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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

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Dogs-N-Guns    2

 

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:


Are the 1, 2, 5, 9, and 13 yr options broken out or all lumped together?

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

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Mojo    0
15 hours ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

 

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

Over 75% of the total Long contracts are from the Early Enrollees who signed contracts in FY16 and are now getting screwed.  This is from the BBP from HAF/A1P on the "Bonus Shenanigans" the Early Enrollees face:
"FY16 program, as approved, didn't mention that additional service was required to renegotiate. The governing statute and DoDI at the time did not specifically authorize renegotiation even though the AF approved that provision in the FY16 program."

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ThreeHoler    413
On 7/30/2017 at 2:37 PM, HU&W said:

AMC/CC is looking at implementing a fly-only track.  Probably capped at O-5 and 20 years.  4-5 year PCS cycle.  Flying only.

 

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html

If you read it critically, nothing changes. "Maybe make O-5." "3-4 years" when they are already supposed to be that. "Dream sheet final assignment" when we have to fill out an ADP every time we're on the VML.

Smoke and mirrors, fellas...or better "same shit, different day." Move along.

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Duck    852
3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

If you read it critically, nothing changes. "Maybe make O-5." "3-4 years" when they are already supposed to be that. "Dream sheet final assignment" when we have to fill out an ADP every time we're on the VML.

Smoke and mirrors, fellas...or better "same shit, different day." Move along.

I'm glad you said that because the way I read it I came to the same conclusion. "okay so basically nothing changes except for the fact that you have said that you are changing something". A lot of "Ifs, Maybes and Looking intos".

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Lord Ratner    381

It's a shit idea. So we're going to create a system where you have to decide early in your career that you want to be a leader and do a bunch of non flying stuff to get there? How is that different from the current system where you decide early in your career that you want to be a leader and do a bunch of non flying stuff to get there?

I don't trust a pilot who wants to be a general when they are still a copilot/wingman. I see no reason to codify our shitty system of early identification with a policy letter.

I want to see the exact opposite. Promotion boards will only consider the past 3-5 years of service. Create a system where if a good pilot realizes late in her career she has a knack for leading and a desire to make a difference, she isn't shackled by her decision to focus on tactical proficiency and combat hours as a young Captain

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sqwatch    404

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

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Snooter    102
10 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I don't trust a pilot who wants to be a general when they are still a copilot/wingman. I see no reason to codify our shitty system of early identification with a policy letter.

But Lord help you if you want to be an airline pilot following your commitment.  

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Karl Hungus    296
1 hour ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

Why does the AF/military think it has a monopoly on "leadership"?  If anything, very little real "leading" happens in the AF- mostly just management in a leadership position.  Plenty of opportunities to "lead" outside of the AF, despite what it wants you to think.  

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Gazmo    101
Yea I agree in the recent article general everheart talked about "trying" to do some of the things we have been talking about for decades. I read a 1989 ACSC paper about pilot retention that was pretty hilarious. But the things he offered were short of what needs to be done. One example is the shift from 2-3 yrs to 3-4 yrs. That's nothing! How about 5-7 yrs at the same base? That's a real change. I was at my previous base 4 yrs, so how is this a big change?? I truly feel they are not full into the change mindset yet. Because if they were the second Gen grosso told the congressional committee on CSPAN in may that the AF was over 1500 pilots short and getting shorter the other branches generals would have been excused and the rest of the hour would have been spent on real talk not talking points....2019 is my decision year and I'm really amazed of how much talk is happening but nothing in the flying Sqs really are changing. But time will tell. Leadership doesn't need to be stingy right now on any front. More CSS troops, more bonus, more time on station, and less non flying deployments for pilots. Or the exodus will continue. CNN: Airlines are projecting hiring 5800 new pilots per year for the next 20 years.....
5,800? Was that a typo? The number is a hell of a lot larger than 5,800. I had thought it was upwards of 30,000.

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nunya    206
13 minutes ago, Gazmo said:
On 7/30/2017 at 8:51 PM, sling-it-17 said:
 CNN: Airlines are projecting hiring 5800 new pilots per year for the next 20 years.....

5,800? Was that a typo? The number is a hell of a lot larger than 5,800. I had thought it was upwards of 30,000.

Per year?  5,800 might be a little low if you count EVERY airline, but the big 6 are good for around 4k/yr.  Certainly nowhere near 30k/yr.

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ViperStud    229
2 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

The issue isn't wanting to be a leader, its dudes bending over backwards to check boxes and play the game when they should be studying and becoming lethal in their airframe as Capts. I've seen FAIPs/wingmen burning midnight oil to finish their AAD and people climb all over each other to be the Asian Pacific Islander month POC, no shit. 

We want leaders. We don't want tools who just play the game. The best solution: change the game.

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raimius    50
On 7/31/2017 at 4:43 PM, Dogs-N-Guns said:

 

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

Well, there wasn't a lot of "wow" to it, IMO.  They didn't even correct for inflation from the last time the bonus changed.

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matmacwc    1,093

The CAF porch page on FBook just put an update about dudes who have run out or didn't take can now take it.  Don't.

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SnapLock    46
1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

The CAF porch page on FBook just put an update about dudes who have run out or didn't take can now take it.  Don't.

Yeah, no joke! Don't fall for it gents. Big Blue sure didn't care about the bonus or retention for what? The last 20 or so years. Now they are freaking out and the fact that we are all bailing is not going to make life better for those who stay. It's a trap!

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Azimuth    353
22 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

It's not frowned upon.  However history has shown us in the USAF that being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is sometimes synonymous with being a good leader.  Are there exceptions?  Sure.  However not being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is synonymous with being a terrible leader.

If you want to be a leader as a young punk, go for it, you had just better be great in your AFSC.  It's the "well make sure you only fly once a month so you can be the OG or Wing Exec" type mentality that people are tired of.  People are tired of the less talent getting the promotions and self-describing themselves as "leaders" and Commanders.  The talent right now is leaving the USAF.  The people who are less talented and/or too close to retirement are the ones that stay.  The less talented ones are the ones who are scared to get out, and then try to guilt trip and scare other people to stay in.  They're scared because they know they won't do well in the post-USAF world.   

Want to look at leadership?  Look at Apple.  That company invests a TON of time and energy developing people as leaders.  I've even had a great Wing Commander when I was stationed at Altus who learned a lot about leadership during his fellowship in Cupertino.

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/988062/brigadier-general-william-a-spangenthal/

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pawnman    675
8 hours ago, SnapLock said:

Yeah, no joke! Don't fall for it gents. Big Blue sure didn't care about the bonus or retention for what? The last 20 or so years. Now they are freaking out and the fact that we are all bailing is not going to make life better for those who stay. It's a trap!

We did it to ourselves by telling anyone who would listen that it wasn't about the money.

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SnapLock    46
4 hours ago, Azimuth said:

It's not frowned upon.  However history has shown us in the USAF that being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is sometimes synonymous with being a good leader.  Are there exceptions?  Sure.  However not being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is synonymous with being a terrible leader.

If you want to be a leader as a young punk, go for it, you had just better be great in your AFSC.  It's the "well make sure you only fly once a month so you can be the OG or Wing Exec" type mentality that people are tired of.  People are tired of the less talent getting the promotions and self-describing themselves as "leaders" and Commanders.  The talent right now is leaving the USAF.  The people who are less talented and/or too close to retirement are the ones that stay.  The less talented ones are the ones who are scared to get out, and then try to guilt trip and scare other people to stay in.  They're scared because they know they won't do well in the post-USAF world.   

Want to look at leadership?  Look at Apple.  That company invests a TON of time and energy developing people as leaders.  I've even had a great Wing Commander when I was stationed at Altus who learned a lot about leadership during his fellowship in Cupertino.

http://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/988062/brigadier-general-william-a-spangenthal/

I agree and disagree. Yes, we want the best at what they do to be our leaders, but I think we are missing a step. Just because someone is good at what they do doesn't mean they will be a good leader. Frankly, I think this is part of the reason why we are in this mess. From my observations we have ended up three types of leaders in the Air Force. 1. Those who suck in the jet but knew how to play the game and checked the right boxes. These types are often group or wing execs when they hit their promotion board. 2. Highly competent and tactical aviators who look good on paper. However, sometimes these types are arrogant and are climbing the ladder. These are the ones who throw their people under the bus to get where they want to go. These are often the toxic leaders. 3. Competent and tactical aviators and leaders who get it right. In my experience these are the ones I want to follow, but they are becoming more and more rare.

Part of the reason why I punched is because of the leaders. I got really sick of having commanders that thought that their sh!t didn't stink.

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nsplayr    599

The bonus PSDM was corrected again today (change 3) and now includes bonus options for non-contracted and contract-expired aviators. Maybe someone out there is listening finally...

Not sure on the ROE of posing the actual doc here but it's out there on the portal...PSDM 17-39 corrected 4 Aug 17.

New Details

  • Tier 1 (11Fs) who never entered into a bonus contract and UPT ADSC is expired: 5, 9 or up to 24 YAS payments of $35,000 per year
  • Tier 1 previously signed a bonus contract that is expired: contract at min up to 22 YAS and max 24 YAS @ $35K
  • Tier 2 (11B/11S/11M) who never entered and UPT ADSC expired: 5 or 9 years @ $30K
  • Tier 2 previously signed but expired: same as Tier 1 but @ $30K
  • Tier 3 (11R/11H) who never entered and UPT ADSC expired: 5 years @ $28K
  • Tier 3 previously signed but expired: same as Tier 1 but @ $28K
  • Tier 4 (11U/12U/13U/18X): 5 years @ $35K if UPT/URT ADSC expires in FY17

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ihtfp06    291

I wish instead of 9, they offered a bonus to 20 years service. As I was casual for a year, 9 would take me to 21. I don't want to stay to 21, but I don't really want to leave 120k on the table by only taking the 5

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Bergman    229
5 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

I wish instead of 9, they offered a bonus to 20 years service. As I was casual for a year, 9 would take me to 21. I don't want to stay to 21, but I don't really want to leave 120k on the table by only taking the 5

Hope you had fun during that casual year!  Because it looks like you blew about $10k a month doing it! hahaha.  That's a shitload of hookers and blow.  Or so I've heard.

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ihtfp06    291
Hope you had fun during that casual year!  Because it looks like you blew about $10k a month doing it! hahaha.  That's a shitload of hookers and blow.  Or so I've heard.

I hate you.
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pawnman    675
8 hours ago, nsplayr said:

The bonus PSDM was corrected again today (change 3) and now includes bonus options for non-contracted and contract-expired aviators. Maybe someone out there is listening finally...

Not sure on the ROE of posing the actual doc here but it's out there on the portal...PSDM 17-39 corrected 4 Aug 17.

New Details

  • Tier 1 (11Fs) who never entered into a bonus contract and UPT ADSC is expired: 5, 9 or up to 24 YAS payments of $35,000 per year
  • Tier 1 previously signed a bonus contract that is expired: contract at min up to 22 YAS and max 24 YAS @ $35K
  • Tier 2 (11B/11S/11M) who never entered and UPT ADSC expired: 5 or 9 years @ $30K
  • Tier 2 previously signed but expired: same as Tier 1 but @ $30K
  • Tier 3 (11R/11H) who never entered and UPT ADSC expired: 5 years @ $28K
  • Tier 3 previously signed but expired: same as Tier 1 but @ $28K
  • Tier 4 (11U/12U/13U/18X): 5 years @ $35K if UPT/URT ADSC expires in FY17

12Bs, continue to fuck off.  The bonus they did release this year included exactly 4! people in my airframe.

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Disco_Nav963    98
1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

24?

IIRC it was 24 12Bs overall... Take out two that belong to AFMC, and adjust for the fact that the B-52 community has 133% as many squadrons as B-1s and 150% as many 12Bs per crew, I could easily see there only being 4 bonus-eligible B-1 WSOs.

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