Promotion and PRF Information

[Azimuth]

My problem is with individuals who judge people or already have preconceived notions based off where a person came from (prior E) and not what their records or whole person concept indicates. I've always heard priors are either great or not so great. I'm not going to say everyone falls into two categories though. That would be very close minded.

My previous job experience as an E never limited me by my rank or position. And coming from a joint environment, I was permitted to run an operations area as an E-4 and well before my peers. On the officer side you have to be an AC or IP to hold a certain job title depending on your community for the most part. In my previous community I asked for the reins and they handed them over to me like in my previous job experience as an E. When you always limit people based on their rank and flying title, that's thinking inside of a box. That's kool aid for you to drink in a large cup and with tons of sugar. I understand why the requirements and limitations are in place. Great leaders don't always follow that matrix. But I don't operate like that when we are placing people into certain jobs.

You are the reason why I can't stand a majority of prior-E Officers. I bet you were a dense dipshit when you were a SrA and then punched to do ROTC. A few copilots at my last base were sent to MC-12's and/or RPA's to get rid of them. Sounds like you're one of the "chosen" from your last base.

[Disco_Nav963]

Nope, C-130 copilot that got sent to MC-12s.

Shack

If so... Then that OG/CC would have been my SQ/CC when I was a 1LT in E-3s at KTIK, and he is one of the best leaders I've worked for. That squadron had ~330 people, and he absolutely had a handle on us as individuals, not as lines on a spreadsheet. He maintained evaluator status, and (I was a scheduler) always flew way more than the minimum... Respected instructor (with experience in four airframes at that point) and big picture evaluator. Great mentor.

Now, at his current base I'm sure he has a metric buttload of CGOs between MC-12s, U-2s, and RQ-4s, and if they're doing things like my current base (I'm at SOS right now with 6 other dudes from my squadron, mostly '05 and '06 year group guys) I'm sure older dudes are the priority for SOS slots, and they tend to be further along than younger dudes. So if you have 6 slots and your squadrons put up 10 dudes, and 3 of them are Master's complete, 2 of them are Bac+, and 5 aren't either of those things, all other things being equal, it would be harder to fill that last slot if you are one of those 5. But unless this guy has changed his colors, he has a pretty good idea who his strong and weak swimmers are, and he's not going to send a tool with a Master's over someone who is shit hot and hasn't quite gotten it done yet.

Case in point... When he was in my Sq/CC, we had an AC with no Master's who had done B-52 Nav-->UPT-->C-21s-->AWACS, and consequently hadn't hit instructor upgrade in time for his O-4 board either. The boss put said individual in charge of the squadron scheduling shop, wrote a solid PRF on him, and successfully pushed for the Wg/CC to give him a DP. Dude made Major.

So IMHO Slick may be interpreting advice or rumor as policy... Unless this guy has just fundamentally changed.

[Jaded]

You have no credibility. Nobody is listening to you. You are just making it harder for people to find real gems of information in this thread.

Also, nobody cares about your path to captain.

[FUSEPLUG]

Thank you. This thread has gone full stupid. Can the mods clip everything since slick first opened his pie-hole?

[matmacwc]

100 points to Azimuth for nailing it.

So slick is currently at Beale as a Nav (sorry CSO possibly) or pilot.

I knew plenty of initial cadre that didn't want anything to do with that program in the long run, good try, and I know at least a dozen of them.

[Fuzz]

Sounds like slick has been given sugar-coated version of reality "handpicked", "by name request", "initial cadre of a new program". Maybe I'm wrong but the nature of his posts on here seem to indicate he was dumped out of his community for a reason and not because his skills were needed elsewhere.

*standing by for some middle school locker room insults*

Edited September 16, 2013 by Fuzz

[Dupe]

Right... So back to the PRF discussion. The system is retarded, but not knowing the system is equally retarded. Any questions?

[USAF Pilot]

Still always surprised when this happens, and more often than it should.. unless we're counting prior-E at E4 and below 5 years service. Then it doesn't count.

Somewhat of a question - I know they've pushed back the boards and there is no longer BTZ to O4. Is there a way currently to get promoted ahead of your peers? When I was an E you could always out test/SrA BTZ/STEP to get promoted ahead of the douches. I'm not seeing those opportunities on the O side, and I'm not sure if it's just not an MSG thing. I've asked around locally.. but it's all Space/Missile guys.

Please note, I'm not asking who's balls I have to wash/gargle. As I said in another post I can retire happily as a O3E, my dreams have been accomplished.

Once can get promoted early now-a-days but you'll have to wait until vying for Lt Col. I'm not aware of any way to get to Maj early as there is no Below-the-Promotion-Zone (BPZ) option on that promotion board (battle field promotion maybe?). Lt Col has 2 BPZ and 1 BPZ meaning one and two years early. In order to be competitive for that you'll need to have earn some meteoric strats (#1/100's) from your CGO time and FGO time + be a select out of your Maj's board so you can have completed school or be on your way to school by the time your Lt Col board meets. Having staff completed also helps. Chances of getting BPZ to Lt Col hover around 5% or less depending on your board (Line, Medical, JAG, etc).

Good Luck!

[Rusty Pipes]

This just can't be...

I was in my third year as Capt when I went to SOS. Finished my AAD right after (a year before my O-4 board). I started doing one Masters class per term within 4 months of arriving at my first operational squadron, and doubled up on a deployment. It still took me that long to finish. Unless guys are going to SOS later (closer to their O-4 board now), it seems infeasible that they would have an AAD completed in that amount of time. Either that, or are guys really getting their Masters done THAT early now?

I hate a lot of things about the AF as much as anyone, but are you sure you aren't exaggerating a tad, Rusty?

Champ... I would LOVE to say I were even exaggerating in the slightest, but I'm not. This jackass is the epitome of the box checking mentality (he is a shoe, which shouldn't surprise anyone). I don't have any guys in my shop that this matters to so I don't really have a dog in the fight, but the fact that there is an O-6 that is flat out promoting that an online AAD completed by a certain date (specifically as a 1 LT or young Capt) equates to leadership potential pisses me off to no end and is exactly what is wrong with the Air Force today. I absolutely agree that this extreme case is the exception to the rule, but there are approx 40 Capts (from what the Exec told me) in my Agency that this applies to who are competing for SOS in Res slots and it is very real for those poor bastards.

[Champ Kind]

Wow.

[Craftsman]

This may not be the best place to post this but what the hell why not.

Pope Calls "Careerism Cancer"

http://www.france24.com/en/20130919-pope-wants-airport-bishops-grounded

Edit: Not posting for a religious debate, but purely of someone in power that seems to understand how careerism is bad.

[Cell Dweller]

So, to recage this thread, I saw a few pages back before the pissing contest that AMC/A1 was stating that the promotion board for '05 comissionees was pushed another year? Is that legit, or just misstated? The board should have been this December, but was pushed into 2014 as of Sept 2012. Is there scuttlebutt that now the board will be sometime in 2015?

[zach braff]

The two rumors I've seen/heard from this thread and from AF folks semi-in-the-know are 1) pushed back a full year - so Dec 2014 or 2) Sometime Apr-Jun(ish) 2014. Of course nothing official is out so both could be completely off the mark. I haven't heard anything about pushing all the way to 2014.

CY2014 board schedule should (key word) drop within the next couple weeks - it's usually released in late September.

I had a narrative PRF already completed from a previous gig due to a long school, but with the board delay my accounting date will fall at my new unit, so I'll get to do the whole process again... Hooray.

zb

[Wing Sweep]

For PRF purposes to those who qualify, is total career info included (i.e. officer and enlisted) or just officer time?

Thanks for the help!

[Champ Kind]

Officer only.

[Wing Sweep]

Can LOE bullets that didn't make it to an OPR be included in the PRF? It was after a PCS and my CC didn't add too many bullets from my LOE because he wanted most of the bullets from my new job/squadron.

[Herk Driver]

Can LOE bullets that didn't make it to an OPR be included in the PRF? It was after a PCS and my CC didn't add too many bullets from my LOE because he wanted most of the bullets from my new job/squadron.

No

[Liquid]

A senior rater can put whatever he/she wants on the PRF. The MAJCOM may or may not direct changes. Almost none of them put info on the PRF that is not in the record since the PRF should summarize the record. A mandatory LOE (command) will be in the record. An optional one won't. The optional LOE info that is good enough to be in the PRF should be in the OPR, so the senior rater will put it in the PRF without question.

[Herk Driver]

A senior rater can put whatever he/she wants on the PRF. The MAJCOM may or may not direct changes. Almost none of them put info on the PRF that is not in the record since the PRF should summarize the record. A mandatory LOE (command) will be in the record. An optional one won't. The optional LOE info that is good enough to be in the PRF should be in the OPR, so the senior rater will put it in the PRF without question.

He is talking about an optional LOE. Otherwise, it would be in the record and not being used as source info for an OPR.

I stand corrected...what I should have said is that it is a long shot. YMMV.

IMHO, short answer is still No. The real question is why would you want to? I am sure that there is plenty in your record to put in a PRF and have watched people put some pretty mediocre info from OPRs in PRFs that was easily overshadowed by other documented info in the record.

[BUSTED]

Assuming both strats were given to 1Lt's, which would be a better OPR strat from a secondary rater (Squadron CC, in this case):

#1/6 Lts

#2/15 CGOs

I recently received an OPR with the #2/15 strat, while another Lt received the #1/6 strat, literally less than a month later. I have always been under the impression (mainly from lurking here at BODN) that a #1 strat was better, no matter what the "/XX" was, but my primary rater said that the #2 was better, because it was out of a larger pool.

I realize trying to split hairs between the two may be trivial. It's not my intent to quibble about OPR strats... I'm simply trying to figure out the super-secret code used in OPR-writing.

Does it even make sense to give those ratings to two different Lts? If one guy is the "#1 Lt," and another Lt is the "#2 CGO," wouldn't logic tell you the first guy is the #1 CGO?

[GearMonkey]

I got a "Top 5% of 15 CGOs" one time. Mathematically that's better than #1!

[Fuzz]

Assuming both strats were given to 1Lt's, which would be a better OPR strat from a secondary rater (Squadron CC, in this case):

#1/6 Lts

#2/15 CGOs

I recently received an OPR with the #2/15 strat, while another Lt received the #1/6 strat, literally less than a month later. I have always been under the impression (mainly from lurking here at BODN) that a #1 strat was better, no matter what the "/XX" was, but my primary rater said that the #2 was better, because it was out of a larger pool.

I realize trying to split hairs between the two may be trivial. It's not my intent to quibble about OPR strats... I'm simply trying to figure out the super-secret code used in OPR-writing.

Does it even make sense to give those ratings to two different Lts? If one guy is the "#1 Lt," and another Lt is the "#2 CGO," wouldn't logic tell you the first guy is the #1 CGO?

That would mean the stratification system made sense.

[TheInner]

#1/6 Lts

#2/15 CGOs

I agree with HOSS. I was part of a small group sit down with our O-7 wing king and he gave us a no holds barred discussion on PRFs/strats/etc. He explained that based on his experience, a board adds some assumptions to strats, i.e. #10/100 CGOs on your O-4 PRF doesn't necessarily equal top 10% material. Logic being someone on the board may assume 50 of those CGOs are Lts, which then drives the strat to #10/50 Capts at best. Drilling down more says ~12 of those 50 Capts are meeting their O-4 board and so, in theory, that strat could equal #10/12. This is clearly a "glass half empty" thought process but one my wing king said he has to be prepared for when writing PRFs. The bottomline is that he encourages a strat that clearly states the individuals standing, so like HOSS said the CGO strat as a Lt is better than the #1 Lt strat, an FGO strat as a Maj would be better than one as a Lt Col, excluding a #1/2/3 strat. The example he referenced was dealing with an O-5 BPZ PRF where he wants to ensure everything screams top 3-4% or better because that is who is statistically likely to be promoted so he may exclude a #8/100 type strat in favor of a smaller pool but better percentage/more competitive breakdown.

Edited September 30, 2013 by TheInner

[17D_guy]

I can not believe that in 2013 a system this stupid is in place to rate commissioned officers in the United States Air Force.

Dear higher ranking members how can you not be clearing this shit up so we get honest, easy to digest feedback on how to improve as leaders, managers and (some of you) warriors? This black magic nonsense helps no one.

[SocialD]

I can not believe that in 2013 a system this stupid is in place to rate commissioned officers in the United States Air Force.

Dear higher ranking members how can you not be clearing this shit up so we get honest, easy to digest feedback on how to improve as leaders, managers and (some of you) warriors? This black magic nonsense helps no one.

They are more worried about not offending that 1 person in the MAJCOM who gets offended by anything they don't like/agree with. We'll move on to less important things like developing our future leaders after we can go a whole year w/o 1 person being offended.

Edited October 1, 2013 by SocialD