Flight hours prior to UPT?

[VFR800]

For the purposes of TBAS, all that matters is hours. A PPL may be considered in the selection process....I don't know how a sport pilot rating would count.

During UPT, no ones going to give a crap about previous hours or ratings. Everyone will suck equally as much.

[WheelzUp]

For the purposes of TBAS, all that matters is hours. A PPL may be considered in the selection process....I don't know how a sport pilot rating would count.

During UPT, no ones going to give a crap about previous hours or ratings. Everyone will suck equally as much.

Nobody really cares much about what you flew before UPT, thats very true! But everyone will suck equally as much???? Eh....agree to disagree. I flew almost 900 hours before putting on a flight suit, and honestly speaking, it made the first half of T-37 training MUCH easier IMHO. While everyone else was freakin' out trying to learn how to run the trim switch and not flare high, I was able to comfortably focus on the other stuff like standups and GK. But after about the halfway point in tweets or T-6's, all prior experience really matters not, because the things you will be taught to do with the jet are so vastly different than anything the civillian world has to offer (formation, low-level nav at 500' agl, etc.). So for what its worth, yeah, its gonna help, but not for long, and its definately not worth spending your life savings on.

Wheelz

[Whitman]

I think the magic number is 99, once you hit 99 hours w/ or w/out PPL is good! its been about 8 years but I think the hours is what got me my slot!!

If you're talking about the hour break downs for PCSM, 101 would be the magic number in your example. 101-200 is second highest flight hour bracket, next to >201 hrs.

[Guest TacAirDrvr]

I knew it was up there. I just wasn't sure, I never got my PPL prior to UPT, just logged as many hours whenever I could to get into the higher bracket. But like I said that was 8 years ago! I got a job with my local FBO while I was in college waxing planes and cleaning them, they would trade me in hours on the C172. I just used my student ticket and would pay an instuctor to sign me off for another 20 hours for Solo time!!! I think if you were to go and talk to the owner of the FBO and tell him your dream and what you're trying to do, he'd be down!

I would say that as an IP I get 2 different kinds of students, 1 is the mature dude whos got some good civilian stories but is humble and hungry to fly the AF way. The other dude is the guy who thinks hes the shit because he was a C-172 instructor and almost hit a bird one time. I would say that when you do come to the AF, be HUMBLE AND HUNGRY and willing to unlearn several things.

Its actually kinda funny, I am trying to get my CFII so I can teach part time on the weekends for some extra money and when I had a conversation with the FSDO they didn't care that I had over 1700 Hours and was an instructor, that flying civilian was way different than flying military. So I have just decided to wait until Part 61.73 gets updated and I can give them my FORM 8 from IP School and my AIS certificate and get my CFII without taking a single test!

If I could do it again though, I think I would get hired with a Guard unit and get my time in that way! I have no interest in the airlines but what I think it would give me is the flexibility I want right now in life with a family. I would still get to deploy, fly, go to school, go on trips etc, but it would also let me go to Law school if I wanted and kind of pick my path. Instead, I have that whole needs of the AF thing workin for me, which is cool, I knew about it before I signed up.

Anyway that's my perspective. BESIDES I think you have a good FBO there, didn't your FBO win the Hotest FBO chick award. http://www.fbohotties.com/state.aspx?state=ar

[MD]

I would say that as an IP I get 2 different kinds of students, 1 is the mature dude whos got some good civilian stories but is humble and hungry to fly the AF way. The other dude is the guy who thinks hes the shit because he was a C-172 instructor and almost hit a bird one time. I would say that when you do come to the AF, be HUMBLE AND HUNGRY and willing to unlearn several things.

Excellent point. I went to UPT with @4,200 hrs TT and an ATP, but when at UPT, I was just another UPT stud, there to learn. The biggest asset my previous time and experience gave me was being able to help my buds understand things like RMIs, airways, rules/regs, basic things new to them.....ie- try to help set everyone up for success. The flying itself wasn't too difficult, nor was most of UPT due to this, but everyone in our class was able to contribute individual strengths to the class in order to make everyone's life easier. In that respect, we had a good class. Even so, we started with 33 and graduated 15 (17 if you include the 1-each Corpus and Rucker guys, IIRC). BL is, as TacAirDrvr makes an excellent point of, that prior time is what the individual makes of it....it can help you or can hurt you.

[mhc257]

I got a job with my local FBO while I was in college waxing planes and cleaning them, they would trade me in hours on the C172. I just used my student ticket and would pay an instuctor to sign me off for another 20 hours for Solo time!!! I think if you were to go and talk to the owner of the FBO and tell him your dream and what you're trying to do, he'd be down!

http://www.fbohotties.com/state.aspx?state=ar

Four points:

1) I washed airplanes, called student's for instructors, updated revisions - Whatever I could find at the airport to save money on flight training. Within a few months I landed a gig with a flight school that allowed me to work in exchange for cheap rental - I could take the airplane before/after normal business hours as long as it was fueled up and ready to fly when I came back. I timed it pretty well - Avgas was still <$3/g, so I saved a ton of money this way. Bust your ass at the airport long enough and people begin to notice.

2) If you are able to get your PPL, you can split time with other instrument students (technically any other PPL rated in your airplane) by having one of you fly "under the hood." I did this often when I had aforementioned gig and was paying about $10/hr to fuel up my school's C152. I also got a shit ton of instrument practice.

3) "Would pay an instructor to sign me off for another 20 hours!!!" I'm going to try to not read too much into this, but I do not recommend that approach. Get with an instructor and learn what the f*** you're doing - Don't just be another weekend warrior disrupting the traffic pattern and making my life as a CFI hell. There are enough clueless ass clowns in Bonanzas doing that already. Also, you don't get signed off for hours...solo endorsements are good for 90 days.

4) Sports Pilot License = Garbage. With a few extra hours you can fly most light singles and fly cross countries. The extra hours put in will teach you how to find your way from point a to point b instead of how to do 40 touch n goes trying to impress your ladyfriend who's too heavy to ride with you in your 800lb piece of crap with wings.

Unrelated recommendation: The FAA flying books are a pretty good source and free in pdf online. I imagine they cover very little of what you'll see at UPT, but they would certainly be worth reading before IFS or taking your AFOQT. Here is one.

[Guest TacAirDrvr]

Four points:

3) "Would pay an instructor to sign me off for another 20 hours!!!" I'm going to try to not read too much into this, but I do not recommend that approach. Get with an instructor and learn what the f*** you're doing - Don't just be another weekend warrior disrupting the traffic pattern and making my life as a CFI hell. There are enough clueless ass clowns in Bonanzas doing that already. Also, you don't get signed off for hours...solo endorsements are good for 90 days.

Ok my bad, 90 days, which to me might have been about 20 hours!! The PIC for instrument gig is a great idea! Its free if the other dude pays for it!! "safety Pilot" I think is what they call it!!

[ChkHandleDn]

For the purposes of TBAS, all that matters is hours. A PPL may be considered in the selection process....I don't know how a sport pilot rating would count.

During UPT, no ones going to give a crap about previous hours or ratings. Everyone will suck equally as much.

True that no one really gives a crap, but I definitely disagree w/ you on the suck part. All of our top guys had at least a couple hundred hours and a instrument rating at the minimum. Two of the -38 guys were CFIs. Maybe it was just our class, but it definitely seemed to have given them an advantage in T-6s.

[brabus]

During UPT, no ones going to give a crap about previous hours or ratings. Everyone will suck equally as much.

Hours will only help you in UPT UNLESS you let hours go to your nugget and thus have a bad attitude...then you're fucked. It's true no one cares about how many hours you have or what ratings you have, but guys with flight time definitely have at least somewhat of a leg up.

[Masshole]

Does anyone have recommendations for books on civilian pilot training? I am foregoing ground school (for now), but would like some literature to read about what the instructor is teaching me. They suggested a $100 textbook and I would appreciate it if some of you know cheaper alternatives.

[spudsmac]

Does anyone have recommendations for books on civilian pilot training? I am foregoing ground school (for now), but would like some literature to read about what the instructor is teaching me. They suggested a $100 textbook and I would appreciate it if some of you know cheaper alternatives.

I taught using the Complete Private Pilot by ASA because it was cheap. I liked it too. <---my fav self teaching book

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Private-Pilot/dp/1560276118/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

This is the industry standard though. It's a little more expensive, but you can get a cheap used copy.

http://www.amazon.co...25529242&sr=8-2

Oh and I almost forgot. The books published by the FAA are free and they are really good also. Just google "Airplane Flying Handbook" and "Pilot Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge"

Edited January 2, 2012 by spudsmac

[nrodgsxr]

Does anyone have recommendations for books on civilian pilot training? I am foregoing ground school (for now), but would like some literature to read about what the instructor is teaching me. They suggested a $100 textbook and I would appreciate it if some of you know cheaper alternatives.

use http://www.addall.com/ to find a cheap copy

Edited January 2, 2012 by nrodgsxr

[HiFlyer]

use http://www.addall.com/ to find a cheap copy

Also, look around your area for a used book store. They sometimes have flying instruction books and they can be 50-75% off the "new" price. Amazon also sells used books on its web site.

[HU&W]

Here's the book most of the IFS syllabus was based on a few years ago. Most likely they've updated since then, but there were many pages of material that was either summarized or just cut/paste. http://www.amazon.com/Airplane-Flying-Handbook-FAA-H-8083-3A-Second/dp/1616083387/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325536717&sr=8-1

[Guest]

Holy crap, how many U-2 guys are involved with IFS?

I am foregoing ground school

Mistake.

[HU&W]

Holy crap, how many U-2 guys are involved with IFS?

I flew with at least 3 different former U-2 guys out of my ~12 flights.

[Guest]

Wow, a regular U-2 mafia in Pueblo...what have you guys got going on over there?

[sky_king]

All of the books mentioned are good for the overall aviation knowledge experience. However, if you want to learn the aerodynamics behind light airplanes, nothing beats Stick and Rudder by Wolfgang Langewiesche. Also, I agree with Rainman A-10 that avoiding ground school is a big mistake. My CFI taught me almost everything in the airplane and it cost me more money and time to learn than it would have.

[Masshole]

Thank you very much everyone. I am not going for my PPL- I was just interested in getting comfortable with flying. I should do ground school? I am not sure I have enough saved for both.

[HU&W]

Cost of ground school = 2-3 hours of flight time with instructor. Value gained by knowing how to find an altimeter and what it means = priceless.

BL, your SA will be much better and you'll get more out of each hour if you spend your flight time flying instead of trying to figure out all the things going on around you.

[nrodgsxr]

Thank you very much everyone. I am not going for my PPL- I was just interested in getting comfortable with flying. I should do ground school? I am not sure I have enough saved for both.

skip ground school and go straight to flying? penny wise, pound foolish

[Masshole]

This is all very good to know. Thank you. It looks like ground school is seven or eleven weeks long and it does not seem like I can get that done this summer. Can I do ground school and flight lessons simultaneously or is that not a good idea either? Should I not be concerned with getting hours for the PCSM score, but focus on accumulating time the summer before my last year of school? I am most worried about getting to IFS with no prior time and not knowing what to expect in the airplane.

[sky_king]

Speaking as a previous FAIP (well... once a FAIP, always a FAIP), prior civilian hours didn't necessarily equate to better performance at IFS or UPT. It was more attitude and work ethic than anything. That being said, if you're worried about your PCSM score, get the book that preps you for the written test and practice. Also, if you have a Civil Air Patrol near by, check them out. You can get quite a bit of your training at very little cost there. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that CAP is an actual military organization. As far as when to take ground school, if your school allows you to take a concurrent course, I'd do it that way.

Bottom Line:

Quantity - If you want hours to pad your PCSM, use your own strategy. It will help your hands I suppose but from what I've seen, if you've got the heart, I can teach the hands.

Quality - Get as many hours as you can with the appropriate ground schooling. Answering questions on the ground costs 1/4 of the price of answering them in the air.

Edited January 3, 2012 by sky_king

[rico]

Masshole, I take it your competing for your slot this semester?

If they no kidding changed the selection criteria mentioned a few weeks ago, getting your first few flight hours will really boost your pcsm. And it looks like pcsm makes up the bulk of the OM score nowadays...

[BQZip01]

Masshole, I take it your competing for your slot this semester?

If they no kidding changed the selection criteria mentioned a few weeks ago, getting your first few flight hours will really boost your pcsm. And it looks like pcsm makes up the bulk of the OM score nowadays...

If you want to raise your PCSM score, retake the BAT test if you think you can do better and get more hours. This will give you a much better score and better chance for a flying spot. To get a better QUALITY education, knock out the ground school. It's worth every penny.