FourFans Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, ihtfp06 said: .... Air Force is going to have a really tough time fighting and winning once we run out of qualified individuals wanting to fly. I second your notion, but let's be clear. There is a significant difference between a "qualified individual wanting to fly" and a combat effective pilot who maintains a skill level actually needed to compete with peer adversaries. The former is a FAIP. The latter is already endangered in today's Air Force. The USAF is digging a new hole inside one that it's already been digging for years. We're at the point that simply having someone willing to fly, regardless of actual skill level, is considered a win. Edited May 25, 2017 by FourFans130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Mods, can we put this retarded conversation about an LT measuring his wife's legitimacy via credit score where it belongs - in the WTF thread? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 8 minutes ago, ViperStud said: Mods, can we put this retarded conversation about an LT measuring his wife's legitimacy via credit score where it belongs - in the WTF thread? Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 11 hours ago, ViperStud said: Mods, can we put this retarded conversation about an LT measuring his wife's legitimacy via credit score where it belongs - in the WTF thread? Valid. Retarded conversation removed. If you guys would like to continue the BAH/finance/marital advice discussion, search for an existing thread or start a new one. Redirect discussion back to the bonus (or lack thereof at this point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs-N-Guns Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 123 days remain in FY17, still no ARP. I wonder how many fence sitters have punched out rather than take another PCS ADSC waiting for a decision on the bonus amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Dogs-N-Guns said: 123 days remain in FY17, still no ARP. I wonder how many fence sitters have punched out rather than take another PCS ADSC waiting for a decision on the bonus amount. Zero? The bonus doesn't keep many people in that weren't going to stay anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs-N-Guns Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I pieced together a good deal that minimized my exposure to BS. The bonus was part of the equation. I was also late rated, which put me a couple years closer to 20 than other pilots at the decision point. I'm in the "it's not just about the money" crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Termy Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It is absolutely stunning to me it will be June tomorrow and it still isn't out. I don't buy the "it's because there isn't a budget yet" argument whatsoever. I still put this squarely on the Air Force. If it were a priority, some flag officer would have made sure this gets included in the CR or attached with other spending. Rumor has it the 15 year TAFMS restriction will still be in place for AFRC folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Held up at SASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It is absolutely stunning to me it will be June tomorrow and it still isn't out. I don't buy the "it's because there isn't a budget yet" argument whatsoever. I still put this squarely on the Air Force. If it were a priority, some flag officer would have made sure this gets included in the CR or attached with other spending. Rumor has it the 15 year TAFMS restriction will still be in place for AFRC folks. I got some more info...paraphrase to protect the innocent:The Senate Armed Services Committee has questions about retention they want answered before they allow the Air Force to release this bonus. It is not due to budget issues as I previously stated.Reading between the lines...AF tells Congress that they need to throw more money at the problem. Panel of aviators recently told Congress "it isn't about the money." So, Congress doesn't want to spend the money since they don't think it will fix aviator retention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LookieRookie Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said: I got some more info...paraphrase to protect the innocent: The Senate Armed Services Committee has questions about retention they want answered before they allow the Air Force to release this bonus. It is not due to budget issues as I previously stated. Reading between the lines...AF tells Congress that they need to throw more money at the problem. Panel of aviators recently told Congress "it isn't about the money." So, Congress doesn't want to spend the money since they don't think it will fix aviator retention. That's no bueno. Even making a flying squadron have a fully staffed CSS, there's the fact of deployments, lack of assignment control, just general AF buffoonery. It's hard to not go to the airlines from a pure finance/QoL standpoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 It is absolutely stunning to me it will be June tomorrow and it still isn't out. I don't buy the "it's because there isn't a budget yet" argument whatsoever. I still put this squarely on the Air Force. If it were a priority, some flag officer would have made sure this gets included in the CR or attached with other spending. Rumor has it the 15 year TAFMS restriction will still be in place for AFRC folks. I think they're delaying because if they fail to release it at $35K, they will have severe blowback. Maybe most bonus takers would still take it at 25, but some will be, understandably, pissed off. It also furthers the message that HAF can't get their shit together. If they can't get funding for an amount that Congress already authorized, how are they supposed to make any of the other fundamental changes needed to improve retention? Rolled-up sleeves and CSS are a laughable start. If they can't offer the 35 this year, they'd better consider offering the rumored 1 and 2 year options. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said: So, Congress doesn't want to spend the money since they don't think it will fix aviator retention. This is exactly what the "it's not about the money" line gets you. Of course it's about the money. It's also about some other stuff. So let's stop saying its not about the money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 This is exactly what the "it's not about the money" line gets you. Of course it's about the money. It's also about some other stuff. So let's stop saying its not about the money. If money is unimportant, the pay charts on airlinepilotcentral wouldn't be frequented on .mil computers during the workday...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazmo Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 If money is unimportant, the pay charts on airlinepilotcentral wouldn't be frequented on .mil computers during the workday...Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEvery career has its attractive qualities. Getting rich was really never an attraction for me when I decided to join the military and I'd be willing to bet just about everyone here can agree. Flying cool Jets and executing the mission in the world's best Air Force was by far my number one reason. Is the money decent as an officer in the military? Yes. For the airlines on the other hand the attractiveness is very few days at work for a lot of dollars in the bank. Flying a bunch of whiny grumpy passengers around the world is not something I'm looking forward to. Eating airport food is not something I'm looking forward to.Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedont Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Gazmo said: Every career has its attractive qualities. Getting rich was really never an attraction for me when I decided to join the military and I'd be willing to bet just about everyone here can agree. Flying cool Jets and executing the mission in the world's best Air Force was by far my number one reason. Is the money decent as an officer in the military? Yes. For the airlines on the other hand the attractiveness is very few days at work for a lot of dollars in the bank. Flying a bunch of whiny grumpy passengers around the world is not something I'm looking forward to. Eating airport food is not something I'm looking forward to. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk Minneapolis had a sushi bar in their airport. I didn't join for the money either. Yet, I turned down the bonus hoping for a 1-2 year option. Asking me for 5 years is like offering me $100K for my dog. It ain't happening. Edited May 31, 2017 by hatedont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyusaf83 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Money is the easy fix. The other problems causing the exodus are much more engrained in the AF bureaucracy. So if the AF isn't able to accomplish the easy part of the equation, just how in the hell do they expect us to believe they'll fix the more complex issues? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 31 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said: Money is the easy fix. The other problems causing the exodus are much more engrained in the AF bureaucracy. So if the AF isn't able to accomplish the easy part of the equation, just how in the hell do they expect us to believe they'll fix the more complex issues? Ditto! The dam is broken and the money/bonus is one of the nearest sandbags the village management (AF) can stack against the hole. Would those $$ sandbags stop all the concerned villagers from leaving? No, it will not but it will give some of them pause that those in charge of the village realize the situation is dire. Those $$ sandbags will also help change the narrative that management actually cares about this damn village and just maybe some of those concerned villagers will remain as management keeps plugging the hole with more of the easier fixes as they work out the hard "bureaucratic" ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 54 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said: Money is the easy fix Obviously not easy enough since the pay hasn't changed in a generation. The bonus to 20 YAS was a good start but the DoD and AF need to address fly pay, you know, the pay you get every month to make your job comparable to non AF flying. I get that nobody wants to say they joined for the money. I joined for the money. I also joined to get a retirement at 20 years. I also love my country but I don't work for free. There is a price where the AF would stop bleeding talent. They are either unable or unwilling to pay for it. Fix the money. Then fix the rest of the stupid stuff. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk1313 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, hatedont said: Minneapolis had a sushi bar in their airport. I didn't join for the money either. Yet, I turned down the bonus hoping for a 1-2 year option. Asking me for 5 years is like offering me $100K for my dog. It ain't happening. So you said "no2bonus"? Hmm... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Minneapolis had a sushi bar in their airport. I didn't join for the money either. Yet, I turned down the bonus hoping for a 1-2 year option. Asking me for 5 years is like offering me $100K for my dog. It ain't happening.100k for a dog? And you wouldn't take that? Your post in the other thread was equally head scratching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 So if the AF isn't able to accomplish the easy part of the equation, just how in the hell do they expect us to believe they'll fix the more complex issues? ...if I can't trust you to do the small things, how am I going to trust you to do the big stuff? Bendy Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Not sure if high or stupid... lolSent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, tk1313 said: So you said "no2bonus"? Hmm... It's a good thing for him there's no boots on the ramp policy, or else he "cantfly" Edit to add: I just noticed that cantfly has been giving positive reputation to hatedont. Nice try dude, stop liking your own posts. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited June 1, 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatedont Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Warrior said: 100k for a dog? And you wouldn't take that? Your post in the other thread was equally head scratching. No, why would I sell my hound for $100K. Would you sell your kid for $100K? Edited June 1, 2017 by hatedont 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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