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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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What about people who are eligible for the 2nd bonus? Say the 11M $30K/yr for at least 3 years but must go to 22 YAS.

How does one retire at 20 years when they have an ADSC to 22 YAS if they’ve already elected the 24 year option? I realize without the ADSC one could retire at 20 years since the 24 is their option. But how does that work when it is no longer your option because of an ADSC?

My guess is that if you’ve already elected 24, you’re stuck with an adsc that takes you to 22. However, if you only elected 20, they may not be able to enforce the 22 adsc. Just a guess though.
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On the QoL front:

Yes, the airlines can tank. If you're not willing to take that risk, nothing will change you mind.

But here is what you are giving up. This is American airlines, saying what my projected seniority number will be every year based only on retirements. I was hired in March.

Right now the lowest wide body captains are ~2000-3000 in seniority. So you may get it after retiring from the AF, but it won't be for long, and you won't have the seniority to control your schedule.

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   I think I might need a sanity check and wanted the brain trust's weigh in.  I'm leaning towards taking the bonus.  A little background.  Late to rate so I just qualify for the bonus this FY.  I have 4 years and 9 days until retirement (continued to 20) and a DEROS in 2019.  With three years left most of my math says transition afterwards would be fiscally smoother staying.  I'm worried about a few things; finding a guard/reserve unit that would even take me this long in the tooth, if I had to stick it out in the regionals for a few years(I have a few flying skeletons), 4 years of lost seniority, and finally is anyone worried about stop loss?  Thanks in advance! -FN  

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19 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

On the QoL front:

Yes, the airlines can tank. If you're not willing to take that risk, nothing will change you mind.

But here is what you are giving up. This is American airlines, saying what my projected seniority number will be every year based only on retirements. I was hired in March.

Right now the lowest wide body captains are ~2000-3000 in seniority. So you may get it after retiring from the AF, but it won't be for long, and you won't have the seniority to control your schedule.

ae3dbdc3ea1bdc84d9dda9ed4dc8b46d.jpg

It's all about luck and timing.  I was hired at 33 also but my Sen@65 is only 141.  Guys getting hired now with 30+ years to go will be in the top 1%.  

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14 minutes ago, Flyingnut said:

   I think I might need a sanity check and wanted the brain trust's weigh in.  I'm leaning towards taking the bonus.  A little background.  Late to rate so I just qualify for the bonus this FY.  I have 4 years and 9 days until retirement (continued to 20) and a DEROS in 2019.  With three years left most of my math says transition afterwards would be fiscally smoother staying.  I'm worried about a few things; finding a guard/reserve unit that would even take me this long in the tooth, if I had to stick it out in the regionals for a few years(I have a few flying skeletons), 4 years of lost seniority, and finally is anyone worried about stop loss?  Thanks in advance! -FN  

If I offered you $1.6mm to stay in with the only stipulation being you could only take $50k a year of it out would you do it? I’d stay in personally if you can avoid 365 and your family supports. 

Minor thread derail but people’s “expected earnings” stuff for the airlines never seem to discount to present value. In other words, the fact that by staying in a couple years you might miss a couple years of $300,000 in your sixties isn’t that big of a deal. 

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8 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:
17 minutes ago, Buddy Spike said:
It's all about luck and timing.  I was hired at 33 also but my Sen@65 is only 141.  Guys getting hired now with 30+ years to go will be in the top 1%.  

141 is still incredible!

There's a site called myaacareer.com that can give you a good idea of your career earnings.

This assumes I only want to live in DFW and upgrade when it's available there, flying long call for my whole career (73 hrs) and contributing nothing to the 401(k) except the 16% the company gives us.  Starting at year two.  It's nearly an eleven million dollar career, and that's with AA which is bottom of the barrel in terms of earnings potential and work rules.  

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10 minutes ago, Hunter Rose said:

So how many folks are planning on working until 65?  I plan on sipping Mai Tais on the beach NLT 55 personally. 

 

How many years does it take until you’re earning $200K at a Legacy?  

This starts at year two for me given the above assumptions (moving to DFW and staying, working 73 hrs only).  Salary only add 16% for 401k.

 

image.thumb.png.63410373b9d4484b620174ad453c8fcb.png

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3 hours ago, Flyingnut said:

   I think I might need a sanity check and wanted the brain trust's weigh in.  I'm leaning towards taking the bonus.  A little background.  Late to rate so I just qualify for the bonus this FY.  I have 4 years and 9 days until retirement (continued to 20) and a DEROS in 2019.  With three years left most of my math says transition afterwards would be fiscally smoother staying.  I'm worried about a few things; finding a guard/reserve unit that would even take me this long in the tooth, if I had to stick it out in the regionals for a few years(I have a few flying skeletons), 4 years of lost seniority, and finally is anyone worried about stop loss?  Thanks in advance! -FN  

Can you do better than a 50% base pay pension for 4 years of work, compared to 4 years of another job? Money and QoL

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16 hours ago, Termy said:

If I offered you $1.6mm to stay in with the only stipulation being you could only take $50k a year of it out would you do it? I’d stay in personally if you can avoid 365 and your family supports. 

Minor thread derail but people’s “expected earnings” stuff for the airlines never seem to discount to present value. In other words, the fact that by staying in a couple years you might miss a couple years of $300,000 in your sixties isn’t that big of a deal. 

Google “net present value of an airline career vs military retirement” and read the first page of links... you’ll make a lot of net present value of an airline career vs military retirement” you’ll make a lot more money if you accept the facts.

Try $300,000 a year in your 40s.

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8 hours ago, Klepto said:

Google “net present value of an airline career vs military retirement” and read the first page of links... you’ll make a lot of net present value of an airline career vs military retirement” you’ll make a lot more money if you accept the facts.

Try $300,000 a year in your 40s.

I hear you and I’m a fan of facts! Looking forward to reading the study you posted below. I’m not antiairline and the big money at all-just in the case I responded to (late rated with four years left) I bet the difference isn’t giant. And no, he won’t make $300,000 in his 40s. He’s probably right at 40 now making this decision. 

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7 hours ago, Termy said:

I hear you and I’m a fan of facts! Looking forward to reading the study you posted below. I’m not antiairline and the big money at all-just in the case I responded to (late rated with four years left) I bet the difference isn’t giant. And no, he won’t make $300,000 in his 40s. He’s probably right at 40 now making this decision. 

Reread my post and I came off way more blunt then I intended. I actually didn’t intend to come off that way at all. Thanks for the moderated reply.

You’re right. 300k in 40s would be for a guy who gets out at end of UPT commitment.

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"Air Force enlisted pilot implementation initiatives

The committee directs the Secretary of the Air Force to provide a briefing to the House Committee on Armed Services not later than March 4, 2019, on the plan to implement the enlisted pilot aircrew requirements of Section 1052 of the FY17 NDAA for the MQ-9 enterprise of the Active, Guard, and Reserve components of the Air Force. Furthermore, the committee directs the Secretary of the Air Force to submit a report to the congressional defense committees not later than April 1, 2019, on the costs, benefits, and feasibility of authorizing enlisted Airmen or Warrant Officers as pilots, navigators, or weapon systems operators on all Air Force aircraft or rotorcraft platforms. The report should also assess and explain any policy or guidance impediments that would preclude enlisted Airmen or Warrant Officers from serving as pilots, navigators, or weapon systems operators."

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It’s all part of Goldfein’s master plan. He’s already got all the officers jumping ship for the Legacies/Majors/LCCs. Now he wants to provide the regionals with former enlisted pilots so every airline will be forced to give him a seat on their Board of Directors!

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If they have degrees. His scheme wont survive 1st contact when enlistments are up and the AF has shit on them.  They'll take their very valuable skill and get real paid.  The Es that go pilot will be smart enough to get the degree while they can. The pay jump for those guys is even more.  AF better have a supp flight pay to make them par or else.

He must be thinking that keeping Es would be easier than Os.  He'll be wrong.

Out

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Correct. He's banking on the notion that the Es are smart enough to fly the airplanes but dumb enough to not be able or capable to get an online (or hell even brick and mortar) 4-year degree, thence making them non-competitive for major airline work. An absolutely checkers move and mentality on the part of senior management. You can't make this shit up. In all reality the AF is so insufferably ethnocentric that they'll end up shelving the idea anyways for a completely different and biased reason. I guess the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The clownshow continues.

 

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17 hours ago, Klepto said:

"Air Force enlisted pilot implementation initiatives

The committee directs the Secretary of the Air Force to provide a briefing to the House Committee on Armed Services not later than March 4, 2019, on the plan to implement the enlisted pilot aircrew requirements of Section 1052 of the FY17 NDAA for the MQ-9 enterprise of the Active, Guard, and Reserve components of the Air Force. Furthermore, the committee directs the Secretary of the Air Force to submit a report to the congressional defense committees not later than April 1, 2019, on the costs, benefits, and feasibility of authorizing enlisted Airmen or Warrant Officers as pilots, navigators, or weapon systems operators on all Air Force aircraft or rotorcraft platforms. The report should also assess and explain any policy or guidance impediments that would preclude enlisted Airmen or Warrant Officers from serving as pilots, navigators, or weapon systems operators."

Maybe I'm missing something, but this appears to be congress' checkers move, not AF leadership'.  Yet.  I'd imagine that congressional staffers hear and discuss the same batch of bright ideas that we churn through, so this is just congress asking "hey, what about this one?", to which the AF as duty experts can weigh in and shed light on why it's not a wise move.  

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