Driver's) understanding of how it works if it's important to you.

Doesn't the OPSB list all the reports going to the board? I think that's what made me wonder "where's my TR?" and investigate for myself.... Sounds like you're saying the OPSB is on PRDA now, which is itself a change from my day (Christ, I hate saying that!)....

EDIT: Apparently outdated info.

If this is the case then how can people use information from the short courses in their PRFs which does happen? Or is this a new change?

The report isn't "gone" or invalidated--it's still a legit, official source document (for PRFs or whatever). It just doesn't meet the board (in my experience and subject to the caveats above). Edited by Jughead
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My "source" is my own experience meeting multiple boards. Unless its changed since my O-5 board (2007)--always possible--the PRDA records show ALL your records; you have to request your records (either a review prior to the board, or an "as met" after the board) to see what is actually going / went before the board. I'd suggest checking with the promotions folks at AFPC rather than my (or Herk Driver's) understanding of how it works if it's important to you.

Doesn't the OPSB list all the reports going to the board? I think that's what made me wonder "where's my TR?" and investigate for myself....

The report isn't "gone" or invalidated--it's still a legit, official source document (for PRFs or whatever). It just doesn't meet the board (in my experience and subject to the caveats above).

Dude I appreciate what you are saying but we are talking past each other. Go to the AFPC website and you will see that AFPC no longer takes request for records reviews or As Met packages. All records are in PRDA, that is correct. But if you go look you will also see your Promotion board selection folder. This is the folder that meets or has met the board. Go check it out through AMS. How you access your promotion record all changed in the last year or so. But, all of your TRs meet the board. Go check again and you will see that this is correct. Too bad that Chuck took his post down since he can corroborate this info.

I am not asking anyone to take my word for any of this...as I said before go to PRDA, pull your promotion board selection folder and you will see what meets or has met the board. This is different from searching for all your OPRs or decs or whatever document. It is a separate folder that is the folder that meets the promotion board. This info is all available on the AFPC website. I said it in the last post and will say it again, go check for yourself.

ETA: the folder is titled by the board identifier, IIRC. (e.g. P05xxx)

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Edited by Herk Driver
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Dude I appreciate what you are saying but we are talking past each other. Go to the AFPC website and [...]

Well, therein lies the problem--I'm an ORF with no access (let alone any give-a-shit) to AFPC's myriad sites.

I withdraw. Things have evidently changed. Apologies to anyone misled by my comments.

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Well, there's no AAD info so the boards can't possibly be expected to be able to differentiate between records. Promotions for all my friends.

Still on the rack and stack excel sheet I just got from the boss. So.. not really solving anything.

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Guest ThatGuy

When they release the promotion numbers will it even say whether those who had an AAD was promoted or passed over? This year things are very interesting. I say break out the balloon animals during the promotion board.

Edited by slick999
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Too bad that Chuck took his post down since he can corroborate this info.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Yeah sorry, I dropped my post because I reread yours and we were both saying the same thing. No need to dog pile.

FWIW, the board(s) I have worked included one the old way (before the PRDA was used by the masses), and one the new. In both cases the MLR ensured the info in the PRFs jivved with the info in the reports - including TRs - and the dudes on the boards saw the corrected PRFs and the entire personnel record, including TRs. That's all I was saying.

As was sent to me in a PM (thanks by the way - I agree with what was said), true, practice bleeding was stopped by the CSAF. But it doesn't change the have/have not with school in-res. TRs will still tell the board who went an who didn't...

Chuck

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Guest ThatGuy

Dude I appreciate what you are saying but we are talking past each other. Go to the AFPC website and you will see that AFPC no longer takes request for records reviews or As Met packages. All records are in PRDA, that is correct. But if you go look you will also see your Promotion board selection folder. This is the folder that meets or has met the board. Go check it out through AMS. How you access your promotion record all changed in the last year or so. But, all of your TRs meet the board. Go check again and you will see that this is correct. Too bad that Chuck took his post down since he can corroborate this info.

I am not asking anyone to take my word for any of this...as I said before go to PRDA, pull your promotion board selection folder and you will see what meets or has met the board. This is different from searching for all your OPRs or decs or whatever document. It is a separate folder that is the folder that meets the promotion board. This info is all available on the AFPC website. I said it in the last post and will say it again, go check for yourself.

ETA: the folder is titled by the board identifier, IIRC. (e.g. P05xxx)

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Thanks for explaining to us how to view the material the board will see online. I passed this information on to a friend and he visited the PRDA on the portal like myself. Not sure why prior service medals were included but oh well. And they duplicated an air medal citation.

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Question for the folks who have served on the promotion board.

With the new computerized process of reviewing and scoring records, do you have more/enough time to review each person's documents and look for the whole person concept and job performance history? Or is still the method of DP/P piles, and then look for strats/DGs to score the Ps? The old school folks are always saying the reviewers don't have the time to review the documents in depth, DPs/strats/DGs are pretty much what they rely on to score.

Thanks.

Btw, the old mindset of box checking is alive and well in the FGO world (especially non-rated ops/support AFSCs). Until those folks are gone, I don't expect much change to the stratification process.

Edited by PanchBarnes
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Too bad the instructions that came with the in-zone notice specifically forbids senior raters from using any locally produced rack and stack sheet.

I'm not up for a board. Just noticed it. Where do I find those instructions?

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Too bad the instructions that came with the in-zone notice specifically forbids senior raters from using any locally produced rack and stack sheet

Except that there's no way to tell if a SR is using a rack-and-stack sheet. I suspect that most still are. Mine certainly is.

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Question for the folks who have served on the promotion board.

With the new computerized process of reviewing and scoring records, do you have more/enough time to review each person's documents and look for the whole person concept and job performance history? Or is still the method of DP/P piles, and then look for strats/DGs to score the Ps? The old school folks are always saying the reviewers don't have the time to review the documents in depth, DPs/strats/DGs are pretty much what they rely on to score.

Thanks.

Btw, the old mindset of box checking is alive and well in the FGO world (especially non-rated ops/support AFSCs). Until those folks are gone, I don't expect much change to the stratification process.

This isn't how it works at all...i've served as a lacky shuffling folders on the board. It's not separated into Dp/P piles at all. The 2 computer screens give you lots of time to read the records. The O6's on the board read read and read some more...it's just different HOW and WHAT they focus their reading on. Some dudes might focus on this while others that...combat hours, vs flunked out of UPT, vs DG at SOS...different folks focus differently....don't forget you have a room full of 30+ O-6s representing the entire air force - so 15% women, 8% asian, 75% line, 47 % pilot, etc etc.....if you don't get a fair shake, then it just wasn't meant to be.

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Agreed. Pointing out that SR and those below them are happy to violate direction from CSAF and SECAF.

It's a great thing to say that it's being done wrong and telling people to stop doing it wrong...that is only part of the solution though, there must be some guidance when the "right way" isn't readily apparent.

Without disagreeing with what's been posted here, but what is the solution if you can't locally convene boards or eventually rack and stack off of discretely comparable metrics?

How does a squadron level list generated by genuine meritocracy (that alone requires hundreds of hours of devoted performance review) get combined into one that can stand against a senior rater's allocation?

If a senior rater was to push guidance to align the lower level reviews, the line seemingly gets crossed on convening a board (if executed as disjointed as it would be).

Does the work product from the lower level reviews push data (highlighted ROPs, push lines, PRFs, etc.) that forms the input to the next level review until the senior rater's staff is working over the whole lot conducting a genuine performance level review that dismisses/aligns with CSAF guidance?

I've never met someone that appreciates being told something is wrong while blatantly acknowledging there isn't clearly a better way of doing it.

I don't even know what we're talking about here to be honest,

Bendy

Edited by Bender
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This isn't how it works at all...i've served as a lacky shuffling folders on the board. It's not separated into Dp/P piles at all. The 2 computer screens give you lots of time to read the records. The O6's on the board read read and read some more...it's just different HOW and WHAT they focus their reading on. Some dudes might focus on this while others that...combat hours, vs flunked out of UPT, vs DG at SOS...different folks focus differently....don't forget you have a room full of 30+ O-6s representing the entire air force - so 15% women, 8% asian, 75% line, 47 % pilot, etc etc.....if you don't get a fair shake, then it just wasn't meant to be.

Thanks for the explanation. The DP/P piles method is what is advertised to the CGOs when paper records were still around. This method is probably still being taught at SOS during the PRF exercise. Even with the computerized scoring system, SOS and some O-6s want you to believe that the reviewers don't have the time to review each package in-depth, and that most people rely on the DPs/strats/DGs in order to get thru all the packages within the allotted time.

Edited by PanchBarnes
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Thanks for the explanation. The DP/P piles method is what is advertised to the CGOs when paper records were still around. This method is probably still being taught at SOS during the PRF exercise. Even with the computerized scoring system, SOS and some O-6s want you to believe that the reviewers don't have the time to review each package in-depth, and that most people rely on the DPs/strats/DGs in order to get thru all the packages within the allotted time.

Not that it matters, but as of a few classes ago SOS does show the process how it goes now with the computer screens and all of that. I got the impression they were trying to move away from the "1 minute review" thing. I learned a good bit about how the process actually works in those lessons.

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For the Majors board, what % of people get strats in the push line? Is it a standard number or does it vary by Senior Rater? If you don't get a strat, are your chances of school select slim to none? Thanks

It's typically top 20%. This does change from Wing to Wing, but that's generally the standard. That also coincides with the typical selection for school. It's not impossible to get school as a select, but it's not likely.

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If you don't get a strat, are your chances of school select slim to none? Thanks

Correct. I'd say a realistic number is ~top 10% of eligibles coming from your SR to be realistically competitive for IDE at the board.

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