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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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31 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Maybe it’s wrong

Correct.

Didnt 'several hundred' helicopters lost in Afghanistan seem just a 'little' bit high to you?

And if you don't think the Army is concerned about their pilot shortage as well then you're wrong.  The Army gives a higher annual bonus to Apache pilots than some AF fixed wing pilots.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/09/05/army-paying-out-35000-bonuses-reduce-apache-pilot-shortage.html

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3 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Medical officers are completely necessary, but it’s not called the Doctor Force.

And yet they are compensated better. Interesting!

Edited by Klepto
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6 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Correct.

Didnt 'several hundred' helicopters lost in Afghanistan seem just a 'little' bit high to you?

And if you don't think the Army is concerned about their pilot shortage as well then you're wrong.  The Army gives a higher annual bonus to Apache pilots than some AF fixed wing pilots.

https://www.military.com/defensetech/2018/09/05/army-paying-out-35000-bonuses-reduce-apache-pilot-shortage.html

Someone who cares more than me correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure any pilot in the AF can sign for a $35K a year bonus now.  

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2 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

Someone who cares more than me correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure any pilot in the AF can sign for a $35K a year bonus now.  

False.  Only certain AFSCs get the full $35k/yr.  Helo pilot bonuses have decreased the past two years, and are back to $25k/yr, for example.

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48 minutes ago, Merle Dixon said:

See page 16 of this report. The $35k per year retention bonus is laughable when compared to the cost to train you to become a mission qualified wingman or mission qualified co-pilot...

 

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR2400/RR2415/RAND_RR2415.pdf

Recommendation pushes $100K/year for the cap Vice the current $35K. 

Not that it matters. This is the same organization that won’t allow renegotiated amounts but will gladly let you add three years at the current joke of an amount; no way they offer the max if it does go up. 

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It’s also the organization that won’t pay us an extra $300/mo in flight pay when we pass 10 years. If we’re not worth an extra $3,600/yr, then we’re not worth an extra $65k per year.


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I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

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I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

Probably the same way he feels about doctor’s bonuses.


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20 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

I hope he feels like I felt when I left active duty.  Man, there are dudes out there making way more than me, spending more time with their kids, and not fearing their inbox.  What do I have to do to get there!?! And then I hope he goes to the education office and signs up for a BS from somewhere other than ERAU.

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33 minutes ago, nunya said:

I hope he feels like I felt when I left active duty.  Man, there are dudes out there making way more than me, spending more time with their kids, and not fearing their inbox.  What do I have to do to get there!?! And then I hope he goes to the education office and signs up for a BS from somewhere other than ERAU.

That’s the right answer, and that’s how a lot of young enlisted kids in the Air Force actually think. They look up, see a jet in a low closed, look at accession opportunities and get there.

They’re not the problem. It’s the old people. Old GSs. Chiefs. Old acquiescent staff officers. They’re still living in the 1990s. $25,000 is a lot of money. Only doctors and lawyers are rich.

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Unfortunately the USAF is struggling to keep a generation of people who were taught how to be goal motivated, take risk early and not be afraid to move for a better opportunity. When you can't offer me a meaningful answer to how you are going to continue to mentor/grow/advance me past 14 years of service if I'm not on the command track, and don't want to pay me well, I'm going to go looking other places. Especially in my mid 30's, an age that my civilian counterparts widely regard as the peak years for quick/vertical mobility. I should be in the space shuttle at this point aiming for low earth orbit and you want me to level off at FL350 and accept holding for the straight in to retirement. you bro. 

Sorry, a little extra jaded today. 

 

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8 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

I don't know... How does he feel about my extra $1k a month in flight pay?

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8 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I think another factor is today's "everyone's equal" culture propagated through the AF.  How is Amn Bagodicks down at Finance going to feel when he finds out pilots are getting $100K a year on top of their normal salaries? 

You can bet every non-pilot in the AF will have less than zero consideration for any pilot quality of life/work issues. As a matter of fact, it’s likely fair to assume they’ll feel more than justified in making you earn that kind of bonus.

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Fuck that attitude, if your a pilot on a base and you run into this attitude, somewhere along that douche bags chain of command, is a pilot.  If you’re more than a snot nosed LT,  fix it.  Rememeber, behind the silver wings of power, you’re also an officer, dust that knowledge off.

Somebody is going to jump on here and say you should fix it as a LT, that’s dumb, nobody listens to them.

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Given the attitude among our own higher chain of command pilots about current QOL grievances, do you think those career officers will be more or less likely to intervene on your behalf when you are making $100k more?

Sure, it’d feel good to give some lesser ranking dude the “what for”, but I don’t have faith in many the higher ranking pilots who currently exist above them.

No one should believe the current status quo will remain and an unlikely hypothetical big bonus won’t come with some strings attached. 

Your every concern will be met with: “That’s why you make the big bucks.’

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13 minutes ago, torqued said:

Your every concern will be met with: “That’s why you make the big bucks.’

Nah. You’re overthinking it. If it’s  not one thing it’s another. We already hear “service before self” and “suck it up, you joined the military.” The retention issue the AF has right now is that pilots can say “no thanks” laughing all the way to the bank, as change the size of the current bonus is falling out of their pockets the whole way without even denting their bottom line.

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43 minutes ago, Klepto said:

Nah. You’re overthinking it. If it’s  not one thing it’s another. We already hear “service before self” and “suck it up, you joined the military.” The retention issue the AF has right now is that pilots can say “no thanks” laughing all the way to the bank, as change the size of the current bonus is falling out of their pockets the whole way without even denting their bottom line.

Here’s hoping. It won’t happen for me, but I hope the younger guys get a bonus big enough to tolerate whatever the AF throws at them.

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2 hours ago, torqued said:

Here’s hoping. It won’t happen for me, but I hope the younger guys get a bonus big enough to tolerate whatever the AF throws at them.

Totally agree... but! if there’s going to be any hope of actually using pay to help solve the problem, we can’t frame it as an admission of guilt or failure on the part of the AF.

“Acknowledging market forces beyond our control and taking the most fiscally and strategically responsible actions as recommended by numerous panels of independent experts” is far less likely to be met with Capt Closedfortraining’s “that’s not  fair” or Sue Neverservedaday’s “you joined the military” or Sen Goodolboy’s “what’s wrong with your culture?” 

This is as much about avoiding/defusing irrational arguments against a pay increase as it is endorsing the rational action of making one. Plagiarism-ish: “Subordinates and peers respond to complainers-in-chief; all else see whining.” 

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Totally agree... but! if there’s going to be any hope of actually using pay to help solve the problem, we can’t frame it as an admission of guilt or failure on the part of the AF.
“Acknowledging market forces beyond our control and taking the most fiscally and strategically responsible actions as recommended by numerous panels of independent experts” is far less likely to be met with Capt Closedfortraining’s “that’s not  fair” or Sue Neverservedaday’s “you joined the military” or Sen Goodolboy’s “what’s wrong with your culture?” 
This is as much about avoiding/defusing irrational arguments against a pay increase as it is endorsing the rational action of making one. Plagiarism-ish: “Subordinates and peers respond to complainers-in-chief; all else see whining.” 


One of the worst opponents to military compensation was McCain. Hopefully people will be able to undo what he did in his last few years because “he had far less compensation when he was in and it was fine.”
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9 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

$37.5k-$100k per year for 4 yrs for their bonuses

You know, a buddy of mine and I were just discussing the impending doctor shortage which threatens to cripple America’s combat capability in the next 5-7 years...🙄

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