Lifestyle of Helicopter Pilots

[Guest pilot with luck]

Ok, I know that most of you are fixed wing pilots, but I am really looking at flying Helicopters for the Military. The question I have is as follows: What are the career ops outside of the military? Where can you find these jobs?

Respectfully,

PWL

[Guest Bushmaster]

I think you can have a career at police departments, news networks, etc, flying a chopper... I am not sure if they are using helos for agricultural purposes, that might be another option. Also Hospitals' Life Flights... These are the ones I can remember...

[ 24 July 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: Bushmaster ]

[Guest dreadlux]

Test pilot for a defense contractor, R & D for either the military or a defense contractor, Instructor pilot for the military,..... probably more.

[Guest Bushmaster]

Check this link out:

http://www.careersinthemilitary.com/index....etail&mc_id=136

[Guest duckguru]

timber harvesting, oil platform/drilling (cargo/personnel transport), hunting/fishing outfitters, fire fighting, executive transportation (rich girl/guy's chauffeur), search & rescue, sightseeing tourists......

[Guest rotorhead]

The civilian helicopter pilot jobs include: emergency medical service (EMS) which could be corporate owned or hospital owned; law enforcement which could be local police, sheriff, state police, federal (including Drug Enforcement Agency as well as US Customs); offshore oil rigs; corporate airlift; tourism (like beachfront, island, Grand Canyon, etc.); logging (slingloads); firefighting (bucket slings, water snorkel, etc.); and the general instructor pilot duties. There are also a number of military related jobs, including advisor/development/test, and government service (GS) instructor jobs, maintenance test jobs, etc.

[Guest Lightninbo]

//removed//

[Guest mrharvester]

Rotorhead - thanks for the reply. I'm headed off to UPT soon and I'm getting interested in flying helocopters. How does the career progression work for helo guys in the AF? Do most guys start off in the UH-1 or are there quite a few MH-53 and HH-60 slots available out of UPT? I'd love to do a tour in the UH-1, but would like to end up in the pavelow. Somebody told me that it's difficult to make higher ranks (O-5 or above) if you're a helo guy, is this true? What is the lifestyle like in an ops squadron on the MH-53 and the HH-60 (missions, tdy, typical day)? Is it possible/appropriate to take to your flt. commander at UPT to see if a helo slot is going to be available at track select, and if not, if he can trade with another base to get one? Thanks.

[Guest rotorhead]

Greetings! The H-1 to H-53/60 pipe changes year to year. I was an H-1 pilot my first tour, then went H-60s, but that was many years ago. When I was at AFPC a few years ago, we wanted most folks to go H-1 first, build skills, then move to H-53/60. Currently however, there are lots of folks coming through the UPT pipe, which is sapping the H-53/60 training, leaving VERY few slots each year for an H-1 to H-53/60 move. If you want an H-53, try for one out of Rucker. If you can't get one out of Rucker, you have to decide if you want to take the H-1 first tour, with PERHAPS a transition to H-53 later, or take the H-60. Don't expect any moves from H-60 to H-53 or vice versa. While there may be perhaps a single helo in the drop for each UPT T-6/37 class at each base, occasionally a base will go without one. If you want a helo, you should let your flight commander know, and request that he ask his squadron commander to forward a request for a helo up through channels to HQ AETC (who works with AFPC on drops). It is a shame when a base gets helo slots that no one wants while another base gets no slots, with a student who really wants to become a rotorhead. By the way, if ANYONE at UPT tries to talk you out of a helo, ask him how much helo time he has. Don't listen to anyone badmouth an MWS who has never flown it. As far as deployments go, there are always either AD or ARC helos in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Kadena H-60 folks also pull TDY duty (6 weeks or so at a time) in Osan.

This will sound like some kind of recruiting sales pitch, so I apologize!

USAF helicopter pilots LOVE what they do. Your assignments currently include H-1: Minot AFB, Fairchild AFB, FE Warren AFB, Malmstrom AFB, Vandenberg AFB, Andrews AFB, Yokota AB; H-53: Hurlburt Field, Mildenhall AB; H-60: Nellis AFB, Moody AFB, Davis-Monthan AFB, Kadena AB, Keflavik AB; and for all types, Kirtland AFB and UPT IP duty at Ft Rucker. As far as promotions go, AFPC can tell you white vs. black, male vs. female, pilot vs. nonrated, etc., but AFPC does NOT keep comparisons of aircraft types (because of the uproar it would cause). If anyone tells you that helo promotion rates suffer, they are not informed. As a prior AFPC insider, rest assured that the helo promotion rates to O-4 and to O-5 are at least as good as any MWS in the USAF. :cool: There are several star officers that are helo pilots, but there are not many helo wings, so the opportunities at that level are reduced. The H-60 and H-53 are CAF assets, and while we don't pull many G's, we have a great flight regime. Many airframes are getting GPS and are starting to use NVGs...we have been using both for MANY years. As a brand new copilot, YOU DON'T READ CHECKLISTS, you are expected to fly the sticks in all kinds of flight profiles, including autorotations, NVG probe and drogue air refueling, NVG formation at 100 feet through the mountains on moonless nights, hover in various roles including very challenging night water operations, fly gun patterns for GAU-2 miniguns, make massive pitch and roll evasive maneuvers at 100 feet, manage integrated FLIR, ring laser gyro INS, GPS, Doppler, color radar, integrated chaff, flare, plume detector, IR jammer, radar warning receiver, secure comm with FM, UHF, VHF, HF, LARS/PLS, SATCOM, etc., and you may even land on a USN ship! When there is a combat rescue, the helo is the centerpiece of a 50 aircraft package, all supporting the helo. The Electronically Linked Mission Overlay and MATT/HAVE CSAR receiver provide the best SA and intel in the entire package. During peacetime rescues, you get to battle the elements in very challenging profiles (like 100s of miles out over the North Atlantic, at night in bad weather, to hoist injured sailors from boats violently pitching in massive seas), etc. USAF H-53s started Gulf War 1. There is no more honorable or rewarding profession on earth than using all of your complex skills risking your life to return a fallen brethren to safety.

[Guest k181]

Thanks for all that info. I know I'm a little late on this thread, but are there any guard or reserve helo units, and if so, where? Not sure if you would know this, but what about flying guard or reserve as a WO for the Army?

And while I'm on the guard or reserve topic, what kind of weekly commitment is expected of you (this is for any airframe)? I mean, if you wanted to make it kind of a full time job, would that be possible (i guess that's obviously what AD's for), or are you limited to a certain number of days per month?

The reason I ask is that it seems like most guard or reserve guys are also civilian pilots on the side. But it seems like a regular 9-5 job would make it tough to keep your guard commitment as a pilot also.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Just off the top of my head and Rotorhead can fix it if I'm wrong, but for the Air Guard its Kulis, Alaska, Moffet NAS, Cali and Schenectady, NYork - Spelling for the 1st and 3rd? Only 3 if I recall correctly, visited 2 our of the 3 and they were all Rescue Units, very Gung-ho and now have become part of Special Operations Command (SOCOM) I won't get any deeper into your earlier questions than, Guard units are normally manned 30% full-time and 70% part-timers, if you understand the commercial requirements than you'll understand that most of the majors don't fly beyond a couple of weeks a month, leaving some time for them to have fun in the ANG units. And just a note, full-time positions are NOT like low hanging fruit = easy to pick off! We just had a guy hired full-time a few months ago who has been on the books waiting for 9 years... Not typical, but not unheard of. Doubt many land any jobs like this right off the bat unless you're a rated candidate and have something very valuable to offer - very coveted positions!

[ 11 March 2004, 02:00: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest OldGuy]

To fly as a WO for the Army National Guard you have to have been an E5 either active duty or Guard. You can't just come in as a Warrant like you can Active Army. So you'd have to enlist, spend some time as a crew chief or something, and then apply to be a Warrant Officer.

The other option to fly helo's for the Army National Guard would be to come in as an officer. It's still not guaranteed, but there's a much bigger need for Army helo pilots than for AF pilots.

Good luck.

[Opie]

With active duty CSAR units, what are the deployment times like compared to bombers, fighters, heavies, etc. i was told that helo guys (particularly AFSOC) are deployed 4-6 months out of the year. Is that accurate? Thanks a lot for your time and input

[Guest Infinotize]

I know this might be biased, but I have a question for the rotor guys, or any one who knows anything about flying as a WO in the army. How does this compareto flying AF, fixed wing or rotor? I realize bases in the army might be worse but do they do BAH and all that? Also is there a general pay difference?

[Opie]

I know there's been a lot of questions already about flying helicopters, but i was curious about how the lifestyle is with helo pilots.

I heard that helicopter pilots as a rule of thumb don't see their families for a good 4-6 months out of the year. Is that an accurate rumor? What's your take on it?

Thanks for the insight

[Guest Jollygreen]

No navs on helos.

Yes <ptui> it does seem that alot of helo pilots dip.

Deployment rates vary depending on your assignment. UH-1 in an RQF will do almost none (but are far from exempt since JSRC or other deployed duty is still very possible). A Pavelow or Pavehawk pilot doing 6 months deployed is probably common - depending on unit. But keep in mind, it isn't 4-6 months deployed for the next 10 years.

Air Force Times prints the average number of days deployed by MDS. You may want to look for a copy of it (want to say they released it a couple of months ago).

[Guest HueyPilot]

About the "jesus nut", otherwise known as the trunnion locking nut. They are safety-wired so they can only be tightened. Important thing to check is to make sure the safety-wire is wired the right way.

Next, many helicopters (especially 4- and 5-bladed helos) have more than one nut at the top. The Eurocopter AS350 series has 12, and are often called the "12 Apostles".

About being a Warrant Officer...as a warrant, your #1 job is being a pilot in your respective track. By track, I mean instructor, maintenance or safety. Everyone eventually tracks down on road. You'll also have side duties, such as working the duty desk, field sanitation, mail control officer, etc. Stupid things that seem more like an annoyance, but still gotta get done.

Another thing about Army flying, realize that the Army is a ground-oriented branch, so every Army company and battalion has organic everything...chow halls, trucks, you name it. Flying units in the Air Force only have aircraft and pilots, and the associated support personnel. Army flying units have motor pools, armories, food service folks...everything to support you in the field. So yes, you can wind up being a motor pool officer, or a chow hall supervisor aside from flying helicopters.

Army flying is unique, and interesting, but it's also got its share of pitfalls. Pay and bennies are the same across the board for all branches, so you won't see much change there. The Army isn't as good at dealing with family and standard of living issues, though. And although a WO1 makes just slightly less than a 2LT, a Major makes alot more than a CW4. So the money starts out decent, but plateaus early for warrants.

[Guest mfont]

Here's a question for all the rotorheads out there.....

How much money does an ex- military helicopter pilot make once he transitions into the civilian world, and what types of flying jobs are there available? I'm familiar with what the fixed wing world has to offer for ex-USAF pilots but I'm not sure about helos.

[Champ Kind]

I live right outside of Ft. Rucker, AL (training base for Army & AF helo pilots). Several of my friends' dads are retired Army helo pilots, and now work for private contractors and serve as flight instructors for the military. From what I understand, the pay is pretty well (I believe it is dependent on how many hours you accumulated, and what exactly you're instructing). Anyway, that's at least one post-military occupation for ya...

[Guest HueyPilot]

There are several sub-areas in the helicopter industry, and I'll delve into each for you.

Offshore: By far the largest employer of helicopters, offshore oil industry is a niche for helicopters since it offers fast resupply to oil rigs that would otherwise require long boat trips (they still make long boat trips, but the helos offer medical evacuation, quick crew swaps, and can fly in critical supplies and parts). Offshore pilots start out around $30K and can make around $70K-$80K in the US and over $100K overseas (North Sea, ME, Indonesia). Most job profiles require a 7/7 or a 14/7 work schedule (7 or 14 days on duty, 7 days off).

Corporate: Some companies have use for corporate helicopters. Most of these companies live in the crowded Northeast metro corridor (ie, Boston to DC), and use helos to get to meetings and avoid traffic. Other corporate helos are used to get to work sites not serviced or near airports. Corporate pay varies from $30K a year for a small company operating a Bell JetRanger to over $100K a year for a larger corporation flying a Sikorsky S76 in NYC.

ENG: Electronic News Gathering, or simply put, the "news chopper" is also a growing industry. Most companies operate either Bell 206/407 types or Eurocopter AS350 types. Company pay is decent but not eye-popping...typical line pilot makes around $30K-$40K, while a pilot with more senority makes around $50K. Chief pilots make around $60K-$80K. Most ENG helicopters are no longer owned by the TV station itself, rather they are leased from companies that specialize in ENG. My father used to work for one of those companies as their Director of Operations...it owned in the neighborhood of some 50 helicopters and leased them to TV stations from New York to Miami to Houston, and many places in between.

EMS: Emergency Medical Services, or an air ambulance, is probably the #2 employer of helicopter pilots in the US. The jobs are found nationwide, with some hospitals owning their own aircraft, to others outsourcing to EMS providers such as Air Methods, Inc. They typically use medium twin-turbine helicopters such as the Eurocopter BK117 or the Bell 412. Again, the pay isn't airline standard, but the job can be rewarding. Most EMS outfits will start you around $40K-$50K, and some will let you earn over that magical $100K mark. EMS operaters usually require alot of flying experience, because it's a demanding job (night special VFR to confined landing zones). Expect to need around 5,000 hours and alot of PIC time.

Logging: Another niche job, most of these jobs are in the northwest or Canada (and a few in Asia). Pay is decent...$40K-$50K to start, and some major companies pay senior pilots around $100K a year. Heli-logging usually involves a heavy-lift helo (like the Boeing Vertol 107...a civil version of the CH-46) dragging logs out of remote sites that would otherwise require expensive (and enviro unfriendly) road networks.

Fire-Fighting: The fire-fighting scene is a small group, and it takes a bit of trying to get into this "industry". Pay isn't that high...$30K-$40K most of the time, and you work long hours in dangerous conditions. But some pilots wouldn't do anything else.

Law Enforcement: Another major employer of helo pilots. From local police outfits to state police, and even the US Border Patrol and Customs, airborne law enforcement makes heavy use of helicopters. Pay depends on the outfit...some helo cops make around $30K, others alot more. Many police departments require that you be a street cop for a couple years or more, no matter how many flying hours you possess. Others will hire you right off the street and into a cockpit. The federal jobs typically will hire you directly into a pilot position, and pay you according to a GS pay scale.

Sightseeing: These pilots take tourists on tours of areas otherwise inaccessible to people...Alaska, Hawaii or the Grand Canyon. Yes, these places are "accessible", but not everyone wants to don a backpack to see the artic parks, or climb steep volcanic slopes to take in Hawaii's view. So they pay a heli-tour outfit $$$ to see it from a helicopter. Since heli-tours and noise-sensitive parks go hand-in-hand, the federal government (at the behest of a handful of enviro-nuts) has curtailed touring at some parks and required most locations to run along pre-approved routes and higher altitudes. The enviro-nuts want the industry out of business altogether, but I think it'll hang in there in some form or fashion. But these places are often known as "time-building" for pilots that did the flight instructing thing but don't have enough experience to fly for an EMS operation. Therefore pay is lower...expect around $30K a year doing this.

Helicopter Charter: This is a nebulous term used to describe all those other operations, ranging from power line patrol, pipeline patrol, wildlife tagging, aerial photography and many others. Many companies don't have a specific niche to operate in...they just charter to any customer who has need of a helicopter. These companies pay the least and offer the least job protection. But at the same time some pilots claim they have the most diverse job profile, and some offer more family stability. But don't expect to make more than about $20K to $40K doing part 135 work for a small charter outfit.

That's the helo job market in a nutshell. Big picture...you won't make airline pay flying helicopters. But then again, you won't be reduced to spending your days cruising at FL330 and flying ILS approaches either.

[Opie]

Does anyone know much about the lifestyle of a CSAR (HH-60) pilot? Next year i'm heading off to UPT (so long as i don't do something 'too' stupid) and i've heard that you have to tell your flight commander more or less right off the bat if helos is what you want. I think flying helicopters would make for an extremely exciting career but i've heard that if you want to do helos or anything in AFSOC than not to bother trying to have a family.

The dillema is that i'm getting married this fall and that would sort of be a problem with the whole family part of the equation. However the only people that have told me that are guys who are neither helo pilots or in AFSOC. Anybody in the helicopter/AFSOC side of the house have any comments about that?

[zrooster99]

I've worked in AFSOC on the maintenance side. It's a high ops tempo, but from what I've seen, there seems to be pleanty of folks with families around here. Just make sure your wife to be understands that you will be away quite a bit.

[Guest rotorhead]

There are deployments to either Afghanistan or Kuwait/Iraq, and these might be lenghthy, but not all units deploy to those spots. Moody, Nellis, and Davis Monthan hold up that end, while Keflavik and Kadena usually do not. When I was working AFPC helo assignments, I would not send a guy from Moody to Nellis (or vice versa) unless the member specifically asked. I would try to send a guy from Kef or Kadena to either Nellis or Moody, and send a guy from Nellis or Moody to Kef or Kadena. Of course, there are other locations, like IP duty at Kirtland or Rucker, and jobs for IP types at Weapons School at Nellis or the Test Unit at Nellis. In other words, Nellis or Moody or DM might be likely out of UPT, but you should not have to do another deployment unit tour after that, unless you want to. If you get Kef or Kadena out of UPT, don't be surprised if you go to a deploying unit next. By the way, 99 percent of the H-60 folks I know over 30 are married, with kids.

[Guest ET]

Could someone post a little more on what the flying/training and lifestyle is like for the CSAR H-60's. What's a typical day like?

[Guest deweygcc]

I dont know how one is expected to tell what a day in AFSOC is like.

I have to be vague again. Everyone has a different opinion on "having a life" If you WANT it to work it will. I actually know ZERO unhappy AFSOC fathers and Husbands. I'm sure someone else knows nothing but unhappy ones. I think the motto " that others may live" sums up the job pretty well.