Promotion and PRF Information

[pawnman]

Just stop. No one is feeling sorry for you.

I'm not getting into a dick-measuring contest about who has the higher opstempo.

My point was that this advice:

It's all about trade-offs. If its worth it to someone, they can do it. I've seen it plenty of times ranging from Aero to Applied Mathematics and Computer Science from good schools.

Between crew rest, whatever weekends you get, CTO, post-mission crew rest, that 30 days of leave you get a year, and the occasional ETIC, you can get a a hell of a lot done. It might be a giant pain in the ass and a whole lot less time drinking, but anyone who says it can't be done is flat out lying or lacks time management skills. However, the #1 thing I can say if someone is really worried about it is to put off popping out the kiddies for a few years. You'll love them just as much when you're 30 and when you're 26. Kids change everything, but they are a choice in and of themselves.

If its not worth it to you, great. That's your choice and its valid. Either pass on the AAD or get your diploma-mill degree. But it is a choice.

Its perfectly possible to get a good AAD, you just have to accept the trade offs.

Is complete bullshit to guys (like all of us, I assume) who are already away from home all the time for deployments, TDYs, and exercises. I didn't have a choice to delay kids to do my master's...my kid was already born when I joined. The idea that we should take leave to complete a de facto requisite that isn't in any official guidance is asinine.

My point wasn't to make every go "Aw, wook at the poor wittle Bone guys, they have it so rough". My point was, I don't think Slackline's advice is all that applicable. "Family is a choice" boiled down, to me, "Tell your family to fuck off, the Air Force matters more". I wish him luck with that line of thought, but I plan to keep my current family until well after I'm done with the Air Force.

I've seen plenty of guys who prioritized work over family. They're usually the guys with alimony payments who hang out in the squadron bar until midnight every night, trying to tell anyone who walks past the door war stories. No thanks, I'll just take my shitty check the box master's now and look for a real one when I get out and/or get that sweet staff job where I'm home every night.

[LJ Driver]

http://www.af.mil/ne...sp?id=123351830

Just saw this solid-gold article on AF.mil, the quote below sums the article up nicely - and pretty much confirms all of our thoughts about filling squares...

"The choice is yours and yours alone. Be willing to accept the consequences. Don't say, "He/she only got Senior Airman below-the-zone because he went to school." Rather, you must say, "I lost because I chose not to go to school. I chose not to fill the squares."

Edited June 19, 2013 by LJ Driver

[pawnman]

http://www.af.mil/ne...sp?id=123351830

Just saw this solid-gold article on AF.mil, the quote below sums the article up nicely - and pretty much confirms all of our thoughts about filling squares...

"The choice is yours and yours alone. Be willing to accept the consequences. Don't say, "He/she only got Senior Airman below-the-zone because he went to school." Rather, you must say, "I lost because I chose not to go to school. I chose not to fill the squares."

40-hour work week? Must be in the FSS.

[slackline]

My point was, I don't think Slackline's advice is all that applicable. "Family is a choice" boiled down, to me, "Tell your family to ###### off, the Air Force matters more". I wish him luck with that line of thought, but I plan to keep my current family until well after I'm done with the Air Force.

I've seen plenty of guys who prioritized work over family. They're usually the guys with alimony payments who hang out in the squadron bar until midnight every night, trying to tell anyone who walks past the door war stories. No thanks, I'll just take my shitty check the box master's now and look for a real one when I get out and/or get that sweet staff job where I'm home every night.

WTF? You have serious reading comprehension issues! I had two kids before finishing UPT. My point was the exact opposite of what your applying to me. I was acknowledging that family is a choice as well, and you're a moron if you think it isn't. Nobody forced you to knock up the Mrs... Family is a choice, but that doesn't mean it's going to take a back seat to anything at my house.

Here's some new advice for you: go re-read my posts, and re-think about what it says. I'm with you. My family is with me for the long haul, and vice-versa.

Okay, back to the discussion.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Whitman]

JEEZUS CHRIST ON A CRACKER. Ask LTC Raible and the rest of VMA-211 if drinking your 3 beers/day and living in a hotel suite while deployed is better than dodging RPGs and getting mortared weekly. GFY.

Easy tiger (or Ram). All I'm saying is from a mission perspective, I'd rather be closer to the where I can do my job so I can have a greater influence. I never wasted much time worrying about where I was sleeping, whether it was in a B hut in OEF or a trailer in the CC, but the danger that our troops face in country is a legitimate threat and concern to me. That's why I'd rather be 30min away.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Whitman

[pawnman]

WTF? You have serious reading comprehension issues! I had two kids before finishing UPT. My point was the exact opposite of what your applying to me. I was acknowledging that family is a choice as well, and you're a moron if you think it isn't. Nobody forced you to knock up the Mrs... Family is a choice, but that doesn't mean it's going to take a back seat to anything at my house.

Here's some new advice for you: go re-read my posts, and re-think about what it says. I'm with you. My family is with me for the long haul, and vice-versa.

Okay, back to the discussion.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Well, then I took it wrong. Because I've had people tell me it's a choice before, and usually they are implying that I'm choosing not to get promoted if I put the family above the Air Force when it comes to queep.

Maybe you managed to get a stellar MBA from Harvard while deploying, going TDY, and keeping the kids well-entertained. If so, I wish I knew the secret. I did what the Air Force asked of me, in the way that required the least amount of sacrifice for the family.

[slackline]

Well, then I took it wrong. Because I've had people tell me it's a choice before, and usually they are implying that I'm choosing not to get promoted if I put the family above the Air Force when it comes to queep.

Maybe you managed to get a stellar MBA from Harvard while deploying, going TDY, and keeping the kids well-entertained. If so, I wish I knew the secret. I did what the Air Force asked of me, in the way that required the least amount of sacrifice for the family.

Okay, this time with less venom. I have been extremely lucky, as I've stated before, and I had good bros and bosses looking out for me in terms of ranking, awards, opr's, etc. I do not have an AAD or even Bac+. Still somehow got picked up for school. I stayed late when staying late was required, I took my share of bad deal tdy's, last second deployments, etc. When that crap wasn't required, I was out of there the earliest possible opportunity I could be. In fact, in my previous assignment, my boss was a real good dude. He always told us that if the work was done, and we could manage to stay ahead of things, we could clear our shops out as long as it was never abused. I, to the dismay of some one here, was running the biggest shop in the sqd, and I kicked my guys home to be with the family, work on CCAF, PT, etc as often as I possibly could. Big picture focus truly kept our sqdn running smoothly. Boss told us he would worry about big picture, and leave little picture crap to us as long as the little picture crap got done.

Best dude I ever worked for!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Edited June 19, 2013 by slackline

[Champ Kind]

You have mentioned your story in some form or another a few times...

I hope you realize just how lucky you are, and that your story is definitely an anomaly.

[slackline]

You have mentioned your story in some form or another a few times...

I hope you realize just how lucky you are, and that your story is definitely an anomaly.

Yeah, I apologize. My intent was not to sing my own praises. I was simply trying to point out that occasionally you do find good leaders that do look out for you, or your bros that put you in for awards when deployed.

I am incredibly grateful for the leaders that have given me the chances I've been given, and fully recognize that I'm no better than anyone else. Promise won't bring it up again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Mike Honcho]

You have mentioned your story in some form or another a few times...

I hope you realize just how lucky you are, and that your story is definitely an anomaly.

Don't shit on him for that. While it may be an anomaly, it exists. You can't blame a man for appreciating what he has/had and trying to show others that hope is still alive.

I've never written my own OPR and my flight at SOS couldn't believe it. But I wasn't ball walking.

[Champ Kind]

I should have added a caveat at the bottom that I wasn't trying to shit on you, and no apology is necessary. I acknowledge that it is difficult to interpret emotion on the interwebs.

Unless you're a douche (I don't know you... you don't come across as such, though), I am glad that things have worked out for you. I like seeing good things happen to good people.

You have a good story. It definitely falls into the, "see, it can be done" category.

[ThreeHoler]

Don't shit on him for that. While it may be an anomaly, it exists. You can't blame a man for appreciating what he has/had and trying to show others that hope is still alive.

I've never written my own OPR and my flight at SOS couldn't believe it. But I wasn't ball walking.

I think it is less of an anomaly than people think...since most of the people who come here come here to bitch.

[17D_guy]

http://www.af.mil/ne...sp?id=123351830

Just saw this solid-gold article on AF.mil, the quote below sums the article up nicely - and pretty much confirms all of our thoughts about filling squares...

"The choice is yours and yours alone. Be willing to accept the consequences. Don't say, "He/she only got Senior Airman below-the-zone because he went to school." Rather, you must say, "I lost because I chose not to go to school. I chose not to fill the squares."

I thought not getting SrA BTZ was due to not having tits.

[Cell Dweller]

I thought not getting SrA BTZ was due to not having tits.

That only applies to Cyber Ops.

[Guest ThatGuy]

I walked into the BTZ board having to compete against two other SrA who were females. You were graded on your answers and BTZ package. One of the SrA was in my squadron and we both were on day shift together. We didn't know the other SrA. I walked out of the board knowing I was going to get my stripe. My supervisors "bred" (LOL) me to win boards. I say that because I can articulate myself pretty well. My supervisors told me my BTZ package would be solid and all I needed to do was show up and do my part. Needless to say, I garnered my stripe. Now that I think about it I did check some boxes...Red Rope, Awards, going to school, volunteer work, and one hell of a basketball player for the squadron.

[soultrain]

I walked into the BTZ board having to compete against two other SrA who were females. You were graded on your answers and BTZ package. One of the SrA was in my squadron and we both were on day shift together. We didn't know the other SrA. I walked out of the board knowing I was going to get my stripe. My supervisors "bred" (LOL) me to win boards. I say that because I can articulate myself pretty well. My supervisors told me my BTZ package would be solid and all I needed to do was show up and do my part. Needless to say, I garnered my stripe. Now that I think about it I did check some boxes...Red Rope, Awards, going to school, volunteer work, and one hell of a basketball player for the squadron.

Cool story, bro.

[zach braff]

I did not get picked up for BTZ. Then two weeks later I got picked up for ROTC scholarship. Moral: Not good enough for SrA? Just become an officer instead!

zb

[Guest ThatGuy]

I did not get picked up for BTZ. Then two weeks later I got picked up for ROTC scholarship. Moral: Not good enough for SrA? Just become an officer instead! zb

That is messed up when you think about it. Some supervisors are really great writers and some are not just like on the officer side. Most bases do not have a BTZ board where you actually meet the board in person and they determine whether you are worthy or not of receiving a stripe early. From my understanding a vast majority of the bases have a "paper only board."

I won't forget what my pops told me when I was an airman. He was active duty Army at the time. He said, "You are crazy if you don't do what's necessary to achieve your next rank. Don't be like your peers and blow stuff off. When it comes down to it, if you don't get promoted you are taking money out of your own pocket. Getting promoted is something you actually control."

Cool story, bro.

Thanks Soooooooul Traaaaaaaaaaain!

Edited June 20, 2013 by slick999

[Vetter]

We are now talking fucking airman BTZ promotions. Can we just lock the thread already?

[Guest ThatGuy]

We are now talking ######ing airman BTZ promotions. Can we just lock the thread already?

The thread says "Promotion & PRF Information." It does not specify what we can and cannot discuss. Secondly, I supervise airmen, NCOs, and SNCO's. If I am not ensuring they are well taken care of and deserving of promotion then I shouldn't be promoted either. Third, I made a comparison between box checking and promotion as compared to the enlisted side.

Edited June 20, 2013 by slick999

[zach braff]

We are now talking ######ing airman BTZ promotions. Can we just lock the thread already?

It's fun to reminisce about the good old days when this thread was about PRFs and Promotions.

So just for old time's sake - what format is everyone's command using for PRF writing these days? Mostly I've seen the "C-Zone" with a career-summary top line, strats & other good stuff along the left, and the bottom line being the big one. But there are also some folks who fill the top two lines with the strats & big stuff, the bullet/impact stuff in the middle, then the bottom line still as the big one. Not sure which is considered stronger though...

zb

[Guest ThatGuy]

It's fun to reminisce about the good old days when this thread was about PRFs and Promotions. So just for old time's sake - what format is everyone's command using for PRF writing these days? Mostly I've seen the "C-Zone" with a career-summary top line, strats & other good stuff along the left, and the bottom line being the big one. But there are also some folks who fill the top two lines with the strats & big stuff, the bullet/impact stuff in the middle, then the bottom line still as the big one. Not sure which is considered stronger though... zb

My GP/CC slides call it the "C-Method." I wasn't there the morning that he briefed the slides I have due to having duty the night before. I had to ask his exec for the slides. Anyway, I assume the C-Zone and C-Method are one in the same because the example in his slides mimick what you are describing.

Edited June 20, 2013 by slick999

[sqwatch]

It's fun to reminisce about the good old days when this thread was about PRFs and Promotions.

So just for old time's sake - what format is everyone's command using for PRF writing these days? Mostly I've seen the "C-Zone" with a career-summary top line, strats & other good stuff along the left, and the bottom line being the big one. But there are also some folks who fill the top two lines with the strats & big stuff, the bullet/impact stuff in the middle, then the bottom line still as the big one. Not sure which is considered stronger though...

zb

My GP/CC slides call it the "C-Method." I wasn't there the morning that he briefed the slides I have due to having duty the night before. I had to ask his exec for the slides. Anyway, I assume the C-Zone and C-Method are one in the same because the example in his slides mimick what you are describing.

Edited June 20, 2013 by sqwatch

[Tulsa]

Yeah, I apologize. My intent was not to sing my own praises. I was simply trying to point out that occasionally you do find good leaders that do look out for you, or your bros that put you in for awards when deployed.

I am incredibly grateful for the leaders that have given me the chances I've been given, and fully recognize that I'm no better than anyone else. Promise won't bring it up again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

slackline, did you come from the 347th wing at Moody by any chance? Just inquisitive, no other motive.

Attack!

Tulsa

[Fifty-six & Two]

So just for old time's sake - what format is everyone's command using for PRF writing these days? Mostly I've seen the "C-Zone" with a career-summary top line, strats & other good stuff along the left, and the bottom line being the big one. But there are also some folks who fill the top two lines with the strats & big stuff, the bullet/impact stuff in the middle, then the bottom line still as the big one. Not sure which is considered stronger though...

zb

My understanding is that the c-zone is the stronger. It'll be used for individuals with multiple number one strats as those will be along the left side. I've seen the c-zone for the top dudes and everyone else has the other method.