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Promotion and PRF Information


Guest e3racing

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Liquid -

Any word on whether HAF is going to let candidates go off the alternate list? I know the SOF DT only had enough selects nominated to fill the primary seats - hence all the alternates are candidates. So when inevitably spots open up, is HAF/AFPC going to allow more than one candidate to go if they're pulled off the alternate list or will those slots go to another DT that has selects on the alternate list?

Not sure, haven't seen any policy yet. Last year they only allowed our selects to fill alternate spots. At our DT we created a select only alternate list and a candidate alternate list to cover both options. There may be a few more alternate spots available next year (summer '14) because of the requirement to only nominate selects, regardless of smart timing. Even if a candidate had better timing and was more deserving, we had to nominate selects and only one candidate. HAF trying to get ahead of the bow wave of too many selects and not enough seats.

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I would like to know how a package accumulates points during a board. Do you get a point for DG..annual award..half a point for each strat.. or AAD...Flt/CC..etc?

What Noonin said.

It is up to each board member to score each record however they think it should be scored. Common technique is to start at 8.0 (average) and add or subtract based on what is in or not in the record. Remarkably little guidance is given about how to score, but there are not as many splits (disagreements in score of more than 1.5 points on a 6-10 scale between two or more members) as you would think. Boards tend to value depth, breadth, leadership, stratification, distinction (awards) and deployments. That usually means they add point or half point for or take away points from what they see as the norm. Top half is easy (DPs). Top 15% cut line (school select, BPZ) and bottom 10-15% get tricky, meaning individual board member biases and preferences can make a big difference.

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Per AMC A1, "The '05 Maj board should have an accounting date between Nov-Jan with a board date between April-May."

They also stated: "ensure you are the best aircrew member you can be (instructor), however get your AAD done and don't screw off with PME... Changes to the AAD might be coming but don't expect them to trickle down for awhile."

Nothing really new above, but to the young pups: fly your butt off, become a great instructor, and work on the rest of the stuff as it comes along to not be deemed a clown when it comes promotion time. Find a bro who can help you out that is a few years ahead of you to clear the air on all the bs.

Luck, timing and who you know are huge as we all know, but without being a great aviator, taking care of your training/records, and doing the "extra" things leadership deems important that luck, timing and who you know won't happen sometimes... But remember its about building credibility in your community in the jet first then outside the jet SECOND.

Cheers!

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Just heard the "deciding O-6" in our Agency tell us that he will be selecting those who attend SOS in residence for his upcoming board based on completion of SOS in correspondence (whatever, standard) and masters completion!!! Not for O-4 or O-5 promotion boards of even IDE... masters completion to go to effing SOS!!!!! For an O-5 board; sure... O-4 board; maybe... to go to SOS?!? Why are these incredible morons who now sit in what used to be leadership positions so hell bent on picking future Colonels and Generals when they are just LT's and young Capts?!? I give up...

:flipoff::banghead::bash::bohica:

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Just heard the "deciding O-6" in our Agency tell us that he will be selecting those who attend SOS in residence for his upcoming board based on completion of SOS in correspondence (whatever, standard) and masters completion!!! Not for O-4 or O-5 promotion boards of even IDE... masters completion to go to effing SOS!!!!! For an O-5 board; sure... O-4 board; maybe... to go to SOS?!? Why are these incredible morons who now sit in what used to be leadership positions so hell bent on picking future Colonels and Generals when they are just LT's and young Capts?!? I give up...

:flipoff::banghead::bash::bohica:

I thought one of the main reasons for the "new" SOS was to eliminate the need to do SOS online and then go do it again (also to get rid of ASBC). Additionally, I thought they were going to pretty much send everyone. Sounds like it is more of the same just a longer SOS. Nice....

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Accounting date: say that again? Next year, as in Nov 2014? Or next Fiscal Year just 3 months from now?

Fall of 2014.... that is the latest intel I received as well.

Is anyone else starting to feel like the unwanted guest who has overstayed his/her welcome? Another (legitimate) VSP would quickly solve the manning issues that drove our board 1 year to the right.

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Is anyone else starting to feel like the unwanted guest who has overstayed his/her welcome? Another (legitimate) VSP would quickly solve the manning issues that drove our board 1 year to the right.

A VSP would just result in a bunch of rejected applications from pilots (or no applications if you didn't include them)

The fundamental problem is that, in aggregate, we can't get the officers we want gone to leave. At the same time, we can't get the officers we want to keep to stay.

On the short haul, I would do a mix of a RIF and bonuses. Well, we're doing half of that. On the long haul, promotions need to be career-specific. ...but nobody asked me.

Edited by Dupe
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This has been the norm for selection boards depending upon your base. Why is this so cosmic of a concept to anyone now.

I believe our selection boards are run like a promotion board but they focus on OPRs, fitness test scores, and your CC's ranking.

It has been the norm to tell LTs that it will be a requirement to have their Masters complete to go to SOS? What Base are you at??? OPRs and CC's ranking makes sense, but selecting who goes to SOS based on who has their Masters done has absolutely zero to do with leadership or leadership potential. This moron is essentially telling every LT in our organization that their stratification and future promotion potential will be decide by whether or not they have a Masters degree before pinning on Captain. This is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force today.

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It has been the norm to tell LTs that it will be a requirement to have their Masters complete to go to SOS? What Base are you at??? OPRs and CC's ranking makes sense, but selecting who goes to SOS based on who has their Masters done has absolutely zero to do with leadership or leadership potential. This moron is essentially telling every LT in our organization that their stratification and future promotion potential will be decide by whether or not they have a Masters degree before pinning on Captain. This is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force today.

Might as well make a Masters degree a commissioning requirement. That's were the AF is heading anyway.

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This has been the norm for selection boards depending upon your base. Why is this so cosmic of a concept to anyone now.

I believe our selection boards are run like a promotion board but they focus on OPRs, fitness test scores, and your CC's ranking.

"Leaders" who don't know their people are different from a stoplight chart are douches.

Here is the deal...for a "100%" opportunity, why the fuck do we have wing selection boards?

Also, do the tards who come up with this shit realize that other bases send everyone because they have more spots than eligible people?

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If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

You can't compare the two... it isn't realistic, especially for a pilot to expect an AAD for SOS. 1 Year sitting around casual waiting to start UPT, 1 year in UPT, minimum of 1 year between Land/Water survival... RTU... PCS... Mission Ready program. So now you have a 1 Lt who knows just enough to be dangerous and through no fault of his own probably sucks at flying the jet just because he is new/little flight experience and we have these douche bag Commanders basically telling them they better not only start, but finish their AAD immediately or else?!? Not sure what the 100% SOS in residence plan is, but I can tell you that we have many more Capts in our Agency that have not been than there are in resident slots... granted there is obviously a 3 year window, but with the averages there will still be a decent amount that will not be able to go unless our slots increase.

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You can't compare the two... it isn't realistic, especially for a pilot to expect an AAD for SOS. 1 Year sitting around casual waiting to start UPT, 1 year in UPT, minimum of 1 year between Land/Water survival... RTU... PCS... Mission Ready program. So now you have a 1 Lt who knows just enough to be dangerous and through no fault of his own probably sucks at flying the jet just because he is new/little flight experience and we have these douche bag Commanders basically telling them they better not only start, but finish their AAD immediately or else?!? Not sure what the 100% SOS in residence plan is, but I can tell you that we have many more Capts in our Agency that have not been than there are in resident slots... granted there is obviously a 3 year window, but with the averages there will still be a decent amount that will not be able to go unless our slots increase.

I would like to add this can be close to a similar scenario for multiple support career-fields to depending on where they're assigned. I have many peers who pulled multiple deployments in their first 4 years, and some of those included months long "battlefield" training.

We could get into the discussion of an online degree, and then we're just talking about a NEW band-aid to a broken leadership scenario.

The fact that some bases include PT scores in rating their folks is atrocious. Why don't they just include photos so they can make sure only the individuals the exec thinks are "hot" can go.

Rating Lt's the same way you rate O4/5... way to set folks up for success.

Edited by 17D_guy
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If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

Your level of douchebaggery never ceases to amaze me.

You have got to be a troll.

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If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

Well hell, if that's the case let's just promote the people who go to SOS in-residence and eliminate PRFs for O-4 entirely. It's the same dicriminators, right? How much time, energy, and money would that save during the budget crisis?

Edited by pawnman
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Well hell, if that's the case let's just promote the people who go to SOS in-residence and eliminate PRFs for O-4 entirely. It's the same dicriminators, right? How much time, energy, and money would that save during the budget crisis?

That's essentially what we do anyway isn't it? My last OG/CC was doing his rack and stack for O-4 PRFs and he showed me his "criteria list" on his notes page. One of the notes said, "Non-Res SOS = Scumbag". He was laughing when he showed it to me, but not one of the non-res SOS types got a DP. So basically if this new douche bag O-6 in my agency now is saying no SOS in Res without an AAD completed he is basically telling these young Capts and Lts that if you don't do what he says and get your Masters now you probably won't make Maj and definitely won't make Lt Col. Again... he is basically requiring an effing Masters before pinning on Capt and deciding at that point who will get promoted to FGO!!!

Edited by Rusty Pipes
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If they have a board that's similar to what you see for O-4/5, what does those boards use as a discriminator? It's the AAD. But I've seen some go in res without even a BAC+. Have no clue how that happens. Timing I guess.

"Have no clue how that happens." Here are a few clues:

Step one: dudes are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Not building building habitat for humanity houses, not planning community "fun runs." Executing their primary mission.

Step two: their commanders/raters are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Managing and leading their people. Not looking at spreadsheets with AAD stats.

Oh, snap. I forgot where I worked. I meant to say...

... In residence SOS without even putting in enough effort to get a BAC+?! What an outrage!

Edited by BUSTED
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"Have no clue how that happens." Here are a few clues:

Step one: dudes are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Not building building habitat for humanity houses, not planning community "fun runs." Executing their primary mission.

Step two: their commanders/raters are good at their j-o-b. Their primary job. Managing and leading their people. Not looking at spreadsheets with AAD stats.

Oh, snap. I forgot where I worked. I meant to say...

... In residence SOS without even putting in enough effort to get a BAC+?! What an outrage!

As much as I agree that this guy is a troll and bad for the Air Force, I think he was referring to ACSC. He is a tool though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he really did mean SOS.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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