Promotion and PRF Information

[Vetter]

Danke! Not like it matters.

[Fifty-six & Two]

11X ineligible for Palace Chase.

Still eligible for palace chase. Not eligible for the reduced commitment palace chase (1 for 1 versus the standard 3 for 1).

[Champ Kind]

Good point.

[Rusty Pipes]

"FY 14 Officer Voluntary Force Management Programs" message is out for those who have access to myPers: https://gum-crm.csd....tail/a_id/24198

OK, so which is it... do we have a "glut" of guys or not? Instead of listing all of those who are ineligible for these programs they should just say who is eligible... "After months of debate, discussion, panning and thousands of man hours from our team, we are pleased to announce that the FY14 Voluntary Force Management Program will apply to both Bob and Stanley!" If they have too many guys in that 16-20 year group you would think they would come out with some sort of early retirement program that would save the DoD money in both the short and long term by offering a reduced percentage of base pay for retirement. These guys have either made O-5 or have been offered continuation already (although I don't know what happened to the twice passed over guys with the results out yesterday). Non-continuation was an absolute disaster a few years ago and they know it would crush retention if they tried it again (stranger things have happened though). These guys who are in this 16-20 year window are still going to work hard for you, but even at that the vast majority of them are coasting to 20. If there really is this "glut" of folks in the FGO range that guys like Chang was talking about and the AF really thinks it is a problem... well the same 75% selection rate to O-5 and these Voluntary Force Management Programs aren't doing anything to thin out the herd. If we have so many 11Ms then why would they be ineligible for all of these programs... hmmmmmm? We may be good on the end strength numbers right now, but this program doesn't seem to reflect what we have been hearing from A1 about our manning situation... just an observation.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[Karl Hungus]

I like the "we reserve the right to change our minds/remove eligible AFSCs from these programs any time we want, with zero notice" bit they threw in this year. Looks like they did learn something from the previous debacles...sorta.

[backseatdriver]

Looking at the O-5 list - I found it interesting that 100% of the BPZers were SDE selects. 130 of the 195 school slots went to the BPZ guys

Edited July 18, 2013 by backseatdriver

[ThreeHoler]

Looking at the O-5 list - I found it interesting that 100% of the BPZers were SDE selects. 130 of the 195 school slots went to the BPZ guys

Pretty sure it has been that way for at least a few years...since they are the "top 1%" or somesuch.

[HeloDude]

...since they are the "top 1%

The elite. The best of the best. We’ll SDE will make you better...

Edited July 18, 2013 by HeloDude

[Sthrndream]

Friend of mine currently in school (IDE) said he heard an unsubstantiated rumor delaying FY14 Lt Col Board till 2015. Has anyone heard/confirm this? Not trying to create any drama, just want to know what is being said in big Air Force. I'm in a JTF so connections are limited to my airframe only and have not gotten any replies.

[Butters]

Friend of mine currently in school (IDE) said he heard an unsubstantiated rumor delaying FY14 Lt Col Board till 2015. Has anyone heard/confirm this? Not trying to create any drama, just want to know what is being said in big Air Force. I'm in a JTF so connections are limited to my airframe only and have not gotten any replies.

Possibly true, but it doesn't matter. Just like when they moved the last Majors board back. Everyone will still pin on at the same time, there will just be less time between getting promoted and pinning on.

[TarHeelPilot]

Possibly true, but it doesn't matter. Just like when they moved the last Majors board back. Everyone will still pin on at the same time, there will just be less time between getting promoted and pinning on.

Pros and Cons to this I suppose. My board met 20 months ago, announced 15 months ago, and I still have to wait 1,000 more line numbers before I can pin-on O-4.

[Jaded]

Possibly true, but it doesn't matter. Just like when they moved the last Majors board back. Everyone will still pin on at the same time, there will just be less time between getting promoted and pinning on.

Mmmmm, check is still in the mail on that one. I'll believe it when I see it.

[HeloDude]

So what is the word on continuation to 20 for the dudes now twice passed over? I haven't heard anything negative (I know the results just came out and it's still early), but it sounds like no news is good news.

[Catbox]

OK, so which is it... do we have a "glut" of guys or not? Instead of listing all of those who are ineligible for these programs they should just say who is eligible... "After months of debate, discussion, panning and thousands of man hours from our team, we are pleased to announce that the FY14 Voluntary Force Management Program will apply to both Bob and Stanley!" If they have too many guys in that 16-20 year group you would think they would come out with some sort of early retirement program that would save the DoD money in both the short and long term by offering a reduced percentage of base pay for retirement. These guys have either made O-5 or have been offered continuation already (although I don't know what happened to the twice passed over guys with the results out yesterday). Non-continuation was an absolute disaster a few years ago and they know it would crush retention if they tried it again (stranger things have happened though). These guys who are in this 16-20 year window are still going to work hard for you, but even at that the vast majority of them are coasting to 20. If there really is this "glut" of folks in the FGO range that guys like Chang was talking about and the AF really thinks it is a problem... well the same 75% selection rate to O-5 and these Voluntary Force Management Programs aren't doing anything to thin out the herd. If we have so many 11Ms then why would they be ineligible for all of these programs... hmmmmmm? We may be good on the end strength numbers right now, but this program doesn't seem to reflect what we have been hearing from A1 about our manning situation... just an observation.

I can only speak for myself but I just signed my continuation paperwork...and right quick. Having said that I read the FY14 program and it still makes no sense to me. Why they don't have an option for those of us who were passed over to move on, solve some manning problems while still allowing us to be "in the club" at a reduced rate makes no sense to me.

I'm thrilled and thankful at being continued and I think my posts will probably take a decidedly more positive tone from here on out, so I dont know if I would take anything if it were offered. Bu I know dozens of people who would jump at the chance.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Catbox

[TarHeelPilot]

I can only speak for myself but I just signed my continuation paperwork...and right quick. Having said that I read the FY14 program and it still makes no sense to me. Why they don't have an option for those of us who were passed over to get move on, solve some manning problems while still allowing us to be "in the club" at a reduced rate makes no sense to me.

Because the overmanned career fields made unnecessary promotions. The answer is very clear-- LAF Rated and LAF non-Rated boards.

[disgruntledemployee]

The cut line to be selected BPZ is way, way higher than the cut line to get school, so BPZers are always school selects by default.

But what they are saying is that someone a year or 2 younger is not just better than their peers, but better than dudes senior to them. At least at the Maj board, the school slots are competed among peers.

Out

[Rusty Pipes]

I can only speak for myself but I just signed my continuation paperwork...and right quick. Having said that I read the FY14 program and it still makes no sense to me. Why they don't have an option for those of us who were passed over to move on, solve some manning problems while still allowing us to be "in the club" at a reduced rate makes no sense to me.

I'm thrilled and thankful at being continued and I think my posts will probably take a decidedly more positive tone from here on out, so I dont know if I would take anything if it were offered. Bu I know dozens of people who would jump at the chance.

I guess if you think about it the window for this as well as the number of folks it applies to wouldn't be significant enough to make much of a difference financially for the AF. The twice passed over to O-5 group looks to be only a few hundred each year and it would usually come at around their 15 yr point (when they are actually offered continuation that is). I've never heard of it happening (maybe some of the guys around during the 90's RIF may have examples), but I think technically even if you are offered continuation Big Blue can still decide to kick you out up until you hit sanctuary (18 years I think). Big Blue already got a huge black eye for non-continuing those 157 that they still haven't recovered from... imagine what would happen if they booted guys who were offered continuation and then booted them a year or two later with just separation pay. Crazier things have happened, but you'd have to be out of your mind or have some incredible deal waiting for you on the outside to walk away at the 18 year point since most early retirement plans discussed have given between a 3-4% reduction per year below 20. Hell, if you have some leave built up you can be on terminal 3-4 months before your actual retirement date anyway!

I do know a few guys (3-4 yrs ago) who were continued guys that got hit with shitty 365s at 18 1/2 years which totally sucked. Maybe it just happens to be where I am, but since OIF officially shut down I haven't seen too many non-vol 365s; in fact the few that have been dropped had multiple BPZ wannabes who were volunteering because they didn't want to "miss their chance" to be on a deployed Staff (all you, Bro... you can have it!). I also know some folks who had volunteered for 365s and got sent home after 6-7 months. My point is that being a continued Maj is a pretty good deal... and if you can find a way to keep flying possibly the best deal in the AF. If Big Blue had any brains at all they would go back to what they used to do and put these guys back in the Sqs... You'd have some crusty crew dawgs who were not only happy as a pig in shit, but would bring back the very much needed experience to the Squadrons that whether A1 wants to admit or not are about to be depleted of a lot of talent to the Airlines in the next year or two. The two best pilots (and the ones I by far learned the most from as a young pilot) were the two passed over Majs who were flying the line!

[Champ Kind]

I also know some folks who had volunteered for 365s and got sent home after 6-7 months.

Did they still get short tour credit? That would suck to vol for a 365 and get sent home "early", only to have your name thrown back in the hat to be eligible for another one down the road.

[addict]

...even if you are offered continuation Big Blue can still decide to kick you out up until you hit sanctuary (18 years I think).

Sanctuary is just for the Reserves. For Active Duty a late separation is just considered a shi**y move.

Edited July 19, 2013 by addict

[ThreeHoler]

Sanctuary is just for the Reserves. For Active Duty a late separation is just considered a shi**y move.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that by current law you cannot be removed from AD after 18 years of service except for UCMJ reasons.

[addict]

....my hazy confidence in what the gov't can do in their exception clause.... like, meeting end strength.

Edited July 19, 2013 by addict

[Herk Driver]

If Big Blue had any brains at all they would go back to what they used to do and put these guys back in the Sqs... You'd have some crusty crew dawgs who were not only happy as a pig in shit, but would bring back the very much needed experience to the Squadrons that whether A1 wants to admit or not are about to be depleted of a lot of talent to the Airlines in the next year or two. The two best pilots (and the ones I by far learned the most from as a young pilot) were the two passed over Majs who were flying the line!

The two worst pilots at my last base were dudes that were passed over O-4's just flying the line...oh, wait. They did everything they could to not only not fly the line, but they would just sit around their cushy offices in the OSS and do jack shit...YMMV.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that by current law you cannot be removed from AD after 18 years of service except for UCMJ reasons.

removed, looked at it again and this is correct under what I believe to be the current version of the applicable sections of Title 10.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Herk Driver

[USAF Pilot]

Looking at the O-5 list - I found it interesting that 100% of the BPZers were SDE selects. 130 of the 195 school slots went to the BPZ guys

Yea I thought this was actually written into AFI 36-2301 BPZ to O-5 is automatically a SDE select...Or maybe it was to O-6. Ether way O-5 BPZ promotions rates are in the neighborhood of 3-5%. IPZ O-5 promotion rates that just came out were 74.5%. Selects are dolled out at the rate of 20-30% for O-5 & O-6. Even if I'm incorrect on the AFI reference, your BPZ folks are by far your top tier people.

Edited July 20, 2013 by USAF Pilot

[General Chang]

Yea I thought this was actually written into AFI 36-2301 BPZ to O-5 is automatically a SDE select...Or maybe it was to O-6. Ether way O-5 BPZ promotions rates are in the neighborhood of 3-5%. IPZ O-5 promotion rates that just came out were 74.5%. Selects are dolled out at the rate of 20-30% for O-5 & O-6. Even if I'm incorrect on the AFI reference, you're BPZ folks are by far your top teir people.

Don't post if you don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about. There's no such thing as an O-6 SDE-select. Rate for O-5 is around 15%, which includes all BPZers. This year's O-5 line BPZ rate was 3.1%.

[USAF Pilot]

Don't post if you don't have a flipping clue what you're talking about. There's no such thing as an O-6 SDE-select. Rate for O-5 is around 15%, which includes all BPZers. This year's O-5 line BPZ rate was 3.1%.

Well that was quick....

Should I end my post with Keep the Faith?