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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

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15 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

USAF pilot bonuses also effect the other services as they have to match, sort of.  And the Army could care less about their pilot retention. They will “still be the Army without pilots”

This is really the root cause. Helicopters are a “nice to have” for the Army; their leadership comes from infantry and would never admit they need aviation to win a force-on-force conflict. Raptor pilots, on the other hand, are no shit required for America to win a war vs a peer enemy. Obscene helicopter losses are sustainable; fighter jet losses aren’t. Air Force leadership knows that, but for whatever reason doesn’t have the political clout or will to articulate this in a Joint environment or publicly in front of Congress.

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4 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

It’s not like Congress is on board to pay more either. 

If only there was someone who represented the AF’s needs to Congress. 🤷🏾‍♂️

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8 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

....Obscene helicopter losses are sustainable; fighter jet losses aren’t. Air Force leadership knows that.....

WTF over?.... I love when FW dudes treat us like disposable assets. You do realize that it takes years ( just like a pointy nose driver ) to develop a solid helo IP? Just because the Big Green doesn't have SA on their manning issues doesn't make us worthless. 

Edited by norskman

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If your still waiting on the AF to address retention I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you. 

Anyone heard from the ACTF in the last 6 months? I think they may have given up after the 69 initiatives bumper sticker that never went anywhere.

Based on recent testimony from AF management to the Hill even despite the T-6 OBOGS issues we still produced 1211 pilots last year and with increased production are on track to meet 95% of pilot manning by FY 22-23.  I find it hard to believe myself, but seems to resonant on the Hill.  I keep hoping the AF will ask for larger bonus/incentive authority for aviators, but magic 8 ball says “outlook not good.”

I cringe to think about overall aviation experience levels 6-10 years from now if all we do is continue to focus on growing our way out of this.  Unfortanately, mishaps are a lagging indicator and will have 2-3 different CSAFs by then, so why worry about it now? 

 

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28 minutes ago, Pretty_Darn_Good said:

If your still waiting on the AF to address retention I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you. 

Anyone heard from the ACTF in the last 6 months? I think they may have given up after the 69 initiatives bumper sticker that never went anywhere.

Based on recent testimony from AF management to the Hill even despite the T-6 OBOGS issues we still produced 1211 pilots last year and with increased production are on track to meet 95% of pilot manning by FY 22-23.  I find it hard to believe myself, but seems to resonant on the Hill.  I keep hoping the AF will ask for larger bonus/incentive authority for aviators, but magic 8 ball says “outlook not good.”

I cringe to think about overall aviation experience levels 6-10 years from now if all we do is continue to focus on growing our way out of this.  Unfortanately, mishaps are a lagging indicator and will have 2-3 different CSAFs by then, so why worry about it now? 

 

Easy there. The “C” in ACTF is no more. It’s considered a no no word these days.

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20 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Gents, the USAF will not improve the way it treats people.  It doesn’t care about you.  They hear your comments, and don’t care enough to pay you better or change their policies.  People on these forums are generally aircrew with a culture of caring about results. The Air Force does not care about your results and they don’t care that you care about results. They just want you to act happy and smile and have a thin waist, they do not care if you lose wars.  The sooner you grasp the nature of our service culture the sooner you can be at peace with your decisions within it, or your decision to leave it.

 

See the source image

Edited by brickhistory

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Chief Wright posted this quote on his FB and now I understand the AF’s pilot shortage strategy!
“Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.”

This is the kind of junk you get from someone that works hand in hand with fingers. We won’t get anywhere with Fingers at the helm. Quick someone give him a private sector advisory job that gives him the label VP, gives him 250k a year, and allows him not to show up for work. (Pretty much what he does now). Schwartz still owns some blame for a lot of this backwards culture we have now.
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2 hours ago, Guardian said:


This is the kind of junk you get from someone that works hand in hand with fingers. We won’t get anywhere with Fingers at the helm. Quick someone give him a private sector advisory job that gives him the label VP, gives him 250k a year, and allows him not to show up for work. (Pretty much what he does now). Schwartz still owns some blame for a lot of this backwards culture we have now.

I really hope he goes to fly for Delta 🤣

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13 hours ago, norskman said:

WTF over?.... I love when FW dudes treat us like disposable assets. You do realize that it takes years ( just like a pointy nose driver ) to develop a solid helo IP? Just because the Big Green doesn't have SA on their manning issues doesn't make us worthless. 

No, I personally don’t think you’re disposable. I respect the hell out of helo guys.  My guess above is that the Army historically views helo drivers as more disposable than the Air Force does. Several hundred helicopters lost in Afghanistan; 5600 in Vietnam. The AF saw similar Vietnam losses (2200) and started a lot of work (to include the Weapons School) to Fix the problem. My perception is that the Army didn’t do as much because aviation isn’t what their leadership cares the most about. They can accept obscene helicopter losses more than the AF can accept obscene fighter losses. Thus they care even less about retaining their pilots and don’t want to pay them more.

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So to summarize, if you’re at the end of your commitment and you like what you’re doing and where your career is going and the lifestyle fits your family, sign the bonus and enjoy the ride. If not, there is no miraculous turn around on the horizon, punch and be proud of your service. 

The future fix is production, higher ups are looking at the data and it’s too long gone to pump resources in the outflow to right that ship. They are betting ops tempo turns down and the pivot to near peer brings more tdys and training to places that aren’t a worthless sandbox so us sheep don’t complain as much. 

All those things that tactical level value ie experience gained from real world application is just an FTL or K code on a spread sheet to them. Need more? Waive the requirements increase production.

Production solutions stands as the easiest to them and most profitable to the defense industry and will be the mantra as long as they have a budget friendly to them. 

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1 hour ago, LookieRookie said:

The director of the ACTF will be doing an AMA on Reddit on 4 April.

 

 

 

As you see, no more “Crisis” in the ACTF.

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1 hour ago, Sprkt69 said:

As you see, no more “Crisis” in the ACTF.

Not if you read his bio. Says his job is head of the “Aircrew Crisis Task Force”.

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5 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

The director of the ACTF will be doing an AMA on Reddit

Smart doing it on Reddit. Pilots will be less inclined to discuss pay in public especially in front of other AFSCs and enlisted who don’t have such a large wage gap on the outside.

I wonder why they don’t have AMAs over medical officer’s retention?

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3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Not if you read his bio. Says his job is head of the “Aircrew Crisis Task Force”.

The Bio is current as of Aug 2018. Taking out the “Crisis” is a much newer thing because “Crisis” is much too negative.

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1 hour ago, Klepto said:

Smart doing it on Reddit. Pilots will be less inclined to discuss pay in public especially in front of other AFSCs and enlisted who don’t have such a large wage gap on the outside.

I wonder why they don’t have AMAs over medical officer’s retention?

Not me.  I'll discuss it all day long.  

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1 hour ago, Klepto said:

Smart doing it on Reddit.

Ah. This is the same day Sec. Wilson and Gen. Goldfein give their testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee. So this AMA is damage control. Makes sense now.

Edited by Klepto

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11 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Several hundred helicopters lost in Afghanistan

Wait, what?  Do you have a link to support this claim?

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11 hours ago, Klepto said:

.

I wonder why they don’t have AMAs over medical officer’s retention?

Medical officers are completely necessary, but it’s not called the Doctor Force.

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8 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Dude, did you even read your own source?  You're not even close to several hundred.  

Yes. This study cited by the Wikipedia links above says 375. Maybe it’s wrong, maybe our definitions of “several” vary. It also says only 2100 helos were shot down in Vietnam, so who the fuck knows.

Either way, my original point stands. Pilot losses aren’t as damaging to the Army as they are to the Air Force.

https://vtol.org/files/dmfile/rotorcraftSafetyPaper1.pdf

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31 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Maybe it’s wrong

Correct.

Didnt 'several hundred' helicopters lost in Afghanistan seem just a 'little' bit high to you?

And if you don't think the Army is concerned about their pilot shortage as well then you're wrong.  The Army gives a higher annual bonus to Apache pilots than some AF fixed wing pilots.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/09/05/army-paying-out-35000-bonuses-reduce-apache-pilot-shortage.html

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3 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Medical officers are completely necessary, but it’s not called the Doctor Force.

And yet they are compensated better. Interesting!

Edited by Klepto

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