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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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2 hours ago, di1630 said:


Today the diff between a maj and ltc retiring at 20 years is ~$6k before taxes. Over 40 years that’s $240kish....hardly half mil

Time value of money bro.  At 7% interest compounded annually, that extra 6k per year earns you more than a million dollars over 40 years.  Assuming one is disciplined enough to invest, the difference between an O-4 and O-5 retirement is a huge deal.

DA5D8DA7-377A-4C11-94C4-09F15456C25A.png

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9 minutes ago, WheelzUp said:

Time value of money bro.  At 7% interest compounded annually, that extra 6k per year earns you more than a million dollars over 40 years.  Assuming one is disciplined enough to invest, the difference between an O-4 and O-5 retirement is a huge deal.

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I think this is still only part of the picture. The Net Present Value function gives a very different picture for your decision making.  The NPV of the $1.37M in your example 40 years from now at 7% interest, compounded monthly could be achieved with an initial one time deposit of $84,082.  

There's many ways to calculate and a lot of factors to consider, but I recommend keeping the NPV function in a variety of financial calculations.  It's available in Excel or from various sites online.  

Cheers.

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5 minutes ago, MTC said:

I think this is still only part of the picture. The Net Present Value function gives a very different picture for your decision making.  The NPV of the $1.37M in your example 40 years from now at 7% interest, compounded monthly could be achieved with an initial one time deposit of $84,082.  

There's many ways to calculate and a lot of factors to consider, but I recommend keeping the NPV function in a variety of financial calculations.  It's available in Excel or from various sites online.  

Cheers.

This. Sorry Wheels up, but 1M at 42.69 years into the future isn’t the same as 1M now. NPV is real difference. 

Think I’m full of shit?  How about lending me 500K now with the understanding that I’ll give you a cool mil in 42.69 years?

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Pay me as a major. Give me a 50k bonus. And hire a personal secretary for 35k with no additional duties, no quiep, Zero staff deployments only warfighting in your MWS, don’t make it 0 possibility to still make it to leadership track if at 20 years I think I might want to, and I still probably wouldn’t choose this path or stay in. The AF is in a world of hurt. They have burned a way to large segment of their people without care and now that we have power they just don’t realize what’s going on. I honestly don’t think even robin olds could fix the institutional leadership rot that we have in the AF. And since they are the ones in charge what motivation do they have to change. They can leave at any time they want. They are currently making a good amount of money and they aren’t stuck with the long term fall out of the decisions that they are making today. They don’t care about anything but their own bottom line so why should we care about anything else?

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For what it's worth, I'm all for the Fly-Only career track. Hell, I'd sign up for it tomorrow if I could.

Here's the but: there are only so many "bad deals" that can be eliminated at the system level. If we swing the pendulum too far into the Zipper-suited Sun God's corner by allowing them to stiff-arm anything outside of bankers hours at a homesteading base, then the pool from which to draw from for the needed bad deals shrinks evermore. Thereby, the "traditional" career path (for argument, our next leaders) would know little more than that they are perpetually the ones getting stuck outside of the cockpit, further diminishing their tactical skill set, and credibility for combat leadership. This would only exacerbate the problem we've all seen develop.

A Fly-Only career track can not be essentially an airline pilot wearing green/tan. Recognize that a pilot's talents are needed all over the Air Force and DoD, to include the Fly-Only. Compensate appropriately, but don't create a separate, "protected" class of pilots that somehow believe that graduation from UPT supersedes the commissioning oath.

My solution:

1. Let pilots be pilots. Ensure the ability to maintain currency in the primary MWS (or similar) no matter what school/ staff/ RPA/ ALO assignment is forced upon them. Guarantee I'll never be forced into a dissimilar MWS without my expressed desire.

2. Eliminate 365's.

3. Incentivize the bad deals with guaranteed follow-on's and increased hardship pay. Korea isn't going away, but it doesn't have to be so painful to go.

4. Re-establish the aviation culture of the Air Force. Celebrate the heritage we've earned, and not relegate it to the back room of the squadron. Analogous to "Every Marine a Rifleman", find and grow a common foundation for support airmen to understand that each and every action they take should be focused towards enabling that jet to get airborne.

5. The Bonus needs to go up. How much, I don't know. Tie it to some sort of inflationary index. $25k/year for decades without any raise for inflation is just insulting.

...Rant off.

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On 2/7/2018 at 6:26 AM, HeloDude said:

Wait--what??  Where are you getting these numbers?  Show me the retirement math for a 20-yr Major vs a 20-yr Lt Col living until 85...

 

On 2/7/2018 at 10:45 AM, di1630 said:


Today the diff between a maj and ltc retiring at 20 years is ~$6k before taxes. Over 40 years that’s $240kish....hardly half mil

Copy. Quarter mil. Show me the money.

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On 2/6/2018 at 6:45 PM, BADFNZ said:

There's really no benefit to Big Blue promoting you to Lt Col in this instance.  You're already locked in for 20 and you're not going to be a CC, so why would they voluntarily give you more money?  This just sounds like classic AF carrot dangling. 

I don't understand how the big blue can seriously lock folks in for 20 as Majors. Title 10 law states you will be discharged if you fail to make rank, unless offered continuation, which the member can decline. AFI also reflects this (but don't expect MPF to explain this to you).

10 U.S. Code § 632 - Effect of failure of selection for promotion:  

"each officer of the Air Force,  on the active-duty list who holds the grade of major, who has failed of selection for promotion to the next higher grade for the second time and whose name is not on a list of officers recommended for promotion to the next higher grade shall be discharged".

 

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I don't understand how the big blue can seriously lock folks in for 20 as Majors. Title 10 law states you will be discharged if you fail to make rank, unless offered continuation, which the member can decline. AFI also reflects this (but don't expect MPF to explain this to you).
10 U.S. Code § 632 - Effect of failure of selection for promotion:  
"each officer of the Air Force,  on the active-duty list who holds the grade of major, who has failed of selection for promotion to the next higher grade for the second time and whose name is not on a list of officers recommended for promotion to the next higher grade shall be discharged".
 
I think that's probably why they're proposing to delay IPZ for fly only track: IPZ @16 years, 1 ABZ @ 17years. By delaying the board, fly-only majors don't get passed over until later. They're making the bet that people won't bail at 17.5 years when retirement is just one assignment away.

You can't be passed over twice if you never go to the promotion board...
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I think that's probably why they're proposing to delay IPZ for fly only track: IPZ @16 years, 1 ABZ @ 17years. By delaying the board, fly-only majors don't get passed over until later. They're making the bet that people won't bail at 17.5 years when retirement is just one assignment away.

You can't be passed over twice if you never go to the promotion board...


Except there will be people on BRS and not a lot on the conventional retirement plan that have to make 20 at that point.
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Except there will be people on BRS and not a lot on the conventional retirement plan that have to make 20 at that point.
40% + Tricare for making it to 20 under BRS still might make enough people reconsider getting out at 17 years. On the other hand, BRS might convince more people to get out at the end of their UPT commitment because they can take their matched TSP with them, making this discussion a moot point.
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On 2/6/2018 at 12:59 PM, matmacwc said:

Stan Evil and Chief of safety are used as holding grounds for future CC’s on active duty, doubt a flying only dude would get it.

I’ve seen plenty Chiefs of Safety in the CC holding pattern, but never in stan/eval. Have the stan/eval future CCs been worth a shit as opposed to the Safety, or is it all the same level of CYA and inability to make a decision that we’ve come to expect of a typical Sq/CC?

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3 hours ago, jazzdude said:

BRS might convince more people to get out at the end of their UPT commitment

This.  Why would any pilot on the BRS look at their potential in the private sector/airlines and NOT get out after their UPT ADSC?

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I agree it still says $35k for 2019.

If I'm reading it correctly, it also says that CGOs at Klamath falls in the 173rd get $400 a month for "assignment incentive pay", and that this year they are starting the same thing for Creech. Can anyone confirm that the Air Force is paying people extra money for these assignments, beyond whatever adjustments BAH covers?  

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I agree it still says $35k for 2019.
If I'm reading it correctly, it also says that CGOs at Klamath falls in the 173rd get $400 a month for "assignment incentive pay", and that this year they are starting the same thing for Creech. Can anyone confirm that the Air Force is paying people extra money for these assignments, beyond whatever adjustments BAH covers?  

I’ll gladly take back pay for my Creech assignment. $400/mo would have been over $20k. Now it just makes me even angrier and want to separate even more. AIP ended right before I got there and now that I’ve left it’s coming back. Damn you Air Force.
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On 2/18/2018 at 10:50 AM, i.o.w.a said:

If I'm reading it correctly, it also says that CGOs at Klamath falls in the 173rd get $400 a month for "assignment incentive pay", and that this year they are starting the same thing for Creech. Can anyone confirm that the Air Force is paying people extra money for these assignments, beyond whatever adjustments BAH covers?  

I remember when AIP went away the first time at Creech. Leadership's line was that we built a dining hall, you have a gas station and gym, so you don't need it anymore. And by the way it will save the AF a million dollars a month by stopping it.

I don't think the extra $400 a month is going to change my stay/go calculation but I'll take the money. 

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"AFSOC Air Operations Flight Assignment Incentive Pay - Authorized by Title 37 U.S.C., Section 352 and the Secretary of the Air Force for personnel assigned to HQ AF Special Operations Command unit (PAS Code BP0VFX3H), assigned to UMD identified operator positions, and have successfully completed the unit's required initial training course. Paid at $750/month for personnel who have a post-training cumulative unit assignment time of less than 36 months; and $1000/month for personnel who have a post-training cumulative unit assignment time of 36 months or more."

 

Umm, surely I'm missing something here.  Are we paying people on the staff, people in some secret squirrel unit, or everybody?  

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"The Air Force takes a balanced approach to maintain core capabilities and is committed to providing the competitive military compensation necessary to recruit and retain high quality and experienced Airmen..."

Is this a satire document? 

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Edited by FourFans130
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On 2/11/2018 at 10:42 PM, Herkasaurus said:

I’ve seen plenty Chiefs of Safety in the CC holding pattern, but never in stan/eval. Have the stan/eval future CCs been worth a shit as opposed to the Safety, or is it all the same level of CYA and inability to make a decision that we’ve come to expect of a typical Sq/CC?

I've often seen both used as a holding pattern for a guy who never made commander and is now waiting out retirement. Could go either way.

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

I've often seen both used as a holding pattern for a guy who never made commander and is now waiting out retirement. Could go either way.

Chief of Safety is designed to be a Sq CC/DO or a former Sq CC. The AF did this on purpose because they wanted someone who wouldn't go ROAD running the Safety program/have someone who is a peer with the flying Sq CCs.

AFI91-202

2.1.1.1. Active duty military COS will be selected from a current or previous Squadron Commander/Director of Operations/Chief of Safety list; or be a former Squadron Commander. MAJCOM/CV or above has waiver authority for this requirement. (T-2) 

 

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