scoobs Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 What are some of the staff jobs that are available?And what are considered good staff jobs.Also if you go to war college to do you go to a staff tour after that?And is being an instructor at the Academy or Afrotc able to fill the staff requirment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 There are a multitude of staff jobs out there. Organizations vary from Air Staff, Joint Staff, numbered Air Force. The jobs themselves vary from bean-counter, money dude, to policy and strategy types. “Good” staff jobs depend on what your desired outcome is. For promotion, Air Staff and joint staff offer the best opportunity, but usually at the greatest cost in blood and toil. Going to one of Command and Staff Colleges as a Major is a big indicator that you will go to a staff, but around 30 percent of all graduates go back to ops. Graduating from one of the War Colleges (for O-5’s and O-6’s), has about the same spread of OPS and staff assignments. My roommate last year while I was at ACSC was going through Air War College and he went back to fly. From my limited experience, the guys that graduate from War College and go back to fly are typically on the fast track, not true in all cases, but usually a big indicator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Thanks for the quick response.Is it hard to go back to ops.I know you said 30% but is it difficult do you be special person?Also how long does war college last and is it hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backseatdriver Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by scoobs: Also how long does war college last and is it hard? War college is a year long. As far as how difficult it is, I won't speculate being a lowly butter bar, but I doubt there are many who don't "pass." [ 18. October 2004, 01:10: Message edited by: backseatdriver ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 As I recall last year's Air War College class lost two people. One left when he was non-selected for O-6 (extremely rare), and another was removed for a UCMJ issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AirGuardian Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 What "Staff" position did you end up having brotha! Sorry if it was covered anywhere else, but I just got back from an air-evac run out of Germany yesterday! As for me, going back to a C-17 with just over 200 hours on her total time, is very refreshing compared to the crapola you and I had at Max together. There were some very redeemable things(family), but its good to be in the mix again! We also had a couple AFSOC guys from Hurbie come back with us. Later dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 Is going to war college considered a staff job?And if you go back to the unit to fly you said it was the fast track.Do they get to fly the rest of there career as the go up in rank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backseatdriver Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by scoobs: Is going to war college considered a staff job? No - it's a level of Professional Military Education (PME). The first level (for officers) is ASBC, then SOS, then Intermediate and Senior Service School (ISS and SSS). Most people go to Air Command and Staff College for ISS and Air War College for SSS, however there are a bunch of different programs/schools that serve to fulfill ISS/SSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 18, 2004 Share Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by AirGuardian: What "Staff" position did you end up having brotha! AG, I got picked up for SAW (USMC version of SAASS), which meant a move to DC and another year of school. Keeping in line with this thread, it looks like I will go to the Air Staff for a year, then back to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 Cleared Hot what aircraft do you fly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AirGuardian Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 CH is a spooky kind of guy. 130E's when I met him and before ACSC when we caught back up he was handing it back to the bad guys in his AC-Gunship! A good dude to have watching your back! Sorry about the Air Staff tour, its good for your future though - get back to flying and we'll slam down a few overseas somewhere! I might be able to catch up with you sometime in D.C. We drop thru Andrews and stay the night on a normal basis for the air-evac runs to Europe to bring our boyz/girlz home for better care! Can you use any of the papers we all wrote in ACSC??? doubtful - Now you have an actual "analysis/theory" paper which I'm sure is much more in-depth than our former school prompted. Keep at it man, more power to ya! You'll be running the AF soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by AirGuardian: CH is a spooky kind of guy. Ouch!…Actually a Spectre kind of guy J Originally posted by AirGuardian:get back to flying and we'll slam down a few overseas somewhere! I might be able to catch up with you sometime in D.C. PM me next time you are in DC Originally posted by AirGuardian:Can you use any of the papers we all wrote in ACSC??? doubtful - Now you have an actual "analysis/theory" paper which I'm sure is much more in-depth than our former school prompted. Keep at it man, more power to ya! You'll be running the AF soon! No we can’t use any of the papers we wrote at ACSC. I think the crap we wrote there was mainly a regurgitation of what they pummeled us with everyday, “Joint is the future, airpower rules, and we gotta have the F-22…blah blah blah.” This school is a completely different game as we only have 24 students. All of the papers are one page and one page only. Sounds great right? Typically there are 600 pages of reading for a single page paper… and you are hard pressed to work your analysis and recommendation into that small space. Our audience is supposed to be three star and above and we are constantly reminded that we need to get better. One huge plus, they bring in the experts and heavy hitters to give us the real scoop. Last month we had Supreme Court Justice Scalia. Next month General Zinni is on the schedule, the list goes on and on. Another great part of the school is the staff rides. Last month we did a tour of Civil War battlefields. I am not a big Civil War buff, but it was an outstanding trip. Walking the battlefield gives you a new perspective. As does standing at the Appomattox courthouse where it all ended. In January we are off to Europe for three weeks with stops at Verdun, Sedan, and Normandy. In the Spring we are going to Vietnam for three weeks, trips of a lifetime. Keeping with the theme of this thread, most of the Marines in the class will go work for a three star or above and my guess is at least half of them will become general officers themselves. Alas I am not in the high-speed crowd. I am more of a 20 and out kind of dude, but it has been a great experience thus far. I would encourage anyone who has the opportunity to apply for SAASS or SAW, it may be a lot of reading, but it beats working for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted October 26, 2004 Author Share Posted October 26, 2004 Is there a certain order in which you go to those schools?I also found that being an instructor at the academy or ROTC unit is a staff job.And if you picked up for the academy you still get to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Intermediate Developmental Education or IDE changed two years ago to give more opportunities for mid-level officers to go to school for a year. Currently, the USAF sends about 20-25% of each year group to school. The traditional schools consist of Air Command and Staff College, Army Command and General Staff College, Marine Command and Staff College, College of Naval Command and Staff. Each one of these schools is joint certified and you receive an accredited Masters Degree when they graduate. Additionally, there were opportunities to go to school on exchange programs with 12-15 different countries like Australia, England, and Spain. Recently, the USAF added other schools to the list to include; Joint Military Intelligence College, Naval Post Graduate School, and the Air Force Institute of Technology. AFIT is more technical in it’s degree programs and from what I heard, not a pleasant place to be. I have also heard there are more programs coming that will provide additional opportunities, possibly at public universities. All total the USAF sends about 600 majors to school each year. Once selected for IDE, you can apply for the second year program called the Advanced Studies Group (ASG). There are four programs under the ASG; The Air Force has the School of Advanced Air and Space Studies (SAASS), which has 40 students, 25 of which are USAF officers. The Army has the School of Advanced Military Studies, which has 80 students, not sure how many USAF officers, but at least a few. The USMC has the School of Advanced Warfighting (SAW), my school which has 24 students, 2 of which are USAF officers. Finally, the Navy has the Naval Operational Planner Course (NOPC), a fairly new program and I don’t know if they have any USAF officers. Hope that gives you a better idea of what is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Thanks for the great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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