Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[joe1234]

19 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Our pay/rank system is antiquated. I'm worth more to the AF as an 11F than a similar-aged SkyCop, LRS officer or personellist.

Honestly that was my biggest problem. Being told over and over again that we're all the same and contribute equally. I'm not saying pilots have to be treated like divas, but when you're competing a 11F and a loggie in the same bucket, and then pass over the fighter dude who was 1000x more costly to train in the name of fairness, then your flying organization is hopelessly fucked.

That would be like a hospital firing neurosurgeons and cardiologists to make room for more accountants and HR people because they had more volunteer hours and face time with the administration.

The brass is starting to painfully admit that the line pilots are their rainmakers. Hopefully the young dudes get a better deal than we got. But I do reserve the right to take such joy and happiness in seeing these generals squirm and suffer in the process.

[SurelySerious]

That would be like a hospital firing neurosurgeons and cardiologists to make room for more accountants and HR people because they had more volunteer hours and face time with the administration.

[Duck]

As long as they don't "fix the glitch" before I get out...


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[Guest No2bonus]

On 4/6/2017 at 7:31 PM, Kenny Powers said:

 

Isn't that something everyone is wishing their leadership would be doing?

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From your perspective you want leadership to be forthright when asked, which is definitely true. I'm talking about those from the Snapchat, Twitter, and YouTube culture who always say what's on their minds 100% unfiltered. Go to YouTube and read the comment sections if you want to see what type of culture I'm talking about. Multiply those types of personalities times 4 in a tactics shop or while trying to instruct on a sortie.

Some people need to really think about what they say before opening their mouth. If people speak their mind 100% of the time and without filters is going to cause issues following orders and maintaining good discipline. Not to mention the Twitter and Snapchat culture haven't learned how to speak with tact and remove emotional aspects from their verbal communication skills. Why? Because the younger generation has grown accustom to texting friends sitting at the same table as them. I think we can all agree verbal and written communication is somewhat important.

I'm coming from the days when AF leaders could curse you the hell out and threaten you. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by No2bonus

[uhhello]

58 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

From your perspective you want leadership to be forthright when asked, which is definitely true. I'm talking about those from the Snapchat, Twitter, and YouTube culture who always say what's on their minds 100% unfiltered. Go to YouTube and read the comment sections if you want to see what type of culture I'm talking about. Multiply those types of personalities times 4 in a tactics shop or while trying to instruct on a sortie.

Some people need to really think about what they say before opening their mouth. If people speak their mind 100% of the time and without filters is going to cause issues following orders and maintaining good discipline. Not to mention the Twitter and Snapchat culture haven't learned how to speak with tact and remove emotional aspects from their verbal communication skills. Why? Because the younger generation has grown accustom to texting friends sitting at the same table as them. I think we can all agree verbal and written communication is somewhat important.

I'm coming from the days when AF leaders could curse you the hell out and threaten you. 

 

Thank you for your perspective and service.  

[ViperMan]

7 hours ago, No2bonus said:

From your perspective you want leadership to be forthright when asked, which is definitely true. I'm talking about those from the Snapchat, Twitter, and YouTube culture who always say what's on their minds 100% unfiltered. Go to YouTube and read the comment sections if you want to see what type of culture I'm talking about. Multiply those types of personalities times 4 in a tactics shop or while trying to instruct on a sortie.

Some people need to really think about what they say before opening their mouth. If people speak their mind 100% of the time and without filters is going to cause issues following orders and maintaining good discipline. Not to mention the Twitter and Snapchat culture haven't learned how to speak with tact and remove emotional aspects from their verbal communication skills. Why? Because the younger generation has grown accustom to texting friends sitting at the same table as them. I think we can all agree verbal and written communication is somewhat important.

I'm coming from the days when AF leaders could curse you the hell out and threaten you.

Ever heard of a "no-stepper"? Try it out sometime. It'll fix SNAPs pretty quick. And, it can be fairly therapeutic:

 

[pawnman]

On 4/6/2017 at 8:39 AM, No2bonus said:

A bonus is necessary. Some enlisted career fields receive a reenlistment bonus too. If the AF functioned as intended and stopped offering a bonus across the board, we would hemorrhage enlisted and officers. You don't think money or a bonus matters? I ask E's if they are interested in becoming aviators. All the E's I spoke with said they would only fly RPAs and that's only if they receive equal pay to an officer.

I can't speak for everyone, but take away the bonus for pilots and watch how many leave at the end of their commitment.

The same number that are leaving at the end of their commitment now, I would guess.  If the bonus were an effective tool, we wouldn't be looking at a shortage of over 1000 pilots.

[Guest No2bonus]

54 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Ever heard of a "no-stepper"? Try it out sometime. It'll fix SNAPs pretty quick. And, it can be fairly therapeutic:

I've never had an issue, but thank you. I have just noticed how some of the younger airmen and officers are a bit more unfiltered. It seems to be tolerated by some and quickly becoming the norm.

[Gazmo]

You can't put a price tag on a better QOL and a chance to move on and do something different.

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[Guest No2bonus]

32 minutes ago, pawnman said:

The same number that are leaving at the end of their commitment now, I would guess.  If the bonus were an effective tool, we wouldn't be looking at a shortage of over 1000 pilots.

When you get to the end of your career in the AF do you guys find yourself speaking a little less? I guess I'm to the point where I care, but I'm not going to get my blood pressure raised over an issue. I say to myself, "Meh..2020 I'm done" and my brain goes off into a different dimension.

[Guest No2bonus]

5 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

You can't put a price tag on a better QOL and a chance to move on and do something different.

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I learned that from reading what you guts write on this forum and from a few guys who left for the airlines. Granted, one retired medically, another was riffed, and the last guy got out. Two of the guys said we didn't want you to suffer like we did after taking the money.

[MooseAg03]

When you get to the end of your career in the AF do you guys find yourself speaking a little less? I guess I'm to the point where I care, but I'm not going to get my blood pressure raised over an issue. I say to myself, "Meh..2020 I'm done" and my brain goes off into a different dimension.

I say that everyday when I'm given more and more crap to take care of. Except mine is "2019 I'm done." Making plans to move back home and put active duty behind me have done wonders for my stress level and general outlook on life.


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[pawnman]

48 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

When you get to the end of your career in the AF do you guys find yourself speaking a little less? I guess I'm to the point where I care, but I'm not going to get my blood pressure raised over an issue. I say to myself, "Meh..2020 I'm done" and my brain goes off into a different dimension.

All the pilots I know are talking about how to get airline jobs.  They're either retiring, or separating, and while a few are going ANG or Reserve, there's a fair number that are getting out entirely.

As for the "get back to winning and you won't need a bonus"...ask yourself what it is that the Air Force has done to make a job every kid wants to do and turn it into a job that people refuse to do for a $400K bonus on top of an already decent paycheck?  THAT is where you'll solve the pilot retention problem.  Not with money, because money will only buy so much happiness and there are plenty of good jobs on the outside for college educated, quick-thinking, cool under pressure candidates.  Until the AF starts improving QOL, you're probably going to see the pilot shortage continue.  It's not even about winning, in my estimation...it's about showing guys that leadership understands that aircraft and the guys who fly them are the backbone of the force, and we aren't actually equal with the guy checking ID cards at the gate. 

[Guest No2bonus]

19 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

 

I say that everyday when I'm given more and more crap to take care of. Except mine is "2019 I'm done." Making plans to move back home and put active duty behind me have done wonders for my stress level and general outlook on life.


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Lol...thanks for confirming I'm not the only one.

[Guest No2bonus]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

All the pilots I know are talking about how to get airline jobs.  They're either retiring, or separating, and while a few are going ANG or Reserve, there's a fair number that are getting out entirely.

As for the "get back to winning and you won't need a bonus"...ask yourself what it is that the Air Force has done to make a job every kid wants to do and turn it into a job that people refuse to do for a $400K bonus on top of an already decent paycheck?  THAT is where you'll solve the pilot retention problem.  Not with money, because money will only buy so much happiness and there are plenty of good jobs on the outside for college educated, quick-thinking, cool under pressure candidates.  Until the AF starts improving QOL, you're probably going to see the pilot shortage continue.  It's not even about winning, in my estimation...it's about showing guys that leadership understands that aircraft and the guys who fly them are the backbone of the force, and we aren't actually equal with the guy checking ID cards at the gate. 

I 100% agree. I think AF leadership downplayed our morale levels and QOL in general. Ultimately, they forgot what its like to be at our level in the food chain. Times have changed and so have family dynamics. Divorce was frowned upon back in the day of most general officers. Now, you have to either sacrifice your family or the AF. Nobody is going to chose the AF over their family. 

I did read part of former SECDEF Gates book. Military leadership told him if we surged and deployed people for a year it would break up marriages and have a negative impact on all the branches. They warned him and look what happened to the divorce rate in the branches after the surges in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Edited April 8, 2017 by No2bonus

[Jaded]

40 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

I 100% agree. I think AF leadership downplayed the our morale levels and QOL in general. Ultimately, they forgot what its like to be at our level in the food chain. Times have changed and so have family dynamics. Divorce was frowned upon back in the day of most general officers. Now, you have to either sacrifice your family or the AF. Nobody is going to chose the AF over their family. 

I did read part of former SECDEF Gates book. Military leadership told him if we surged and deployed people for a year it would break up marriages and have a negative impact on all the branches. They warned him and look what happened to the divorce rate in the branches after the surges in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

54 minutes ago, No2bonus said:

Lol...thanks for confirming I'm not the only one.

 

1 hour ago, No2bonus said:

I learned that from reading what you guts write on this forum and from a few guys who left for the airlines. Granted, one retired medically, another was riffed, and the last guy got out. Two of the guys said we didn't want you to suffer like we did after taking the money.

 

2 hours ago, No2bonus said:

When you get to the end of your career in the AF do you guys find yourself speaking a little less? I guess I'm to the point where I care, but I'm not going to get my blood pressure raised over an issue. I say to myself, "Meh..2020 I'm done" and my brain goes off into a different dimension.

Is this your first time using a Forum? You can reply to multiple people or multiple posts with one of your own.

[Guest]

Is this your first time using a Forum? You can reply to multiple people or multiple posts with one of your own.

I think scoobs might have gotten a new username...


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[Duck]

. Now, you have to either sacrifice your family or the AF. Nobody is going to chose the AF over their family. 

I disagree, as I see it all the time. For some people choosing the AF carrot has become such a habit, they don't even realize it anymore. How many O-6s are still on their first wife? Of those, how many does the wife wear the rank just as much as the husband?


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[Bender]

When you get to the end of your career in the AF do you guys find yourself speaking a little less? I guess I'm to the point where I care, but I'm not going to get my blood pressure raised over an issue. I say to myself, "Meh..2020 I'm done" and my brain goes off into a different dimension.

Probably has something to do with why you can't lead your kids.

Bendy


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[matmacwc]

8 hours ago, No2bonus said:

I've never had an issue, but thank you. I have just noticed how some of the younger airmen and officers are a bit more unfiltered. It seems to be tolerated by some and quickly becoming the norm.

Do you drink?

[Clark Griswold]

5 hours ago, Duck said:

How many O-6s are still on their first wife? 

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I know a few but they are usually not Line officers, of the Line O-6s I know I guess around 60%+ are single or on wife 2 or 3 in some rare cases.  

That raises the interesting question why the Line has become expected or accustomed to selling our souls when other communities don't but they seem to have as much rank, prestige and leadership in the AF.  

Is it because we are all type A's and a consequence of just the competitiveness amongst that set or are we held to unrealistic career / QOL standards?

[Bender]

It's fairly clear, if you want to be perpetually at war...drafting/conscription is necessary. If you just want to shit up and stop, a volunteer force more than happy to comply (knowing casualty is possible).

I love taking care of the "kids". They are far from it. I don't want to deploy. I don't want to be away from my kids. When I am, I'm going with someone else's kids...as an FGO. There is plenty of reason for to be here...plenty beyond money. I like money. I want money. The airlines are offering lots of money. I'm staying here for now. I want to motivate, lead, and win. I don't care that you're better, but are leaving...haha , "thanks for your service."

If you aren't running for public office once you leave, I think you should shut your face. At a minimum you should be conspiring to lobby congress...MOAA or whatever...too much talk, no action...just as bad as the bottom of barrel.

I agree there is a hideous problem here...if you want to bail out of it...don't blame you. Don't just talk, do something to pressure change.

If we stay "at war" we won't change anything...we're just a dude trapped in the car before it's completely filled with water...just sucks it has to fill before we can get out. I hope the cost of having to wait for it isn't too large.

Bendy


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[matmacwc]

Nothing to give, but don't take the money, other than I wanted to be the pic on all of the General discussion board.

[pilotguy]

any chance they will give the BRS continuation bonus to pilots before the approximate 9 year mark?  It would be free money at that point with no extension on the ADSC...

[flyusaf83]

42 minutes ago, pilotguy said:

any chance they will give the BRS continuation bonus to pilots before the approximate 9 year mark?  It would be free money at that point with no extension on the ADSC...

What kind of ADSC does that encur?