Jump to content
Guest JArcher00

Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

Recommended Posts

Motofalcon    28

Here's a question, since I am actually considering making a deal with the devil:

When does the ADSC start?  The only thing I can find is in the PSDM:

"AvB agreements will be effective on the later of the two following dates:

Officer's FY2017 eligibility date

Day officer applies for the agreement"

So since I am already past my UPT adsc, does that mean the day I submit my application (as soon as tomorrow) is when my 1 year starts?  Just don't want to submit, and then in two months when the form has been screwed up & corrected multiple times, and then finally signed by me, THAT'S when my extra year starts.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Homestar    360
Just now, Motofalcon said:

 

So since I am already past my UPT adsc, does that mean the day I submit my application (as soon as tomorrow) is when my 1 year starts?  Just don't want to submit, and then in two months when the form has been screwed up & corrected multiple times, and then finally signed by me, THAT'S when my extra year starts.

 

The date is the first date your application is accepted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pawnman    675
5 hours ago, 3PAARO said:

OH boy...sounds like code for converting them to "12X required".

That should work out lie an absolute champ, because we apparently only need 22x 12X's anyway.

 

Well, they won't have very many 12X with a bonus commitment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
di1630    450

I want to know who the first dumb bastard is that accepts the 13 year option.

After 20 yrs you get a ~50k per year bonus for doing nothing.




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ihtfp06    291
I want to know who the first dumb bastard is that accepts the 13 year option.

After 20 yrs you get a ~50k per year bonus for doing nothing.




Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

Probably someone who has aspirations to make O-6. If they're twice passed over they can get out of the bonus ADSC and retire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sling-it-17    4

as someone who is coming up on eligibility soon....this is weak. I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments. No real change. People in the flying community want to talk about wanting more money as a bad thing. I don't think so and I totally agree it is the easiest thing to fix right now, but its not an either or. Flyers deserve both!!!!! A great bonus that makes them feel appreciated and also the better QOL and QOS talking points we have all heard. But we all know talk is cheap, so until then I want real bonus improvement, not a failed attempt to keep up with inflation.....sad. I also looked into the flight pay approval in the NSDA in section 613 i believe--flight pay can go up to 1k. So thats a 150 bump from the current 850....wow!!!!! smh! Apparently they are implementing this sometime this summer. The question is this: How are we letting fighter pilots that costs 6 million a piece to create walk away. Bc we want to quibble over a 10k/ year bonus bump when it should be atleast a 75k/yr to show they are appreciated  while the AF gets the other stuff fixed....The 11M community is full steam ahead to the pilot shortages of 11F with no improvements in sight. Looks like i might be a 1-2 yr bonus taker too:) I see this getting worse, especially with no current changes in the FY 18 budget proposal...smh. In all, we COULD have both, but I guess the AF is waiting out the economy like in the past....With all major carriers hiring 6-700 pilots a year for the next decade---bold move cotton.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sqwatch    404
as someone who is coming up on eligibility soon....this is weak. I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments. No real change. People in the flying community want to talk about wanting more money as a bad thing. I don't think so and I totally agree it is the easiest thing to fix right now, but its not an either or. Flyers deserve both!!!!! A great bonus that makes them feel appreciated and also the better QOL and QOS talking points we have all heard. But we all know talk is cheap, so until then I want real bonus improvement, not a failed attempt to keep up with inflation.....sad. I also looked into the flight pay approval in the NSDA in section 613 i believe--flight pay can go up to 1k. So thats a 150 bump from the current 850....wow!!!!! smh! Apparently they are implementing this sometime this summer. The question is this: How are we letting fighter pilots that costs 6 million a piece to create walk away. Bc we want to quibble over a 10k/ year bonus bump when it should be atleast a 75k/yr to show they are appreciated  while the AF gets the other stuff fixed....The 11M community is full steam ahead to the pilot shortages of 11F with no improvements in sight. Looks like i might be a 1-2 yr bonus taker too:) I see this getting worse, especially with no current changes in the FY 18 budget proposal...smh. In all, we COULD have both, but I guess the AF is waiting out the economy like in the past....With all major carriers hiring 6-700 pilots a year for the next decade---bold move cotton.

So it's about the money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Duck    852

My perspective is that if they COMPLETELY fixed the QOL/culture/toxic leadership, etc. They wouldn't have to pay people to stay (or pay much). Conversely, if they decided to keep going the way things are, they could fix the problem by paying their way out of it. Something like a $1million upfront bonus and I almost guaran-damn-tee you that even someone as cynical as I would have to rethink my plans. So since you really can't do either to the extreme the best bet is to make a concerted effort to fix the things that we have been squawking about for the last 10 years and up the bonus to grab the fence-sitters.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see like many have mentioned, a lot of 1-2 yr bonus takers running with their current ADSC commitments.


The 1-2 year option may be a boon for those seeking the airlines, especially if they are non-current or not competitive for a legacy carrier at the end of their UPT ADSC. Those folks could sling gear for a regional for $38K/year or keep flying for Big Blue for $150K/year with the bonus. I know which one I'd choose to build my resume, especially if I was in a line flying squadron.

A 1 year bonus ADSC would preserve the 7-day option for a PCS while keeping the 365 risk (window) small. Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MooseAg03    127


The 1-2 year option may be a boon for those seeking the airlines, especially if they are non-current or not competitive for a legacy carrier at the end of their UPT ADSC. Those folks could sling gear for a regional for $38K/year or keep flying for Big Blue for $150K/year with the bonus. I know which one I'd choose to build my resume, especially if I was in a line flying squadron.

A 1 year bonus ADSC would preserve the 7-day option for a PCS while keeping the 365 risk (window) small. Thoughts?


Agreed, but still very vulnerable to a non-flying 179 which would eat up most of that year and not give much additional flight time to increase competitiveness for the majors. As stated above, your SURF will show your bonus ADSC and thus advertise your level of commitment to upper management.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dogs-N-Guns    2
2 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

Agreed, but still very vulnerable to a non-flying 179 which would eat up most of that year and not give much additional flight time to increase competitiveness for the majors. As stated above, your SURF will show your bonus ADSC and thus advertise your level of commitment to upper management.

Wouldn't the lack of any bonus ADSC on your SURF send the same message? If you have a 1-2 yr PCS ADSC might as well take the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MooseAg03    127

True, but my lack of ADSC will also shortly be followed by the setting of a separation date. I would only consider a one year bonus if it was $50k


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FlyinGrunt    163

We talked about it at KCVS, given the state of affairs.  I said 500K, after taxes, to stay at Cannon.  Per year.

300K after taxes even if you got me to Hurby.

I then outlined, based on nominal cost to train a new "pilot" (new CP) to replace me, that offering a bonus bringing pay to 300K a year for IP/EPs would actually save the Air Force money.

To my knowledge, no one listened.  

I'm voting with my feet.  Please allow me to illustrate with a slightly modified quote from Braveheart: "You've been so busy squabbling for the scraps from [the Air Force's] table that you've missed your God-given right to something better!"

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FourFans130    116
1 hour ago, FlyinGrunt said:

I'm voting with my feet.  Please allow me to illustrate with a slightly modified quote from Braveheart: "You've been so busy squabbling for the scraps from [the Air Force's] table that you've missed your God-given right to something better!"

This.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sling-it-17    4
On 6/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, sqwatch said:


So it's about the money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes in regards to its the quickest way to show real appreciation and possibly signal real change is coming. It will "buy" some time while the other initiatives are being fixed. Its not QOL/QOS fixes OR a better bonus, but this is how some try to frame the argument. I want big blue to show how valued aviators are and also fix the squadron/ops issues (but this one will take some time to see). But to someone's point earlier, it is very clear they are trying to do the bare minimum to just get over the min retention metric they are trying to hit. Crazy talk to get too many people willing to stay in!!! Cant have that! But with the current environment it actually is crazy to think that we would come close to have pilots wanting to stay in over the min retention level needed. In my squadron, of a lot of guys coming up on the decision (20-30 Majors) , I would say 10-15% are saying they are staying in. I hear some saying maybe a 1 yr bonus concurrent with their PCS ADSC. THAT'S IT. My advice is to everyone to not take the 5-9 yr bonus because (take the 1-2 with the option of a re-up bonus), the AF is going to have to come to the table with more in the next 2-3 yrs bc this is weak and has not even caught up to inflation---- if your wanting/willing to stay in that is! 

Money is not everything, I agree--but last time I checked pilots aren't jumping ship to make pennies in 3 yrs with the airlines....more to the tune of 150-200k a yr. Money will always be in the equation when people have families to think about. Especially when they have already served their country for 12 years.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BFM this    310
On 6/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, sqwatch said:


So it's about the money?
 

It's not just about the money.  Money is in line with the rest of the issues plaguing this job.  Money is just the easiest, most tangible, identifiable symptom of a broader malaise.  My thesis is this: if there was a way to graph other QoL (home and work) indicators, they would roughly correlate. 

We are paid substantially less than we were roughly twenty years ago, in two specific categories:

1) Flight pay

2) ACP

Both of those pays have remained stagnant to inflation for over two decades.  $1k / $35k doesn't nearly cover the spread.  If those two pays were at least adjusted for inflation, the remaining issues would at least change in perspective.  But until that happens, we are essentially negotiating low cost items.  Pushing sleeves up?  Ancillary duties?  Fewer/clickable CBTs?  These are just low/no cost gimmes.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nsplayr    599

Captain Goldfein's > 6 year ACIP tier paid $650 per month in 1990 while he was flying Vipers at Shaw. That's exactly the same as it pays for Captain Bagadonuts today in 2017.

Until now-General Goldfein can secure an ACIP of at least $1,216 for that same tier today, the Air Force and Congress are kidding themselves when they say they're trying hard to retain mission-critical aviators. Welcome to America, dollars are a sign of what we value, and we're valued a lot less as an aviator than our predecessors were in 1990. 27 years of purchasing power lost due to inflation is a real bitch when you actually stop and think about it.

Increasing the bonus $10K per year? ACIP staying the same unless I missed the memo on that one? Good luck with that gentlemen.

Edited by nsplayr
  • Upvote 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jathor    2
3 hours ago, sling-it-17 said:

Yes in regards to its the quickest way to show real appreciation and possibly signal real change is coming. It will "buy" some time while the other initiatives are being fixed. Its not QOL/QOS fixes OR a better bonus, but this is how some try to frame the argument. I want big blue to show how valued aviators are and also fix the squadron/ops issues (but this one will take some time to see). But to someone's point earlier, it is very clear they are trying to do the bare minimum to just get over the min retention metric they are trying to hit. Crazy talk to get too many people willing to stay in!!! Cant have that! But with the current environment it actually is crazy to think that we would come close to have pilots wanting to stay in over the min retention level needed. In my squadron, of a lot of guys coming up on the decision (20-30 Majors) , I would say 10-15% are saying they are staying in. I hear some saying maybe a 1 yr bonus concurrent with their PCS ADSC. THAT'S IT. My advice is to everyone to not take the 5-9 yr bonus because (take the 1-2 with the option of a re-up bonus), the AF is going to have to come to the table with more in the next 2-3 yrs bc this is weak and has not even caught up to inflation---- if your wanting/willing to stay in that is! 

Money is not everything, I agree--but last time I checked pilots aren't jumping ship to make pennies in 3 yrs with the airlines....more to the tune of 150-200k a yr. Money will always be in the equation when people have families to think about. Especially when they have already served their country for 12 years.

Don't forget that that reup will come with its own ADSC.  Early eligible found that out the hard way this year.  Sign up early you can get renegotiate, but it adds an extra year of service commitment without the extra year of pay.  5 years at $25k = $125k.  5 years at $30k + an extra one year service commitment without extra pay comes out to an amazing $25k per year.  They got us good.  Dirty pool AF.

Edited by Jathor
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
xaarman    112

Speaking of general discontent, what's the latest in the RPA world? 2014-2015 there was talk of the massive 18X exodus, how are they doing? 

Did the extra cash buy them morale? Did going from 65 to 60 CAPs solve the work load? There was all the talk, but haven't heard much in the last year+.

Edited by xaarman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MooseAg03    127

That's because the FTU is cranking out RPA pilots like mad. Our manning right now is as healthy as it has ever been on the pilot side. Alpha tour guys are being let go back to their MWS. We'll see over the next year when the 18Xers start hitting the end of their commitment how many stay. I know of 2 who took the bonus and one of those was prior rated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Termy    59

I honestly think some of this has to do with the age of the people making these decisions. It is very difficult for people to place inflation into real context. I've had the following conversation with my dad:

"Sierra Nevada is $14 a 12 pack?! That's so expensive!"

"uh dad. Do the math on what beer cost 20 years ago"

thinks......

"you're right. Bargain "

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FlyinGrunt    163

We'll see who puts their money where their math is at KCVS, but the stated intentions thus far point to a manning cliff on the 18X side.

It's all words until they actually drop papers though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sqwatch    404
It's not just about the money.  Money is in line with the rest of the issues plaguing this job.  Money is just the easiest, most tangible, identifiable symptom of a broader malaise.  My thesis is this: if there was a way to graph other QoL (home and work) indicators, they would roughly correlate. 
We are paid substantially less than we were roughly twenty years ago, in two specific categories:
1) Flight pay
2) ACP
Both of those pays have remained stagnant to inflation for over two decades.  $1k / $35k doesn't nearly cover the spread.  If those two pays were at least adjusted for inflation, the remaining issues would at least change in perspective.  But until that happens, we are essentially negotiating low cost items.  Pushing sleeves up?  Ancillary duties?  Fewer/clickable CBTs?  These are just low/no cost gimmes.

So it's mostly about the money and kinda about the cbts?

I say this tongue in cheek. I find in my later years that QOL has a huge dollar value for me, but i believe a lot of the frustration here and in the rated community in general is an assumption that we are underpaid for our service. I generally agree that assumption is correct in the market place right now (hooray capitalism). Where I disagree is that the military is obligated to pay us more. Also, i try to keep in perspective that i make more than most of my classmates from college.

The idea of windfall profit sharing sounds awesome. Working 12 days a month sounds orgasmic. Getting furloughed and having to withdraw from my savings sounds as bad as an oral transmission of the rash around BQZip's mom's hoo-ha.

Try not to shit on those who stick around for the stability of a paycheck- they may or may not be the lucky ones should the economy go to shit. After all, they still get to act out their childhood fantasies every time they go JFS start 2, and still have enough in the bank to binge order from amazon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
raimius    50

Fix the QoL issues and people will not demand massive pay increases (so long as people have a "comfortable" upper-middle class base pay).  You'll still lose people looking for better pay, but probably not at an unsustainable level.

OR

Compete with the airlines for pay.  You'll still lose people looking for QoL, but maybe you'll get sustainable numbers.

OR

Fix both and actually have a surplus of pilots (...and unicorns might shower you with pots of gold...)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goblin    86

OR
Fix both and actually have a surplus of pilots (...and unicorns might shower you with pots of gold...)


Just in time for another VSP/RIF!
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×