Lifestyle of Helicopter Pilots

[Guest Jollygreen]

Originally posted by ET:

Could someone post a little more on what the flying/training and lifestyle is like for the CSAR H-60's. What's a typical day like?

I'm not sure if anyone can really say what a "typical" day would be for any weapon system. That goes for F-16s to B-52s to HH-60s ... each day can tend to be a little different.

But a generalization for HH-60s (and many other airframes out there) is that the units tend to work around a 1200 to 2400 cycle (as opposed to 0600-1800) due to the emphasis on night flying. Not a rule, just a generalization.

The number of hours put in on a single day also seems to vary greatly. Is it Friday and you flew the night before? You might come in at 1200 and leave at 1600. Is it Tuesday and you didn't fly yesterday, but have a 0900 go today and no flight the next day? Then you might show at 0600, fly from 0900-1300, and not get out of there until 1800 or later.

In comparison with a fighter pilot, the training missions tend to be fewer in number per week, but also tend to be longer in duration with 3.5 hrs seeming to be the norm (though many airlift/bomber crews would call 3.5 hr sortie a 'short jaunt' at best, vibrating in a seat for that long does get a little tiring).

The deployment rates really aren't the horror stories that may be floating around, but there certainly are flyers, through either their desire or bad luck, can point to 220+ days deployed in a year. The HH-60 is considered a Low Density/High Demand asset, so the 90 (and now 120) day deployments are flexible with most units opting to send folks for 45-60 days to allow them time to return and retrain before the next rotation. Please keep in mind, as with all other airframes, there are assignments that are heavy in deployments (field units) and those that are far less (flight training, some overseas assignments). During a career, you will see both ends of the spectrum. That is why an AFSC's opstempo rate might be 60 days ... but there are crewmembers out there doing 120 or so (of course, that means someone is doing zero days deployed).

As with any aircraft, you will have aditional duties that are the bane of all new pilots, but they are also a constant that must be done to keep a unit ready to fight. As a younger pilot, you'll probably find 1/2 of your time spent either flying or conducting flight related duties (flying, studies, planning, testing, flt safety meetings, learning falconview, etc) and 1/2 of your time doing non-flight related duties (paperwork, ATSO training, filling in work requests, etc).

As with other crew-served aircraft, you'll have to learn to work with and around other Airmen and their specialties to include flight engineers, gunners, and PJs. Some folks have very good interpersonal skills and won't have a problem, others will find it may take a little time to get into synch and learn to read another flyer.

So I can't really say what a typical day is. Anyone can probably tell you what they did on any one particular day ... but if you ask the same question a week later, chances are you'll get a very different answer.

Hope this helps. But remember, any job that lets you fly ... is a good job.

[ 21. June 2004, 20:57: Message edited by: Jollygreen ]

[Guest mfont]

Must a UPT student put helos as #1 on their dream sheet to get helos, or could they get them as a second or third choice? In other words, could I get helos if I didn't fully commit to them? Often times people put fighter/bomber as their #1 pick and get heavies. Could this also be the case with helicopters as their "runner up" pick?

[Guest rotorhead]

There are roughly 50 helo spots a year for AD.

Not every UPT class gets a chance for a helo.

During some drops, Vance and Laughlin might each get a helo, but Columbus, for example, might not.

There have been cases where a guy who really wants helos can't get one...similarly, there have been guys who don't want one get one. The reason for letting folks know that you desire one is for your leaders to lobby for one of the helo spots (so your class/base does not get left out). Unless AFPC and AETC gets some other inputs, the distribution will be blind and seem arbitrary. IF YOU WANT A HELO, LET SOMEONE KNOW. If you DON'T want a helo, there is no way you would be forced into one as a #2 or #3 guy, simply because there are so few dropped (there would be lots of stiff-wing assets available in the drop).

[Opie]

What do helicopter pilots do during peacetime? Do they train for war fulltime, or do they do civilian rescues, counter-drug, distaster relief, etc?

[Guest FlyingBeef]

Howdy all, I'm currently in UPT and seriously considering trying for the helo track and have a few questions to throw out. I have heard that AF helos are usually stationed with the Army rather than the AF on deployments, any truth to this? If so, how is the life with the army guys? Also, I've been doing a lot of research and the helo missions sound very exciting and rewarding, however I've never actually been in a helicopter -- any comments on how they handle/feel in comparison with a plane? Also, does anyone have any recommendations as far as what specific helicopter to try for? Appreciate the help.

[Guest AirGuardian]

They sit in their chairs at their desks and spin, pretending their tail rotor came off...

Just kidding, they train all the time from what I gather from my friends in the Rescue community. Plenty of the unit's do answer calls for civilian type rescue missions if other agencies or the Coast Guard are busy or do not have the best equipment, etc... Many times its in their mission statement to support the civil sector. The "Perfect Storm" movie captured these types of endeavors with an ANG Rescue unit. I'm sure our ANG Alaska unit, California unit and AD AF units abroad do plenty as well. Can't say enough about those boyz trained to pick us up when things go bad for us...

[Guest AirGuardian]

Guard concentrates on military type training, but fall under the state for use during emergencies within the state or across a few states if applicable. I have seen the AD folks perform the same types of missions and in foreign lands they do render assistance as well if called for! Good neighbor policy I suppose. Anyway, all units can deploy if needed during wartime or other contingencies, but they do deploy to other training areas for practice - Red Flag and international excercises and whatnot. So it may not happen as often like the AD folks, but with the needs of such a highly specialized career field the Guard like the active duty will be tasked more and more with no end in site with these limited but highly visible missions! Good equipment, good crews, great mission!

[Guest Shermanator]

Helicopter Pilots,

I am a STUD at Columbus AFB, MS. I am interested in flying helicopters. As you already know, if you want helicopters you have to request a slot and put it for your first choice (at least that is what I was "unoffically" told). Flying helicopters has always interested me, however I would like to know what roles USAF Helicopter Pilots have outside of flying and officership? Do you go to Airborne, or get other speciality training, etc? What do most helicopter pilots do after the flying stops?

Thanks for the help!

Shermanator

[Guest deweygcc]

What roles? um Fly then be an officer like the rest the of military.

You can be a DV hauler

You can be specops

SAR etc

I dont think you get airborne wings.

What do they do after flying stops?

Get a staff job, but its a bit harder as there isnt the amount of helo squadron staff level jobs.

[scoobs]

Like dewey said there are lots of opportunities.There are tons of bases to choose from.If you go Hueys you won't be deployed much.If you go rescue or specops you will probably be gone six months.Definitly sounds like fun.

[Guest Jetter2]

Helicopters have been catching my eye more and more. I was just wondering if there are many whirlybird drivers on this fourm I might be able to chat with?

Just wondering what the requirments are for flying helos for:

CG-Man they fly some NEAT helicopters, plus they seem to have a diffrent mission each time. Are they commisioned Officers like in the AF and Navy?

Army-Could someone elaborate about their helicopter program? I know you have to be a Wo, but does that mean you get some other job for the Army untill you get the Wo rank or what? I'm kinda lost.

Any pilots PLEASE feel free to IM me on AIM: Jetter2

or email me, Justin@coolaccess.net

[Guest ruckerstud]

I have some idea how the Army side works. First, you do not have to be a W to fly, there are plenty of 2Lts at Mother Rucker in training right now. Second, according to my neighbor, high school to flight school still exists, for how much longer I don't know. So, you don't have to enlist and then go to Warrant OCS. But once you are in flight school, everyone goes to Ft. Rucker. The first more or less 4 months are primary in the TH-67 (a Bell 206). Then you go to Basic Combat Skills in the OH-58D. Then you get your MDS and train up in that, total time of about 12-18 months depending on aircraft. This too may change as they are going to a new program called flight school 21, which will cut out basic combat skills. Hope this helps, any other questions, feel free to ask.

[Guest HueyPilot]

CG: Commissioned officers only...must go through CG Academy or CG OCS. I think (but not sure on this) that Academy guys do a boat or admin tour before they go to flight school. Some OCS grads go straight to Pensacola, others do a boat/admin tour first.

Basically, if you're medically qualified, do reasonably well in the USCGA or OCS, and have some civilian flying experience, you'll attend flight school at some point.

CG mission is what's cool...helicopters are nice too, but an HH-60J isn't too much different from a Navy HH-60H. The HH-65 is unique to the Coast Guard...it's a neat little helicopter, although short on power. Then they also have the new MH-68, basically an Augusta A109 Power. Cool aircraft, but a small outfit, so you'll likely fly either HH-60s or HH-65s.

As for the Army, no you don't have to be a Warrant Officer. Commissioned officers can fly to, but I'll warn you that you won't fly as much as the WOs do.

TH-67s are both VFR and IFR models...you'll get around 60 or so hours in the VFR version, then around 20 or so in the IFR version. It's a nice helicopter, but again short on power.

The news that they were doing BCS in OH-58Ds is news to me...it used to be the UH-1 and OH-58A when I went through...then they cut out the UH-1 and just sent kids through the OH-58A. And if they cut out BCS, I'd imagine that Primary would have to be longer, or the various AQC (Aircraft Qualification Course) courses would have to be longer...I can't imagine sending someone to an AQC course with only 80 hours of flying time.

Anyways...basic airframes you can fly in the Army include the AH-64, CH-47, OH-58D and the UH-60. None of them are very fancy aircraft...very utilitarian...they get the job done. My own personal preferences would be to fly UH-60s or CH-47s. Just more variety in the missions you'll fly. But if you want to sneak around in the grass and kill things, the AH-64 or OH-58 is were you need to be.

If you fly for the Army Guard, you might have another choice in the LUH...the helicopter that will replace the UH-1 Huey. I don't know much about this program, but I think the A119 Koala (a version of the A109 from the USCG) is one of the contenders.

[Guest waxgoblin]

This is an subject rarely touched here, and I'd love to hear more about it. I always read peoples websites with their journey through UPT, and theres usually somebody in the class that goes to Hueys. after huey training, what does that person do? I see that there are 64 AD pave hawks, 38 AD pave lows, and 62 AD hueys. do any of the huey graduates go straight to pave lows, or are they pretty much fed into hueys and pave hawks? does anybody have a link of a journal of a guy or gal that went the chopper route? thanks, im kinda interested now after seeing this "Elite Choppers" special on the discovery channel, with pave lows doing rolls and loops and all this crazy stuff

thanks,

waxyG

[Guest ruckerstud]

Goblin,

The answers to your questions are these:

1. After you finish up at Mother Rucker, you go to Kirtland AFB. This is for everyone, Hueys and Pave guys.

2. The way a typical drop works is one Pavelow, one or two Pavehawks and the rest of the class gets Hueys. After a 3 year Huey tour most guys will move into a tactical aircraft, sort of like a C-21 for the heavy guys.

3. To my knowledge no one has a journal up about AF helo training.

Hope this answers your questions.

[Guest waxgoblin]

cool thanks

1. where/what is Mother Rucker?

2. is a chopper class like 20 or 30 people?

3. if somebody goes into upt intending on tracking to choppers, would you suggest they go take some chopper lessons before upt, so they have a better shot at the pave low/pave hawk slots?

[UPT-hopeful]

Fort Rucker. Alabama.

http://www-rucker.army.mil/

[Guest ruckerstud]

1. As stated, Mother Rucker is Ft. Rucker Alabama.

2. A typical Air Force Helo class is about 6 people, I have seen as few a 2, but for the most part they try to keep it around 6 folks.

3. I don't know how much previous Helo experience would help. As far as I know, only one person has had any and he was a guard baby. The best advice I can give is work hard so you can be near the top of your class. This will put you in a position to track helos and then give you a better shot at a Pave. The program is designed for people with zero helicopter time, but any hours are good hours. If you have the time and money go for it, but don't live on Ramen so that you can get helo time.

[Guest rotorhead]

Here's the gouge:

Forget buying helo lessons...unless your last name is Trump, you can't afford it (at a few hundred dollars an hour), and any little piston/direct control R-22 or Schweitzer 300 is so different from a turbine/hydraulic Huey....just pay attention, study, and chairfly at Rucker...if you're really eaten up, get a copy of Army FM 1-203 Fundamentals of Flight (or purchase Principles of Helicopter Flight from BaseOps). Rotary wing aerodynamics are WAY more complicated than basic stiffwing aerodynamics...but don't get deep into the math angle, just the concepts and terms...Rucker is not going down the higher math route...

Most SUPT phase II classes have a base or two (not all) that gets a helo for track select phase III...then usually a couple of classes from phase II merge to form a Rucker class of 4-6 studs. These studs are part of an Army class of several dozen. There are a little over 50 flingwingers produced each year for the USAF.

The 38 PaveLow number is now probably reduced (by SEVERAL) due to crashes in the recent couple of years. If you are sure you want a CV-22, I'd suggest H53, otherwise, I suggest H60. If you get an H1, that's cool, too, because you will fly a lot, get quick upgrades, and in the small units you can get exposure in a variety of areas, like safety, training, curr ops, stan/eval, etc. Then you can move to H60 or H53, or stay H1 as mentioned above. In the old days, you could not go from Rucker to Andrews, but occasionally folks do now...I'd recommend against that. One of the cool things about the helo track is you can get the airframe you want either out of the chute or on the next assignment, and the WORST helo assignment is still fun! Quick history:

I'm currently an H60 IP at Kirtland...was a Rucker IP at one time...ran AFPC pipeline assignments last assignment...so I may not know the answer, but I can get it for you. Search for some of my other posts from several months ago...I gave some "advertisements" of how awesome flying helos is. Fire away with more questions!

[Guest waxgoblin]

cool!! thanks for the info i feel like a hole in the air force part of my brain has been filled

So, who flys around the PJs? the pave lows or also the hawks and hueys?

Do you have your own chopper with your name taped on the side or do you share choppers?

I see a lot of choppers in the back of heavies, so do you travel much at all as a chopper pilot?(probably not much as an IP)

Do you hope to fly a pave low one day or are you happy with the hawk?

Is getting helo track very competitive? in the past i kinda regarded helo track as the track that the kid at the bottom of the class gets (sorry heh). it seems like it would depend on the class.

If the pave hawk is a modified black hawk, what are the main modifications, and would you then consider the pave hawk a stronger helo than the black hawk?

If a fixed wing airplane's danger level was a 10 (not a 1-10 scale, its just a 10) what danger level would a helo pilot have? 15? 20?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...53j-000843b.jpg

thanks

[Guest ruckerstud]

Goblin

To answer your questions. PJs generally ride around in H60s, since that helos primary mission is CSAR. As far as the Pave Low/Pavehawk thing, there is no bad assignment in the rotorary wing world, NONE. The way tracking generally works is that one guy wants helicopters and makes it known from the day they get to Phase II. This guy will usually get helos. If two or more guys want it, it is a very tough deal because you both know you are going head to head for it. Helos fly around in heavies because that is the quickest way to get where you need to be. We travel as much as or more than anybody, unless you are a huey guy in which case you will travel, but stay in the CONUS. The Pave Hawk is a UH-60 that has had all the avionics upgraded (it has been Paved). The problem here is weight. That being said, it can do things no slick 60 would ever dream of doing like AR.

Rotorhead, I will defer to your experience on the rest of the questions. One thing for you. Since we went all blue, we do everything from day one with just the AF. The changes from when you were here are really that we learn out of AF pubs and the Hueys are ours. The IPs are probably still the same ones who were here when you were and the contact and instrument phases still run almost the same.

[Guest rotorhead]

"...Do you hope to fly a pave low one day or are you happy with the hawk?..."

Funny question...that's like asking a C-17 pilot if he hopes to fly a C-5 or is he happy in the C-17!!! Different aircraft, one bigger, one newer, etc. etc. H53 pilots love H53s and H60 pilots love H60s. I have NEVER met an H60 pilot say "he'd rather fly H53s." Different communities, different missions.

"...Do you have your own chopper with your name taped on the side or do you share choppers?..."

There is a likelihood that your name may be painted on one side of a squadron helo, but it is not "yours"...you'll fly that one, and all the others in the squadron, and all the other aviators in the squadron will fly the one with your name on it.

"...If a fixed wing airplane's danger level was a 10 (not a 1-10 scale, its just a 10) what danger level would a helo pilot have? 15? 20..."

Too generic a question. I can tell you that passengers (even AD military members) are not allowed on most helo missions, (like 99% of H60 training) which means that most folks only think helos fly H1s from point A to point B on a ROTC/USAFA camp fam ride. Other aircraft communities can take you out and show you most of what they do...we can't. In FY 02+03, we had 13 helo class A's....5 year average class A rates:

H53 15.44

H60 3.9

F16 3.3

C5 0.27

C135 0.19

Helos don't move particularly fast, but we are allowed to train in formation, at night, zero moon, 50 feet AGL, 2 miles vis....so time to obstacle is VERY minimal. Also, helos cannot "bump" each other...our wings are traveling basically at Mach 1...so a "bump" between two helos could have a Mach 2 relative closure rate between parts. Never pretty. Our playground is the playground for SA7/14/16/18 and RPGs...cheap, everyone has one, and Intel can't tell you where they are. The squadron CC has been in a class a/b, so has the DO, so have I, and we pranged a 53 here last Friday. You'd better have your feces consolidated 100% of the time.

"...Is getting helo track very competitive? in the past i kinda regarded helo track as the track that the kid at the bottom of the class gets (sorry heh)..." Depends. If you are number 4 in a phase II class and the number 3 guy wants a helo (rarely more than 1 is dropped per class per base) you're outta luck, so YES, it would seem competitive. There have been #22 out of 22 that got "stuck" with the helo, and there have been #1 out of 22 that asked for a helo. Unfortunately, until recently, there have been almost no UPT phase II pilots who had ever flown a helo, so they bad-mouthed the idea from a position of complete ignorance. If anyone steers you away, ask them how many helo assignments they've had! And BTW, promotion rates for flingwingers is AT LEAST as good as stiffwingers through 05.

Cool missions, cool equipment, no autopilot, lots of goggles and guns, and the newest copilot is not a checklist reader...he flies all of it.

[Guest waxgoblin]

awesome

so if your flying around the PJs, are you a member of the special ops, andi guess you would have that top secret clearance?

if the 60s fly the PJs, what do the 53s do? i saw a video clip of a buncha PJs jumping out the back of a 53 with a black raft into the ocean, that looked exciting

ive seen a lot of black and gold hueys flying over DC, do some people get sent to dc to fly around diplomats? when i went to DC, i was told that when you see 3 choppers flying in formation, the president is in one of them, and if theres just 1 chopper, its not the president.

[Guest rotorhead]

Marine One is the callsign of the helicopter with POTUS aboard...near DC, this is usually an H-3 (about to be replaced) and usually when POTUS visits other states, a VH-60 blackhawk is used. These are green and white, and the 3 vs 1 deception MIGHT happen. The 1HS (USAF) flies diplomats, senators, etc. around DC, but their true bread and butter is various responses to "situations". They fly dark blue, gold, and white Hueys. They do not fly POTUS.

[Guest ruckerstud]

Goblin,

If you fly a 60/53 you are part of AFSOC (Air Force Special Operations Command), with all the benefits and drawbacks that go with that. And there are also blue and white Hueys that fly around DC, these are from the 1st Helicopter Squadron, flying out of Andrews. Guys get sent there right from Rucker. Similar mission to HMX-1 (Marine One).