Promotion and PRF Information

[Beaver]

Separated at birth?

[Herk Driver]

Umm, incorrect. Once an officer is selected for Colonel, even if a previous SDE-select, there is no guarantee of school. The individual no longer meets the DEDB- they meet a special school panel in DPO with no guarantee of school. DPO will try to get O-6 BPZers to school as well, even if not previously SDE-select, but not required and no guarantees.

You pilot idiots want to argue with someone deep in the personnel world about a personnel issue? Stick to airplanes, flyboys. You're not as briliiant as you think you are.

So, riddle me this since you are obviously not an idiot and far more enlightened than us lowly pilot types, why is there a DE designation on the O-6 list when it is released? Note, I did not say SDE select but there is an DE designator.

[General Chang]

So, riddle me this since you are obviously not an idiot and far more enlightened than us lowly pilot types, why is there a DE designation on the O-6 list when it is released? Note, I did not say SDE select but there is an DE designator.

DE designator means nothing. The system automatically places it there by virtue of BPZ. Once you make Col-select, whether a prior SDE-select or never-SDE-select, it means nothing. If the Colonel's Group wants to send you (and they usually do), then you go. If they need you to work and skip SDE, depending on the career field, you do that. In other words, you are at the mercy of DPO. You don't even get to fill out an ADP anymore, because they don't even look at it. As a Colonel, you are completely "needs of the AF."

The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

[sputnik]

, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his [or HER] retirement date).

FIFY

Sexist pig.

[General Chang]

FIFY

Sexist pig.

Nice. Elevating the conversation.

[matmacwc]

DE designator means nothing. The system automatically places it there by virtue of BPZ. Once you make Col-select, whether a prior SDE-select or never-SDE-select, it means nothing. If the Colonel's Group wants to send you (and they usually do), then you go. If they need you to work and skip SDE, depending on the career field, you do that. In other words, you are at the mercy of DPO. You don't even get to fill out an ADP anymore, because they don't even look at it. As a Colonel, you are completely "needs of the AF."

The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

This dude has been correct in almost everything he has said, mostly the party line, but what do you expect?? Ask him about VSP, RIF, AF future; you guys are bogged down. I know most of us are pilots and he may be not, but not all AF leaders are pilots (sucks). Lets get this forum back to the real AF and less bitching, continue some bitching, but ask about real issues, AND OFFER FIXES! Maybe that is a new forum.

I'm just a ANG fighter pilot Major, but lobbing grenades at a senior dude that might listen is crap, if you complain, recommend a fix!

Edited July 22, 2013 by matmacwc

[Recut]

This dude has been correct in almost everything he has said, mostly the party line, but what do you expect?? Ask him about VSP, RIF, AF future; you guys are bogged down. I know most of us are pilots and he may be not, but not all AF leaders are pilots (sucks). Lets get this forum back to the real AF and less bitching, continue some bitching, but ask about real issues, AND OFFER FIXES! Maybe that is a new forum.

I'm just a ANG fighter pilot Major, but lobbing grenades at a senior dude that might listen is crap, if you complain, recommend a fix!

I could listen to someone like Chang at a CC call or probably on some forum on the portal. No thanks.

[Recut]

You pilot idiots want to argue with someone deep in the personnel world about a personnel issue? Stick to airplanes, flyboys. You're not as briliiant as you think you are.

This idiot pilot wishes you wouldn't talk. Something is deep inside of you deep inside the personnel world.

You think that is supposed to impress us?

Combat mission count.... go.

Don't forget, nerd: this is the AIR Force. Without us, you'd be in the lower rungs of human resources at Blockbuster Video or something.

Eff off.

"2"

[herkbum]

I'm just a ANG fighter pilot Major, but lobbing grenades at a senior dude that might listen is crap, if you complain, recommend a fix!

Most of those grenades have been return fire. To get respect, you have to give respect.

[C-21.Pilot]

The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

1. It's not funny, it's sad.

2. The "some" guys, for the most part, are guys I would never follow or respect in battle.

3. I would complain about a 365 to.

I personally feel that if you patrol this "unspoken" notion about being dicked over as a Col, how many 11F's would you suspect stay in the rack and stack game.

Eh, what do I know. I'm not A1.

[GearMonkey]

This dude has been correct in almost everything he has said, mostly the party line, but what do you expect??

Didn't he say a million pages ago that FY2014 force shaping was going to be a bloodbath? Based on the memo a few days ago it doesn't look much different than every other year (no Palace Chase for you, NEXT!).

[Jaded]

I'm guessing we haven't seen the end of the FY14 force shaping initiatives. If the budget gets slashed...

[AnimalMother]

I sincerely hope that you are correct sir.

[Dupe]

The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

The really funny thing is when these guys then stand up and say "Life balance is important" when we all know these types Q3'd life balance in service to the AF. I've seen the life of 0-6s / GOs...that doesn't look fun. I sure hope it's rewarding. There's the rub for senior officers: convincing the right guys that further family sacrafice is actually worth it. The ego-driven micromanagers don't need convincing... the guys that should be leading the AF very much do. Right now, quite alot of those guys are punching.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Dupe

[NotADude]

"2."

Somebody once said, in answer to the question "are you going to do 20?"

"No, because I don't want to be that guy up on the stage at my retirement ceremony apologizing to my family."

That kinda stuck with me.

[Champ Kind]

I don't think having a happy/supportive family and serving 20 years are mutually exclusive...

[C-21.Pilot]

I've been told by many before me that choosing your family over the AF is the best decision you will ever make.

That's the route I choose....

[Crog]

"2."

Somebody once said, in answer to the question "are you going to do 20?"

"No, because I don't want to be that guy up on the stage at my retirement ceremony apologizing to my family."

That kinda stuck with me.

....and that was exactly what made my mind up. Watched my OG/CC at his retirement apologize to his family for placing them far down the list for the sake of his career. Talked about trying to make up for lost time. Never forget the dismissive, half-pissed, half-asleep scowl his punkish looking teenage son wore.

[Bobby]

I've been told by many before me that choosing your family over the AF is the best decision you will ever make.

That's the route I choose....

Big "2"

[NotADude]

I don't think having a happy/supportive family and serving 20 years are mutually exclusive...

I think there are definitely instances when it could work (being passed over might help), but to me it seems the exception to the rule in today's military. When I look at an O-6 and contemplate his/her schedule, I don't want to be showing up every day at 0630 and staying until 1900 (or later), then showing up every Saturday to work on OPRs etc. (I've even seen some O-5 SQ/CCs do this). I would rather be doing other things with my life.

[ClearedHot]

The funny thing is, some guys drive hard their entire careers to be Colonels. Then, when they make it, they complain about the 365, followed by assignment to crapville, and complain that they've lost all control of their careers. And they are correct; as a Colonel, you lose virtually all control over or input into your career. Except, of course, the day you retire (but even on that issue, there's only two windows during the year in which a Colonel can control his retirement date).

Maybe thats because some guys just worked hard, flew their ass off, supported their people, led and were promoted to O-6. The reward for all that sacrifice is to be treated like an indentured servant. I got it, most Col's have older parents, most Col's have kids in high school, needs of the Air Force....trust me, I get it. But why do we spend a lifetime developing a senior leader only to ride them like a wet dog? Sadly, it doesn't matter to most of them right now because they are staying in the USAF in record numbers...numbers so high they have force shaping and a SERB on the horizon...hell USAF even got the law changed so you can meet multiple SERBs. USAF is getting away with it right now because the economy is in the dumper...but it will get better and the only ones who will stay are the dirt bags who can't get a job on the outside.

What is truly amazing is how the current system became so brutal under Schwartz. In 2009 the Command Candidate Board met with horrible results. At that point you had to raise your paw if you wanted to be considered for senior command, then you got a nomination to back it up. When the board met they did not have enough folks in certain categories. They went back and did some research and found that a LOT of people including 54% of their high-speed below the zone folks declined consideration for command. The results were so bad the service was having a tough time sending all their NDU grads to the legal required (50%+1), joint jobs. Facing this dilemma USAF made an interesting choice, rather than address the problems that were causing so many people to tap out (Ops Tempo), they changed the policy to the "All In Policy". Now every Colonel is considered for Command and if you decline you have 90 days to get out of the service...thank you very much!

The problem persists today with some key career fields (Mx), critically short of qualified Col's. Some graduated commanders have been forced into a second command tour (several seven day opted), others are being asked to extend.

Oh well, we will just make more.

[matmacwc]

This should be interesting

[Herk Driver]

CH, totally agree. I contend that the SERBs for O-5s and O-6s and changing the law as we go will continue until cuts to the GO ranks take place and collectively they start feeling the same "pain" that the rest of the force feels. One could argue that most of the GO cuts that have taken place are smoke and mirrors (i.e. the OIF drawdown allowed billets to be reduced but no substantive changes have taken place)

[BitteEinBit]

Just imagine...we are "making more" senior leaders using questionable qualification criteria. Don't get me wrong...we are promoting a lot of smart dudes who can manage things pretty well (for the most part) but lack interpersonal skills and basic leadership.

We really should be asking the question WHY qualified dudes are turning down opportunities to command and lead. We should be asking why dudes are "just trying to make it to 20" so they can get out or at least skate long enough for that bad deal comes along and THEN retire. We should be asking these questions ESPECIALLY if DoD is even considering changing our retirement system. I don't know any dudes who say "I can't wait till I get to 30 so I can finally retire!" but almost everyone I know can't wait to get to 20 and get out...to me, that is more alarming.

CH, you nailed it! We can get away with it because the economy isn't so great so no one is getting out...for now. We should really be concerned about maintaining minimum manning levels at a time there is a slowly improving economy and retention rates are at a record high, because what it means is that when the economy actually does improve and retention rates return to normal, you'll have a shortage of qualified bubbas as everyone walks out the door either "when I make it to 20" or at 10 years because their talents may be better compensated on the outside. It a complicated "readiness" issue, but a risk the AF is willing to take based on current administration foreign policy, national security strategy, and fiscal policy. IMHO, we are creating the perfect storm for a personnel and readiness disaster. I'm just glad the everyone all the way up to the SECDEF himself is at least acknowledging it and speaking up. I'm just not sure anyone above that is really listening...

[Ram]

CH, thank you for making an appearance in this thread.