VFR800 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) Unfortunately a 96 hour pass is the most that is authorized -- anything longer than that will require leave. Unless you go AWOL, you're not going to get 13 days on a pass no matter where you go. You are kind of screwed and there isn't much you're going to be able to fight--per diem and lodging are not authorized while on leave status unless for TDY in support of a contingency operation or an ordered evacuation (JFTR Appendix G, U4102, U7225, U7226). I was at Altus last Christmas, and for those living on base they handle this by allowing you "check out" but still keep your room during the break. You turn in your key and you aren't billed for the room, but the room is still yours (they aren't required to do this -- they do it to help you out). Since you're living off base on a non-A, this obviously isn't an option, which makes for a big inconvenience, but I don't see any way around it. I don't see any reason why you can't keep non-A if you're willing to live with the fact that you won't be re-imbursed for lodging during your leave. If you forfeit your non-A to stay on base before the break (if there's room), they should offer you the same deal whereby you can keep your room and not pay for it...at least then you'd have some place to put your stuff. Edited December 8, 2010 by VFR800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Okay not to beat a dead horse but a magic fairy dropped off a very interesting piece of literature to me today: JTFR Appendix 0 Change 288/542 current of 12/01/10. Page O-7 and O-8. Bla bla bla... J. Voluntary Return Home during Intervening Weekend/Holidays. If the AO does not authorize travel home periodically on weekends or non-workdays, it may still be performed for personal convenience. If so, reimbursement for the round-trip transportation and en route per diem is authorized, but limited to the amount of per diem the GOV’T would have paid had the traveler remained at the TDY location. Just wanted to see if this applies. I am betting due to the "if AO does NOT authorize travel..." part that since we are authorized travel on the weekends at Altus this would null and void the later part. Looking like I will have to find a place to store all my junk. Since you're living off base on a non-A, this obviously isn't an option, which makes for a big inconvenience, but I don't see any way around it. I don't see any reason why you can't keep non-A if you're willing to live with the fact that you won't be re-imbursed for lodging during your leave. Yea trying to avoid that. If I kept the hotel for the entire period of leave it would be around $1000 (77 a day for 14 days). That just doesn't seem worth it if I can weasel my way out in any other form or fashion. Edited December 11, 2010 by stoleit2x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFR800 Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 (edited) Okay not to beat a dead horse but a magic fairy dropped off a very interesting piece of literature to me today: Just wanted to see if this applies. I am betting due to the "if AO does NOT authorize travel..." part that since we are authorized travel on the weekends at Altus this would null and void the later part. When I was at Altus, they would grant authorized returns to your PDS if you simply had a letter from home indicating you were authorized to return for the holidays. All of the UPT bases I knew about had no problem writing these letters...usually talk to your flight commander or formal training shop. If you're on an authorized return, then the AO may (not shall) authorize lodging expenses at the TDY location during your authorized return. I don't know what AO would authorize such a thing if you simply return home to take leave, but if your PDS leave/pass policy is more lenient than Altus, maybe you could pursue this route. Just be aware that besides asking in advance, you don't know if your AO would approve this until you file your voucher since the JFTR states that it's at their discretion (and it lists the factors that they should consider, all of which aren't consistent with your situation). Also, the JFTR specifically states that lodging is still not authorized at the TDY location during a voluntary return to the PDS. So while you could get mileage and per diem on your way home, they aren't going to pay for you to keep lodging at Altus if you go the voluntary return route. Hope this helps...I remember reading quite a bit about this when I was there for Christmas. Edited December 11, 2010 by VFR800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoleIt Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Thanks man! Just trying to exhaust all options. Looking like everyone here at the hotel is going to have to either take a pass and only go out for 4 day stints or suck it up and take leave and move out of the hotel for two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Lets say I have a friend of a friend who: - is TDY - wants to take leave directly after his TDY - has the leave cleared by his supervisor - doesn't want to report back to his home station in between TDY and leave - doesn't want to receive UCMJ punishment How can I, ahem, he go about changing his TDY orders add the post-TDY leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 It's been a while ago, so it's a bit hazy. All I did was drop leave starting the day after my TDY, there was no amendment to my orders. When I got home I reported in and filled out my voucher noting I was on leave for the week following (so they didn't pay me per Diem). This was in the paper voucher/leave (988) days so I just put LV in the reason for stop block...not sure how to do it in DTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) It's been a while ago, so it's a bit hazy. All I did was drop leave starting the day after my TDY, there was no amendment to my orders. When I got home I reported in and filled out my voucher noting I was on leave for the week following (so they didn't pay me per Diem). This was in the paper voucher/leave (988) days so I just put LV in the reason for stop block...not sure how to do it in DTS. In DTS, you click the block showing that you are on leave for those days and make sure that no per diem is paid. Will have to file the DTS voucher showing all days from start to finish with leave days properly annotated in the per diem entitlements section. Will still need to sill out LeaveWeb to be charged for the leave, IIRC. Edited June 28, 2013 by Herk Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Thanks. Can anyone think of a valid argument why leave has to start in the local area anyway? Besides "it says so". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addict Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) Thanks. Can anyone think of a valid argument why leave has to start in the local area anyway? Besides "it says so". The local area is your place of duty. The pass area I had while at base X was "anywhere, you just have to get back to work on time Monday" I thought I had an epiphany but checked again. Your time off is either your pass or leave, but not combined so it just means I don't get 30 3-day weekends spent at the beach each year. I don't like it either. Edited June 29, 2013 by addict 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I'm pretty sure you can take leave in conjunction with a TDY, it just needs to be on your orders (so you're friend would need an amendment). I would double check on whether or not leave web needs to be done. I took leave in conjunction with a TDY (on my orders), and also submitted leave on leave web, and ended up getting double charged for my leave when my voucher was approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHAP Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Are variations authorized on your orders? If so, go on leave and deal with it when you file the voucher. LeaveWeb is not required if you log the leave in DTS. I took a week of leave after SOS and only got it cleared through my commander. I had to work an amendment to my orders when I got back to file my voucher, but everybody at my base was very helpful getting the amendment done even though it was after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Are variations authorized on your orders? If so, go on leave and deal with it when you file the voucher. LeaveWeb is not required if you log the leave in DTS. I took a week of leave after SOS and only got it cleared through my commander. I had to work an amendment to my orders when I got back to file my voucher, but everybody at my base was very helpful getting the amendment done even though it was after the fact. Variations on your orders does not mean that you can do whatever you want. This is simple...approval of the leave with an amendment to the orders is all that is needed. Be careful and just check that the leave gets charged on your LES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHAP Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Herk Driver, My point was that if his leadership approves him being on leave the "variations authorized" on his orders allow him to go back and retroactively put leave into his itinerary. I should have made that clearer in my first post. Its probably also good to point out that my unit is pretty liberal about what we approve over the phone and email, without orders or amendments to orders until well after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADFNZ Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Maybe it's the wrong answer, but in my experience, no one gives a shit when/where you take leave as long as someone knows where you're at and you don't do anything stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Maybe it's the wrong answer, but in my experience, no one gives a shit when/where you take leave as long as someone knows where you're at and you don't do anything stupid. This is the wrong answer. Google "line of duty determination". Take the time to coordinate actually being on leave in a documented manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KState_Poke22 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Maybe it's the wrong answer, but in my experience, no one gives a shit when/where you take leave as long as someone knows where you're at and you don't do anything stupid. That's highly dependent on your unit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaarman Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) This is the wrong answer. Google "line of duty determination". Take the time to coordinate actually being on leave in a documented manner. LoD determination is a CYA policy for gross negligence. It is not used for earned travel on leave, especially when people know where you are, and will have it properly documented and deducted by a travel voucher when you get back. Edited June 30, 2013 by xaarman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finance_Guy Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Herk Driver, My point was that if his leadership approves him being on leave the "variations authorized" on his orders allow him to go back and retroactively put leave into his itinerary. I should have made that clearer in my first post. Its probably also good to point out that my unit is pretty liberal about what we approve over the phone and email, without orders or amendments to orders until well after the fact. Variations authorized is not to allow leave but rather lets you variate from the originally stated TDY itinerary--only to variate to other TDY locations as the mission dictates. Leave does not always have to be amended on the orders but as others have stated, needs approval from your unit leadership and documented on the travel order. Leave before or after the TDY should not be input to LeaveWeb, just reported and shown on the final travel voucher. DODFMR Volume 9, Chapt 2: Variations Authorized. This authorization permits omission of travel to a place (or places) stated in a travel order; changes in order of travel to places shown; and travel to places not shown. It is not used in place of adequate advance planning nor is it interpreted as granting an open travel authorization. http://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/archive/09arch/09_02.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADFNZ Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 This is the wrong answer. Google "line of duty determination". Take the time to coordinate actually being on leave in a documented manner. I know exactly what LODD is. I never said to not document it your leave, but he said his Sq/CC knows he'll be gone, so just shoot him a quick leave request on leave web and call it good. Since he's been TDY, the chances his Sq/CC will care are slim to none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stract Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I know exactly what LODD is. I never said to not document it your leave, but he said his Sq/CC knows he'll be gone, so just shoot him a quick leave request on leave web and call it good. Since he's been TDY, the chances his Sq/CC will care are slim to none. If you submit for leave on leaveweb, then the "start and end in the local area" requirement applies. AND you'll be double-charged for leave when you file your voucher. As long as coord has occurred with home station, with the expectation that the DTS voucher will reflect the leave days, then that should be sufficient for any LoDD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOF_ATC Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Im separating late next year and I'm trying to figure out if terminal leave begins the day you depart your duty station or the date you arrival at your HOR. Technically if you don't take terminal leave, you get X number of paid travel days prior to your DOS. Wouldntbuou still get those days and they wouldn't be chargeable leave days correct? Anyone have expwrience with this or can provide a reference. I can't find it in AFI 36-3003 or the JFTR or via Google. Any help appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) The AFI is literally the first page that comes up when I google "AFI 36-3003." I'd link for ya but am on my phone. Try again if all you need is the AFI. Edited December 3, 2013 by nsplayr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOF_ATC Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Yea I already read through AFI 36-3003 as I said and couldn't find the info I needed which is why I turned here to see if anyone else knew the protocol for this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Talk to finance, but I am fairly certain that you get the travel days plus your terminal days and that computes your final out date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsplayr Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Yea I already read through AFI 36-3003 as I said and couldn't find the info I needed which is why I turned here to see if anyone else knew the protocol for this situation Ah, reading comprehension fail on my part. Good luck, I'll be asking the same question in 6-9 months so if you hear a real answer definitely post what you get told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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