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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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From the testimony: “This budget boosts pipeline capacity, expands pilot training and addresses experience shortfalls, continues incentive pay and bonuses, improves administrative support at the squadron level, and funds flying hours to executable levels.”

Continues, not increases. I refuse to believe that Air Force leadership doesn’t understand market capitalism. I also refuse to believe that they can’t see the immense cost savings involved in not having to train replacements to backfill departing pilots. I really think it’s as simple as bureaucratic pride and not wanting to cede organizational control and influence to the line pilot peons.

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51 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

From the testimony: “This budget boosts pipeline capacity, expands pilot training and addresses experience shortfalls, continues incentive pay and bonuses, improves administrative support at the squadron level, and funds flying hours to executable levels.”

Continues, not increases. I refuse to believe that Air Force leadership doesn’t understand market capitalism. I also refuse to believe that they can’t see the immense cost savings involved in not having to train replacements to backfill departing pilots. I really think it’s as simple as bureaucratic pride and not wanting to cede organizational control and influence to the line pilot peons.

I think it is significant to note that the quote above is just a drop in the bucket from the written testimony they submitted beforehand, not actually what was said.

Neither incentive pay nor bonuses were mentioned in the verbal testimony. They only discussed QOL/QOS initiatives and increasing flight hours. It was definitely intentional that they omitted any talk about money. Judging by the commitee's response at the end, I think they got the point that they wanted them to get. That is... Pilots don't want money. They want to fly. And these initiatives will fix the pilot shortage.

I do think they understand market capitalism. They also communicated quite clearly that they do not like the 1500/750-hour rule "which other countries do not have," and welcomed the committee's support with respect to that and other national pilot training initiatives. They're not dumb.

Edited by Klepto
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18 minutes ago, Guardian said:


Yes they are. Or we wouldn’t be here or anything close to here.

I see your point, so to rephrase... closing the door to the airlines by lobbying for the elimination of the 1500/750-hour rule and for increased national pilot training throughput is a shrewd move.

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15 hours ago, Klepto said:

I see your point, so to rephrase... closing the door to the airlines by lobbying for the elimination of the 1500/750-hour rule and for increased national pilot training throughput is a shrewd move.

...and foolishly short sighted.  They'll just open the flood gates a little wider.  Just because all the lifeboats are full doesn't mean I'm staying on the Titanic.  On the other end of the pipeline, kids wanting to fly are closely watching how this all plays out.  No one wants to join an organization that doesn't respect and care for its people. 

If it were me as a college student right now, I'd be figuring out how to get picked up with the Guard/Reserve folks while I pursue an airline career.  Get your mil flying and chase the airlines too.  Way more attractive than deploy, deploy, deploy, pass over, try and screw you on the way out.

 

Edited by FourFans130
inglesh fail
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3 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

...and foolishly short sighted.  They'll just open the flood gates a little wider.  Just because all the lifeboats are full doesn't mean I'm staying on the Titanic.  On the other end of the pipeline, kids wanting to fly are closely watching how this all plays out.  No one wants to join an organization that doesn't respect and care for its people. 

If it were me as a college student right now, I'd be figuring out how to get picked up with the Guard/Reserve folks while I pursue an airline career.  Get your mil flying and chase the airlines too.  Way more attractive than deploy, deploy, deploy, pass over, try and screw you on the way out.

 

Maybe shortsighted. Maybe not.

I can agree with everything else you said and I only recommend Guard (and only Guard) to pilot hopefuls.

I just think that we would all call someone stupid if they were cracking eggs over a frying pan while we were expecting them to be preparing pizza.

Let’s face it. These are thoughtful, well-educated individuals. They are not stupid. But, it has become clear that they simply don’t have the same end-game or goals in mind. They’re making an omelette.

No matter how much we want pizza (my number has always been 76k to match airline pay), they aren’t doing it. Not because they are stupid. It’s an emotional move to underestimate the other team’s intelligence.

Not that you called them stupid directly, but it’s been happening a lot.

I’ve come to accept that they’ve determined that they don’t need us as much as we think. They have determined that their actions will result in a solution that is good enough. And they’ve determined they don’t need us. It is apparent that they think enough will stay from what they have planned.

Seeing as they have plans to shut the flood gates by lobbying to rescind the 1500/750 hour rule and increase pilot training in 50 different ways from Sunday I’ve personally concluded that they’ve found it more attainable to solve the Airline shortage, which they see as the root cause of our shortage... and that will be good enough. It’s a shrewd move. They’re going to end the airline hiring spree, flanking us on the left while we’re all looking right and telling them they suck.

Plus, not all my pilot friends can apparently do math or care about being deployed 200+ days a year then coming home to queep... or single.

I can’t call the AF shortsighted pertaining to this newest leadership team just yet. I think they have cards up their sleeve we don’t see.

It would behoove us to each worry about our own smartest move and less about theirs... walking with our feet instead of stomping around in fits. Insulting their intelligence insinuates that they don’t understand what they are doing. But they do. They’re not dumb. They know what they are doing. They just don’t care about the same things you do and they may just have a different end-game in mind.

And when you walk with your feet, don’t assume they will care. You’ve got to do it for you... not to stick it to the man. They will thank you for your service, but they will never care. That’s OK. They’re not stupid. They’ve got plans. Make sure you do too, in or out.

It’s like a bad breakup. We don’t want to be the crazy ex. It’s not flattering. Let’s just move on.

Edited by Klepto
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2 hours ago, Klepto said:

Seeing as they have plans to shut the flood gates by lobbying to rescind the 1500/750 hour rule and increase pilot training in 50 different ways from Sunday I’ve personally concluded that they’ve found it more attainable to solve the Airline shortage, which they see as the root cause of our shortage... and that will be good enough. It’s a shrewd move. They’re going to end the airline hiring spree, flanking us on the left while we’re all looking right and telling them they suck.

Agree with most of what you said, but I don’t think changing the 1500 hour rule will be as easy as AF management thinks, nor would it “shut the flood gates” for hiring at the majors.  It would make it way easier for the regionals to hire civilian pilots at subpar wages and benefits, prolonging that failing business model for a while.  Being able to adequately staff the regionals might result in less regional flying brought to mainline, but Delta (CS100 and 717), for example, has already brought quite a bit of regional flying in house.  Doesn’t even come close to hiring for the staggering number of retirements at the majors.  They’ll still hire a ton of mil pilots, whether the AF likes it or not.

I too don’t think AF managers are stupid... nor would I call them “shrewd”.  I think they’re piss-poor at management, and basically are incompetent at effectively running a large organization.  They certainly aren’t “leaders”, despite referring to themselves as such.  I do agree that they simply don’t care.  I know the pro-management frauds on this board would have you believe otherwise, but the AF really doesn’t get their management right most of the time.

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Was given this with word that the official announcement will be today:

54fe65abecb93e7b1199ca816480bf4f.jpg

So not much new, in fact seems like a retrograde of good deals from the 1 year offered last year. I have no skin in the game on this. Curious the thoughts of younger guys. My prediction is this doesn’t do much to stop the bleeding.
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So not much new, in fact seems like a retrograde of good deals from the 1 year offered last year. I have no skin in the game on this. Curious the thoughts of younger guys. My prediction is this doesn’t do much to stop the bleeding.

Disappointed to see the 1 and 2 year options go away. I’m not ready to punch yet, but don’t want an ADSC that would prevent me from 7-day opting a shitty PCS.
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It’s only making my decision easier. I’m no longer valued by this organization, why would I continue to punish myself for lower pay and QOL?

Yeah, I just ran some quick numbers vs airline pay and it doesn’t look good for big blue here.

I figure a major at 12 yrs + bonus and avg BAH is pulling ~$159k

Incidentally a 3rd year 737 F.O. at Delta is ~$159k before 401k / profit sharing.

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I have to say this seems like a step backwards to me also. I mean it seems like they would want to get ahead of the mobility pilot shortage looming. The 1-2 yr options gave some flexibility, but i can understand why they don’t like that as much but if your gonna take something away atleast replace it with something! Maybe a choice of assignment location for a tour or no non flying deployment clause. Something...smh! The AF can’t even get out of its own way! All they need to do now is raise flight pay for the first bracket by 15$ per month, problem solved! Haha! Smh! So sad...

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On 4/24/2018 at 10:39 PM, Majestik Møøse said:

From the testimony: “This budget boosts pipeline capacity, expands pilot training and addresses experience shortfalls, continues incentive pay and bonuses, improves administrative support at the squadron level, and funds flying hours to executable levels.”

Continues, not increases. I refuse to believe that Air Force leadership doesn’t understand market capitalism. I also refuse to believe that they can’t see the immense cost savings involved in not having to train replacements to backfill departing pilots. I really think it’s as simple as bureaucratic pride and not wanting to cede organizational control and influence to the line pilot peons.

That’s because we have people getting up in front of the Chief and SECAF and saying it’s not about the money. 

It is about the money. It’s also about other stuff. But it is 100% about the money. And that’s ok. 

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22 minutes ago, Homestar said:

That’s because we have people getting up in front of the Chief and SECAF and saying it’s not about the money. 

It is about the money. It’s also about other stuff. But it is 100% about the money. And that’s ok. 

Totally agree! The money is the ONLY thing you can count on, everything else is built on hope. I hope the AF gets turned around but unfortunately there is risk it will not get get better. 

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9 hours ago, bronxbomber252 said:

Was given this with word that the official announcement will be today:

54fe65abecb93e7b1199ca816480bf4f.jpg

Not much love for the RW 11H bros, went from "tier 3" to "tier 4." I wouldn't be surprised if next year they don't offer us one at all and call our bluff. We are pretty expendable in the AF's perspective. I predict a MASS exodus In the next five years of RW 11Hs. 

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1 minute ago, Breckey said:

If there are no fighter pilots then there is nobody to rescue and no need for RW pilots.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLVP1eSgu4lOjE2Nkcz-3

I knew I was second rate in Big Blue's eyes, but I at least thought you'd come save my ass!  

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8 hours ago, di1630 said:


So not much new, in fact seems like a retrograde of good deals from the 1 year offered last year. I have no skin in the game on this. Curious the thoughts of younger guys. My prediction is this doesn’t do much to stop the bleeding.

Yeah, the AF is so short on pilots that it just reduced the bonus for some of them...

Is $500/yr going to make a huge difference?  Probably not, but it certainly sends the message that Big Blue really doesn't care that much about experience retention.

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Don’t expect any changes next year.

FY19NDAA House Markup

“The following sections of title 37, United States Code, are amended by striking ‘‘December 31, 2018’’ and inserting ‘‘December 31, 2019’’:
...
(3) Section 334(i), relating to special aviation incentive pay and bonus authorities for officers.”

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What I hear is a focus on numbers, not quality.  I think Goldfein was about to get there, but was cut off.

All of us should be concerned about the quality of the fighting force.  We're too small to sacrifice having the sharpest sword.  Right now we are hemorrhaging all our experience due to retention.  We can fix the production, but all those kids are going to have to relearn knowledge that resided in the experienced pilots who got forced out by QOL.  Some of those kids will die needlessly.  In fact, it's already happening (reference multiple crashes in SW Asia).

I am a good IP.  I want to stay and make a difference.  I would happily sit in an FTU and teach if I didn't have the constant threat of a 365.  I refuse to give the big blue the reigns and sign up for more if they refuse to respect the talent that they have.  If the only thing keeping me in (in the face of that 365 threat) is money, I'm out.  Simply.  Remove the 1500/750 hour requirement, and I think you'll simply see more young pilots who only got one ops tour punch ASAP.  Retention will only get worse.

All the talk about the airlines and production being the root causes belies the fact that the USAF "leaders" have given up on keeping quality pilots because the solutions are too hard (from a staff perspective) to implement.  That comes from a staff who has drawn the same conclusion.  The system promotes it's own, and the men and women in those staffs got there by self promoting.  In short, they are not a part of the pool of individuals fearful of 365's and family hardship because they have already placed career above everything else...that's how they got where they are.  So clearly it's the airline's fault, because that's a metric they can measure and fix WAY easier vs telling CENTCOM to sod off about having a 365 Chief of Wing Exercises. 

They're taking the easiest road instead of fixing the root cause: Senior leadership from O-6 and above are disconnected from the line executors of the main mission of the USAF.

P.S. Go to any airline hiring site and dig in, you'll find that they have hundreds if not thousands of QUALIFIED candidates that are not getting called or are being rejected at the interview because the airlines cannot afford to sacrifice on quality.  I don't see that changing, even if the 1500 hour rule gets rescinded, especially as the USAF continues to produce quality pilots for them.  Congrats USAF, you want to make the crowd in Delta's waiting room bigger by adding younger civilian dudes.  Well done. USAF experienced pilots will still often jump ahead.  High quality experience counts.

Edited by FourFans130
clarification
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What are the pros/cons to taking the lump sum option? Is it more advantageous for tax reasons to take the lump sum?

Tax question aside, don’t you stand to gain more in compound interest by taking a lump sum and immediately investing the whole amount versus contributing your installment annually?
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