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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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Since it’s paid in arrears now (annually), is there a payback requirement?


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Don’t know about this year but yes there has been in the recent past a payback requirement. For the big bonus longer than 2 years if you accomplished less than 2 years then you had to pay it all back. If you only made it greater than 2 years but less than 4 you had to pay back 10k a year. If you make it longer than 4 then you keep what you got.
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22 hours ago, herkbum said:

 


Since it’s paid in arrears now (annually), is there a payback requirement?


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See my example above, and what guardian said for another example. It is plainly spelled out in the bonus language - bottom line there will be some payback if you don’t do a min amount of your total years you originally signed up for (based on bonus type/length), BUT there is also a time point where if you pass, you can keep it all and still not do the entire length you signed up for. Infinitely better than the AD bonus, which makes me laugh (and feel bad for my AD bonus friends)

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See my example above, and what guardian said for another example. It is plainly spelled out in the bonus language - bottom line there will be some payback if you don’t do a min amount of your total years you originally signed up for (based on bonus type/length), BUT there is also a time point where if you pass, you can keep it all and still not do the entire length you signed up for. Infinitely better than the AD bonus, which makes me laugh (and feel bad for my AD bonus friends)


I’ve always signed the min bonus so time has never been an issue for me.



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From memory when I read it ~1.5 weeks ago (probably not 100% accurate, but you get the gist):

Tier 1: $35k/yr for 2-6 years. Only for permanent AGR 11F.

Tier 2: $25K/yr for 2-6 years. Only for permanent AGR 12F, RPA, and I think one other AFSC  

Tier 3: $15K/yr for 1-3 years. For DSGs on orders (ADOS, temp AGR, etc.) that meet the required period of service.

All paid in arrears.

Edited by brabus
Increased accuracy
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  • 2 weeks later...

Had a Wing/CC recently say that “the bonus is out and I have been told by the Gen’s to let you all know. The information is in the email if you want to read about it and ask your leadership if you have questions. However, I will say before you sign the bonus truly look at it and ask your self if the AF has or is changing the way the Gen’s say it is. I’m skeptical”

First CC of any type I have heard pretty much say don’t take the bonus. 

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  • 1 month later...
2 hours ago, di1630 said:

Even at that, the USAF doesn’t auth the full amount for a lot of groups.

Very telling.

Yeah. It’s insulting 😂. Their next shortage will be at 20+ YAS as guys who stayed expecting the AF to step up get out as soon as they can to join the club.

60k ends the shortage today. Guaranteed.

But I guess they don’t have a problem anymore since they've stopped requesting a higher AvB.

Edited by Klepto
Engrish.
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At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

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58 minutes ago, brabus said:

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

And officially the Aircrew Crisis Task Force has been renamed the Aircrew Task Force. No crisis around here fellas. That and the optics of a no-no word

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At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-ing-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  
This is actually more what I would have imagined. The experience I had with O-6s was that they were resentful of the younger crowd for wanting better retention measures. That's not to say they were malicious about it (some were), but even the "great dudes" would push back some in a conversation about why the AF isn't doing enough to keep talent. I suspect that sentiment goes all the way to the top.

Think about it, these are the guys who made it through the air force that was firing people every three years. There was never anybody higher ranking than them who asked what it would take to keep them in. In fact, if they left, it was in line with the Air Force's future manning projections. They basically lived through the hunger games to make it to the top. Now all of a sudden, when they're finally in the position of power they worked oh so hard for, they're told they need to come up with ways to keep a bunch of millennial captains and majors happy, when not a damn person cared about their happiness.

I get why they aren't thrilled with the idea. But that doesn't change the necessity of it.

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49 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

There was never anybody higher ranking than them who asked what it would take to keep them in. 

I guess desperate times call for...

increasing UPT throughput to 1500+ and funding diversity measures to access untapped recruiting pools.

Don’t worry folks. Pilot shortage will be solved by 2023. You are expendable once again. Now move along.

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3 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

DAL put $38k into my 401k last year. Each and every one of you has millions of dollars worth of training. The $35k retention bonus is an insult. Imbiciles. Fools.

And how much did you have to contribute for Delta Airlines to give you $38,000 on top of your $130,000-$180,000 second-year pay and 10+ days off a month?

Edited by Klepto
Siri
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2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is actually more what I would have imagined. The experience I had with O-6s was that they were resentful of the younger crowd for wanting better retention measures...

I get why they aren't thrilled with the idea. But that doesn't change the necessity of it.
 

If only there were a 600 year old, well developed, universally respected [sans the military] field of study that could neutralize emotion and very accurately spit out a number (that would look a lot like the RAND study number) to change behavior in a group. 

Economics in the military: “yeah, yeah... but the value of quality of service is up to you. If it isn’t valuable enough to change your mind, you’re not patriotic enough.” 

Economic behavior is a natural force. Keep trying to defy gravity, big blue. Your experience will watch the show from our new boats.

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If only there were a 600 year old, well developed, universally respected [sans the military] field of study that could neutralize emotion and very accurately spit out a number (that would look a lot like the RAND study number) to change behavior in a group. 
Economics in the military: “yeah, yeah... but the value of quality of service is up to you. If it isn’t valuable enough to change your mind, you’re not patriotic enough.” 
Economic behavior is a natural force. Keep trying to defy gravity, big blue. Your experience will watch the show from our new boats.

Only one warning from your post... if it flys, floats or fornicates it’s cheaper to rent than own. I’ve ops tested 2 of the 3 and I’ve found this principle to hold true.


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At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-ing-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  
Was this NGB/A3?!
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10 hours ago, brabus said:

At the recent OG council the OGs advocated for max bonus (i.e. $35k for 1 year orders vs. current $15K), A1 concurred on the idea, saying they agreed with the pilot shortage.  FM folks were on board. And then A3 says there isn't a pilot shortage and they don't see a need for increasing bonuses to allowed, full amount.  Un-fucking-believable...the operations guys (e.g. "us") say there isn't a problem, but even the manpower non-operators are saying there's a problem.  Admittedly I generally blamed this stupidity on A1, well turns out it's our own guys backstabbing us.  The ironic thing is I said to my OG a few weeks ago how I had lost all faith in the staff to do anything right (referencing another crucial topic)...well, apparently I can lose more than 100% faith.  

You've just now lost faith?  Welcome to the club brosef!  7-8 years ago we had one of these staff lifers show up and be our OG.  Dude made numerous bizarro changes, including making a few of us interview for the jobs we were already in.  Then he informed me that it was no longer an AGR spot but GS-12 Step 1 (massive paycut for me).  That's when my faith went sub-zero and I blasted to the regionals.  In the end, this was the best thing that ever happened to me.  I think that's what got me on so early at Delta, which allowed me to quickly get to be a WB FO.  I've worked 2.5 days (sim training) this month and I'm 99% sure I won't actually step foot in a Delta cockpit this month.  

The staff has a way of creating lifers who rarely step foot outside of Arlington/Crystal city.  Slides are green, it must all be good!  Never mind the handful of fighter squadrons that can't keep 20 pilots on the LOXs and have to work their peoples balls off to make the mission happen.  I'm sure the squadron that only has 17 pilots, and is about to lose 4-5 more, will be just fine!  

BTW, the head of the OG council just finished IOE at his Legacy airline...nothing to see here!

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4 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Was this NGB/A3?!

Yep. 

3 hours ago, SocialD said:

You've just now lost faith?

Ha, it’s been draining for quite some time - but this and one other thing pushed me over the edge into sub-zero faith. 

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Ha, it’s been draining for quite some time - but this and one other thing pushed me over the edge into sub-zero faith. 
Interesting. Well that has to do with the AGR's. They upped the ART pay, but are converting ARTs to AGR's. If I were an ART in the Step 6+ range, I'd want to stay an ART. $220k per year is possible with a 25% retention bonus. Even with a $35k per year AGR bonus, the ART gig may now be better deal, especially when you can play the "I am a civilian" game after hours and on the weekends and be a free agent when your dream job calls.

I will be discussing my military future with my OG within the next week, which includes my plan to go Cat E way before 20 yrs TOS. NGB has no retention issues at all.... none.
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